"The FastPass Question"

[MickeyLuv'r]

In some ways I agree that many people don't know how FP works. As I just posted, that was true about paper FP as well.

What confuses me though it the notion repeatedly expressed in this thread that experience and education = trickery or cheating. We all learn from our mistakes and successes.

If someone wants to wing it at WDW, that's fine; I firmly defend everyone's' right to take unplanned vacations, but I also don't resent people who research their vacations in advance.

The parent website of this forum, WDWinfo has been around for over 17 years, as have many other completely free sources of WDW information. Any WDW certified travel agent will happily explain FP to anyone that asks. Friends and neighbors are also almost always happy to share WDW tips.

What also baffles me, is why anyone would belong to a WDW forum if they are opposed to learning tips and information from other people who visit WDW?

 

[aliceismad]

What confuses me though it the notion repeatedly expressed in this thread that experience and education = trickery or cheating. We all learn from our mistakes and successes.

I don't know about anyone in this thread, but regarding FP, people I know in real life blame Disney for not being forthright and being too complicated. Which I think is a valid point. Disney is not always the best at being forthright or advertising all of the available benefits. Disney may actually want it to be complicated because then most people only use their 3 FPs and be done.

 

[rreading]

Huh? No, I didn't leave when the FP ran out, that's how I know the park was empty. I rode BTMRR like 9 times in row.

The 3FP+ limit was bad, because as I said, people left the park early. Early in the day, it was crowded.

You think it is bad to think about WDW, how it works, and to try and make the most of what they offer?

The last two lines of my post were -I thought - obviously talking about 2020 changes, and the kind of tropes that get bandied about all the time on this forum. Maybe it wasn't so obvious. Not really worth dissecting each one here.

So during my adult life at WDW, I’ve been shepherding two little ones (now teens) in our visits.

When they were young (or when we visited DL) I would be the FP runner to be prepping our plans for the day on the fly. Not fun as it took me away from them for a while and was somewhat exhausting. But if we wanted to ride SM (either one) it was a necessary evil. “Skipping the line” was nice for those rides which needed it.

So when FP+ was created, I was pleased since I could be the runner without running. On some days we could start late and they would not have run out of the FP. As much as I understood the idea of scheduling more later, we just got started with them later and knew that at 8pm, we were riding Space Mountain. And at 2PM after lunch we were riding Splash. It was nice.

As has been discussed over the years, if there are the same number of dispatches of riders per hour, FP does not decrease ride capacity. The number of people going on Pooh has not decreased due to FP. So if the number of FP is limited then those people are choosing their FP for Pooh instead of SM or Small World. But WDW has gotten more crowded so wait times have gone up.

I like FP+.

I wish that there weren’t so many FP in circulation so that the FP lines weren’t usually full and standby could move better. But Club 33 if nothing else ensures that FP+ won’t completely go away.

 

[Chi84]

What also baffles me, is why anyone would belong to a WDW forum if they are opposed to learning tips and information from other people who visit WDW?

I'm more baffled by the ones who say they haven't visited WDW in something like 6 years and swear they'll never return.

 

[ShookieJones]

There are so many better options than the garbage that is "FastPass +" I won't get into the planning way in advance, the amount of rides that have FP that don't require them, the fact that you can't plan FP at multiple parks..etc. etc. we all know it sux....Anyway..here is my list of better options:

1. Paper FastPasses
2. Universal Express Pass
3. Disneyland's Max Pass
4. Universal's Volcano Bay TapuTapu
5. No FOL system at all

I've experienced all of these and every single one of them is a million times better than FastPass+
There is another thread call "Missed Opportunities" floating around out there.

WDW should NOT miss this opportunity to either reinstate or copy one of those
five waaaaaaaaaaay better options above.

 

[cmwade77]

Honestly, there is a better balance than what WDW had. DL showed what could be done, offer traditional FPs by going to each attraction or be able to book them from the app if you pay for Maxpass, which also included photopass. No more scheduling in advance, you either accept the available time window when you get the FP or you don't and you pick a different attraction.

This really provides the best balance between FP+ and no FP.

 

[aliceismad]

There are so many better options than the garbage that is "FastPass +"

Better for who? Does better for guests always mean better for Disney?

 

[MaryJaneP]

Cast our vote for no FP at all! Everyone waits in standby line. Wait time too long, move along.

Since that realistic approach is unlikely to be adopted, maybe reward repeat customers with initial 1 FP per park for every 5 years up to a limit of 4 FP per park. Each example is per person. For example, family A comes on their first trip. They get 1 FP per park per person. Family B comes years 1, 6, 11