Surprise! Red Tier Now Begins Sunday; Downtown Disney Restaurants???

[CaptinEO]

As a former themepark employee, I never considered myself high on the totem pole and in my head it was a basic job that I was intending to move from once I got enough work experience (which I did).

I think the same can be said for any entry level job, such as working in a retail store. I've heard many horror stories from friends that worked in retail and it made the themepark work seem like nothing.

The days of working in the park and then becoming an executive for the Disney company are long gone. It's a job you have to jump from sooner or later or you risk getting stuck in a rut.

Not trying to disrespect anyone in these jobs, they are tough jobs and don't pay a lot and I've certainly been there before.

 

[el_super]

Also worth noting is Chapek's language regarding the reopening of the parks has changed:

“In terms of the outlook for the parks for the rest of the year and the capacity, it’s really going to be determined by the rate of vaccination of the public,” Chapek said on the call. “That seems like the biggest lever that we can have in order to either take the parks that are currently under limited capacity and increase it or open up parks that are currently closed.”​

​

Disneyland will stay closed for at least another 1 or 2 months, says Disney CFO

In total, Disneyland is expected to be closed for more than a year, Chief Financial Officer Christine McCarthy says.

www.ocregister.com

​

​

Chapek/Disney's stance seems to have changed here. No more blaming. No threats of lawsuits. No pounding shoes on tables.

Like it or not, he's absolutely right here. The time for second guessing public health policies has long since past. What is done, is done. The focus now needs to be on making sure vaccines get deployed, and keeping people safe until they can get their vaccines.

Rather than blaming Disney for being so slow to respond, I will give Chapek and Company a lot of credit for seeing the light and doing their part. The Incredibles campaign they launched has been so omnipresent in Orange County, with Disney's ads appearing on billboards and busses all over Anaheim and beyond.

View attachment 531564

Lending out the Katella parking lot, has been great in promoting vaccinations, and the site has been the focus of vaccination efforts in Orange County, in part, due to the association with Disney.

Hopefully this will take us down to the finish line and get this thing done. OC's infection numbers have started to go back up, as would be expected with the lifting of the stay-at-home order, and the resumption of outdoor dining, but hopefully this will not near the same explosive growth we saw during the holidays. With more and more getting vaccinated every day, the closer we come to this finally being over for good.

 

[CaptinEO]

Also worth noting is Chapek's language regarding the reopening of the parks has changed:

“In terms of the outlook for the parks for the rest of the year and the capacity, it’s really going to be determined by the rate of vaccination of the public,” Chapek said on the call. “That seems like the biggest lever that we can have in order to either take the parks that are currently under limited capacity and increase it or open up parks that are currently closed.”​

​

Disneyland will stay closed for at least another 1 or 2 months, says Disney CFO

In total, Disneyland is expected to be closed for more than a year, Chief Financial Officer Christine McCarthy says.

www.ocregister.com

​

​

Chapek/Disney's stance seems to have changed here. No more blaming. No threats of lawsuits. No pounding shoes on tables.

Like it or not, he's absolutely right here. The time for second guessing public health policies has long since past. What is done, is done. The focus now needs to be on making sure vaccines get deployed, and keeping people safe until they can get their vaccines.

Rather than blaming Disney for being so slow to respond, I will give Chapek and Company a lot of credit for seeing the light and doing their part. The Incredibles campaign they launched has been so omnipresent in Orange County, with Disney's ads appearing on billboards and busses all over Anaheim and beyond.

View attachment 531564

Lending out the Katella parking lot, has been great in promoting vaccinations, and the site has been the focus of vaccination efforts in Orange County, in part, due to the association with Disney.

Hopefully this will take us down to the finish line and get this thing done. OC's infection numbers have started to go back up, as would be expected with the lifting of the stay-at-home order, and the resumption of outdoor dining, but hopefully this will not near the same explosive growth we saw during the holidays. With more and more getting vaccinated every day, the closer we come to this finally being over for good.

I mean there is a clear end in sight now, it's just a matter of when, not if. That's why Disney's policies have shifted so much.

Their "public health" campaigns that tell people the same thing we've had to do for a year now (just with Disney characters this time) are just done to get cozy with the state and country officials who vote on these things.

Their vaccination sites are most likely to be used as a business tax write off.

Not saying these things aren't positive to the
community, but with Disney every dollar spent has to account for something.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I mean there is a clear end in sight now, it's just a matter of when, not if. That's why Disney's policies have shifted so much.

Their "public health" campaigns that tell people the same thing we've had to do for a year now (just with Disney characters this time) are just done to get cozy with the state and country officials who vote on these things.

Their vaccination sites are most likely to be used as a business tax write off.

Not saying these things aren't positive to the
community, but with Disney every dollar spent has to account for something.

Of course there is a benefit for Disney but it’s a better use of money than conference calls where they make empty threats.

 

[flutas]

As a former themepark employee, I never considered myself high on the totem pole and in my head it was a basic job that I was intending to move from once I got enough work experience (which I did).

I think the same can be said for any entry level job, such as working in a retail store. I've heard many horror stories from friends that worked in retail and it made the themepark work seem like nothing.

The days of working in the park and then becoming an executive for the Disney company are long gone. It's a job you have to jump from sooner or later or you risk getting stuck in a rut.

Not trying to disrespect anyone in these jobs, they are tough jobs and don't pay a lot and I've certainly been there before.

I fully agree, I just think to dismiss the CMs as "button pushers and telling people to stand behind the line" belittles them to the point of almost dehumanizing them, which could explain some of the issues we see with people not taking anything they say seriously in the parks anymore and the lack of enthusiastic CMs anymore.

 

[October82]

I fully agree, I just think to dismiss the CMs as "button pushers and telling people to stand behind the line" belittles them to the point of almost dehumanizing them, which could explain some of the issues we see with people not taking anything they say seriously in the parks anymore and the lack of enthusiastic CMs anymore.

The way we talk about service industry jobs, in general, is dehumanizing. Phrases like "low skilled" are part of the common parlance, and while they're descriptive in an academic context, in practice, they de-value the labor of people from already marginalized communities. Service industry jobs, whether that's at Disney or anywhere else, are physically and mentally challenging. People who work them deserve respect and common courtesy (and a living wage, but that's another topic).

 

[Travel Junkie]

So now that LA County and San Diego County couldn't provide in court any Science & Data to back up their claim that outdoor dining spreads Covid, you are cool with outdoor dining? Or are you still sticking with that preconceived idea that has no science or data behind it?

I and others have posted articles that do include studies and interviews with experts that point to outdoor dining causing spread. Obviously you ignored all of those which was exactly my point. You make a blanket statement like the above, multiple people respond with evidence contrary to your statement, and then you ignore it and continue to say the same statement that was proven to be false. Rinse, repeat.

Or are you one of the fashionable ones who wants to move to Canada because the United States is a terrible country? Make sure you get all your shots before you land in Vancouver.

Proving my point about painting anyone that disagrees with you in an extremist light. No one is in the camp you describe. A recent study concludes that 40% of Covid deaths in the US could have been prevented. The US deserves criticism. That doesn't mean the US is a terrible country. It handled this crisis poorly and we should acknowledge it.

 

[TP2000]

When I was newer to the forums years ago, I extended multiple invitations to you for meet-ups at the park through PMs, to which you never responded and therefore declined them all.

Wait, you sent me direct PM's with that little mail envelope feature on the upper right, and I never even responded to you? I don't remember that at all, but I believe you if you say it happened, and I sincerely apologize for being so rude as to not even respond to a kind invitation. And rest assured, my etiquette obsessed mother is rolling over in her grave right now!

If I had seen the little invitation, I would have let you know that I don't enjoy attending park meetups. (Or in reality, I would have made up a polite excuse why I couldn't attend, as one does.)

The last park meet I went to was around 1997 or 1998 in the Hub on a Sunday at Noon. Those were just starting at that time. I remember seeing Darkbeer there, and Al Lutz was holding court with a gaggle of fans around him, but I got stuck talking to a woman who went by the handle "Cold Dead Fish" and it was all a bit socially awkward. No one was impolite, but it was just... kind of weird. That was the last one I went to.

I've socialized over cocktails/meal in real life with a couple of old friends who are here, and since 2019 I've had a lot of newer friends who I now chat with using the PM envelope tab at screen right. But I don't really go to big group meets, it's just not my scene. I hope that helps explain the lapse in etiquette that made me ignore any invitation you extended me! I'm truly, sincerely sorry for that.

 

[TP2000]

The way we talk about service industry jobs, in general, is dehumanizing. Phrases like "low skilled" are part of the common parlance, and while they're descriptive in an academic context, in practice, they de-value the labor of people from already marginalized communities. Service industry jobs, whether that's at Disney or anywhere else, are physically and mentally challenging. People who work them deserve respect and common courtesy (and a living wage, but that's another topic).

What do you suggest we call front-line, entry-level employees then?

Take my new friend Carly who gave me the wildly unauthorized 30% discount last night that I wrote about earlier. She's working the customer service desk in a dying Big Box store, and she didn't look quite old enough to buy beer. I called her an "Entry-Level" employee in my little story. What should I have called her?

Also, take that 17 year old Tomorrowland Terrace busboy I reference so often as "unskilled labor". What should a class of employees be called who have no formal education (perhaps not even a high school diploma yet) and required two or three days of on the job training before they were set loose as a brand new employee? If using the long accepted phrase "unskilled labor" to describe job classifications that require no formal skill is not acceptable any longer, what do we call them?

I mean, words are completely free. We could call Carly a Doctoral Level Psychologist and the busboy could be called a Mechanical Engineer in this bold new world with free words. But I don't think that would be helpful, and some highly skilled psychologists and engineers would probably be upset at that.

So what do we now call entry-level employees working in jobs that require no formal training or education?

 

[TP2000]

I and others have posted articles that do include studies and interviews with experts that point to outdoor dining causing spread. Obviously you ignored all of those which was exactly my point. You make a blanket statement like the above, multiple people respond with evidence contrary to your statement, and then you ignore it and continue to say the same statement that was proven to be false. Rinse, repeat.

I'm sure the LA Times can wrangle up any article it wants interviewing "experts" that support the total ban on restaurants and the complete and sustained closure of all LA public schools until 2022. That's the type of reporting the LA Times does, and has done for decades on a range of political topics.

But if they had any actual scientific evidence, it would have been submitted in court by the County Of Los Angeles legal team. They had no such evidence, and LA County lost the case. Which is my point; there is no science and data that shows outdoor dining is a key contributor to Covid spread. Certainly none that could stand up in court.

Proving my point about painting anyone that disagrees with you in an extremist light. No one is in the camp you describe.

There is one person who has posted in this very thread recently who publicly stated they were actively looking into moving to Canada because they dislike the USA so much. And one other person, also in this thread, who commiserated with them and has made disparaging comments about the USA and implied all other western nations were better than us when it came to Covid; deaths, vaccinations, etc.

The stark and solid data says just the opposite. The United States is far, far ahead of all of Europe, Canada and wealthy Pacific Rim countries when it comes to vaccinations. And several wealthy European countries have higher death tolls per 1 Million citizens than the United States does.

Why that reality backed by hard data would prompt someone to move to a worse off country like Canada is beyond me, but I understand it's a very fashionable opinion to have in some circles today. But the data certainly doesn't support the fashion.

Vaccination Rates As Of February 11th, 2021
United States = 15 Doses Per 100 People, 10.9% Received 1 Dose, 3.6% Received 2 Doses
Canada = 3 Doses Per 100 People, 1.8% Received 1 Dose, 0.6% Received 2 Doses

More Than 12.7 Billion Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker

Bloomberg counted up the shots administered in 184 countries and 59 US states and territories

www.bloomberg.com

A recent study concludes that 40% of Covid deaths in the US could have been prevented. The US deserves criticism. That doesn't mean the US is a terrible country. It handled this crisis poorly and we should acknowledge it.

My main place of blame for Covid is with Communist China. Now that we can identify specific countries to Covid and not be called a racist, (a la' "The UK Strain", "The South Africa Strain", etc.) I'm going to say that without fear of being called a racist. Communist China and the World Health Organization knew about Covid by the fall of 2019, they hid what they knew for months, and stonewalled the world through 2020 as the disease spread beyond China.

That's the first group I blame, and they get most of the blame; the Chinese Communist Party in Beijing. We can blame local and federal governments too. It's been interesting to see how some states succeeded at preventing Covid deaths, and others did not. And now how some states are succeeding wildly with vaccinations, while others have not done well at all.

But perhaps one thing you and I can agree on is that there was definitely not a plan for this. Not at the federal level, and not at the state level. Everyone was making this up as they went along from February, 2020 to June, 2020. Everyone, regardless of whether they were the unfashionable R governor of a poor state like West Virginia, or if they were the fashionable D governor of a rich state like California. No one had a plan, and many still don't.

 

[ayyylmao]

f blame for Covid is with Communist China. Now that we can identify specific countries to Covid and not be called a racist, (a la' "The UK Strain", "The South Africa Strain", etc.) I'm going to say that without fear of being called a racist. Communist China and the World Health Organization knew about Covid by the fall of 2019, they hid what they knew for months, and stonewalled the world through 2020 as the disease spread beyond China.

That's the first group I blame, and they get most of the blame; the Chinese Communist Party in Beijing. We can blame local and federal governments too. It's been interesting to see how some states succeeded at preventing Covid deaths, and others did not. And now how some states are succeeding wildly with vaccinations, while others have not done well at all.

Everyone in the USA needs to watch this



CHINA

 

[TP2000]

As a former themepark employee, I never considered myself high on the totem pole and in my head it was a basic job that I was intending to move from once I got enough work experience (which I did).

I think the same can be said for any entry level job, such as working in a retail store. I've heard many horror stories from friends that worked in retail and it made the themepark work seem like nothing.

The days of working in the park and then becoming an executive for the Disney company are long gone. It's a job you have to jump from sooner or later or you risk getting stuck in a rut.

Not trying to disrespect anyone in these jobs, they are tough jobs and don't pay a lot and I've certainly been there before.

Unless we grew up with the last name Rockefeller, I think all of us have been there before working lousy or boring jobs when we were kids. My first summer job was at 15, on the gardening crew for a swanky university; there were no fancy machines or gas-powered anything, no safety vests or glasses, no timed hydration breaks; just a rake, a shovel, and a wheelbarrow with cracked handles. And water from the hose.

You could have told me I was a highly valued member of the team and called me a Landscape Design Professional, but there was no getting around the fact I was an unskilled laborer working an entry-level job with a shovel.

 

[TP2000]

You yourself were so worked up about how long training would take that they should have opened DLR instantly 10 months ago, if that's the case why do they need training to (as the statement said that you agreed with) "only press buttons and tell people to stand behind a line."

There's nuance there, so I can understand how it gets confusing.

I do not believe it takes any more than 4 or 5 days to train someone at the Jungle Cruise, and probably only 2 or 3 days to train them on the Golden Zephyr or Astro Orbiter. That is the just the plain, simple fact there. And an 18 year can, and does, get hired to do that stuff.

But if Disneyland loses 10,000 of its front-line (is that offensive?) CM's you can almost guarantee that Disneyland will lose the culture and institutional knowledge of its massive Cast that makes it special. It can retrain 4,000 people how to work the small operators console at Astro Orbiter and ask people to pull on the yellow tab 200 times per hour, but it can not train the institutional culture and tribal knowledge that will be lost if a majority of its front-line staff disappear this year.

That is what I worry about.

Ask yourself this, who is going to be on scene first if a fake locomotive derails and crushes someone in the car behind them? Do you think it's going to be "a dockers clad manager" as you like to call them (again with the belittling), a TDA exec (who you always seem to need to talk about their appearances, again belittling them typically), or the front line CM worker "who only needs to know how to press a button and yell at people."

Who's watching the cameras to stop the ride as soon as a guest jumps out of a moving coaster because the guest dropped their phone?

Who's going to be the one having to figure out what to do about a fight going on in toontown?

Who is the person who wades into the water, and pulls boats to the right spot to evacuate Pirates?

Who is the person that has to be trained on proper seating so that Splash doesn't take on too much water?

Who is the person that has to figure out what to do when a Splash log sinks in the middle of the ride?

Sure does seem like a lot more for a frontline CM to be trained for, and deal with than "pushing buttons and telling people to stand behind a yellow line" and yes, I purposefully used examples that have happened at DLR/WDW.

All of those things happen, which is why I purposely used the words "90% of the time" when describing the average Disneyland ride operator as pushing buttons and asking people to pull on their yellow tab. There's 10% of the job that is bizarre and weird and often highly volatile in a very crowded place like Disneyland.

And some of the crap CM's deal with you can't even train for, or at least the Legal department wouldn't let you train an 18 year old to do it lest they open themselves up to litigation when it inevitably goes wrong.

But the fact remains, for almost every front-line job staffed by a CM in a uniform and plastic nametag (ride ops, stores, dining, security, ticketing, custodial, guest services, etc., etc.), the roles are staffed by CM's who need no formal training or education aside from a high school diploma. And then they receive one to two weeks of total training for their jobs, before they get turned loose and put in their own Jungle Cruise boat and told to be funny.

Disneyland routinely hires 17, 18, 19 year old kids fresh off the street to do all of these jobs. This is the simple fact, which is why the jobs are referred to by various established phrasing that many here suddenly find distasteful; front-line, entry-level, unskilled, etc.

Does the 40 year old guy who has been working the Jungle Cruise for 20 years have better timing and presentation than the nervous 18 year old who hired in 2 months ago? You're darn tootin' the veteran almost always does a better job than the kid.

But the fact remains, the 18 year old kid still gets hired and trained to do this job with a week or two of training.

 

[TP2000]

FYI, regarding Canada being a fashionable escape from the horrible USA...

Bloomberg just updated it's vaccination data for Friday. The science & data is now this...

Vaccination Rates as of February 12th, 2021
United States = 15 Doses Per 100 People, 11.2% Received 1 Dose, 3.9% Received 2 Doses
Canada = 3 Doses Per 100 People, 1.8% Received 1 Dose, 0.7% Received 2 Doses

Most of the European Union remains not much better than Canada.

More Than 12.7 Billion Shots Given: Covid-19 Tracker

Bloomberg counted up the shots administered in 184 countries and 59 US states and territories

www.bloomberg.com

 

[TP2000]

Service industry jobs, whether that's at Disney or anywhere else, are physically and mentally challenging. People who work them deserve respect and common courtesy.

On that point, I could not agree with you more!

We appear to only disagree on what exact word or phrasing to call those employees in those jobs.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Wait, you sent me direct PM's with that little mail envelope feature on the upper right, and I never even responded to you? I don't remember that at all, but I believe you if you say it happened, and I sincerely apologize for being so rude as to not even respond to a kind invitation. And rest assured, my etiquette obsessed mother is rolling over in her grave right now!

If I had seen the little invitation, I would have let you know that I don't enjoy attending park meetups. (Or in reality, I would have made up a polite excuse why I couldn't attend, as one does.)

The last park meet I went to was around 1997 or 1998 in the Hub on a Sunday at Noon. Those were just starting at that time. I remember seeing Darkbeer there, and Al Lutz was holding court with a gaggle of fans around him, but I got stuck talking to a woman who went by the handle "Cold Dead Fish" and it was all a bit socially awkward. No one was impolite, but it was just... kind of weird. That was the last one I went to.

I've socialized over cocktails/meal in real life with a couple of old friends who are here, and since 2019 I've had a lot of newer friends who I now chat with using the PM envelope tab at screen right. But I don't really go to big group meets, it's just not my scene. I hope that helps explain the lapse in etiquette that made me ignore any invitation you extended me! I'm truly, sincerely sorry for that.

I sure did. Funnily enough, you responded to PMs that had nothing to do with meet-ups, but never the ones that did. Knowing what I know now, it’s no longer a mystery as to why you never responded.

I never took offense to it.

 

[Sailor310]

As a junior in high school, I was a highly-trained t-shirt folder. Working in a gift store at the base of the killer whale coliseum at Marineland.

 

[Emmanuel]

 

[unmitigated disaster]

What do you suggest we call front-line, entry-level employees then?

Take my new friend Carly who gave me the wildly unauthorized 30% discount last night that I wrote about earlier. She's working the customer service desk in a dying Big Box store, and she didn't look quite old enough to buy beer. I called her an "Entry-Level" employee in my little story. What should I have called her?

Also, take that 17 year old Tomorrowland Terrace busboy I reference so often as "unskilled labor". What should a class of employees be called who have no formal education (perhaps not even a high school diploma yet) and required two or three days of on the job training before they were set loose as a brand new employee? If using the long accepted phrase "unskilled labor" to describe job classifications that require no formal skill is not acceptable any longer, what do we call them?

I mean, words are completely free. We could call Carly a Doctoral Level Psychologist and the busboy could be called a Mechanical Engineer in this bold new world with free words. But I don't think that would be helpful, and some highly skilled psychologists and engineers would probably be upset at that.

So what do we now call entry-level employees working in jobs that require no formal training or education?

Employees. You call them employees. No need to add anything to it.

 

[TP2000]

Employees. You call them employees. No need to add anything to it.

No, there are times we need to add to it. "Employee" is often not descriptive enough for our conversation here.

Specifically, this came up in conversation recently in this forum because we were talking about "living wage" issues and how much CM's earn versus other entry-level, unskilled positions in SoCal.

All employees are not equal when it comes to education, formal training, and skill sets. Some employees are Unskilled, some are Semi-Skilled, some are Skilled employees, and some are Professionals.

Now before I get shouted down as being classist, and before I can return to my table at the Plaza Inn where I yell "You Suck!" at every passing busboy, realize that those four terms were taken just minutes ago from the United States Department of Labor from their website pages describing American labor classes.

In addition, my Google search to the federal government revealed in the employment industry those terms (Unskilled, Skilled, Professional, etc.) are still used widely and without stigma in 2020-2021 by employment agencies and online search tools for employees like Indeed.com, various employment blogs, American trade unions, etc.

What Is Unskilled Labor? | Indeed.com

Learn about unskilled labor and some of the positions included in unskilled labor with job descriptions and national average pay.

www.indeed.com

Skilled Labor Vs. Unskilled Labor | Tradesmen International

What is the skilled labor definition according to experts? Learn the difference between skilled labor vs. unskilled labor on the Tradesmen blog.

www.tradesmeninternational.com

Field Operations Handbook

www.dol.gov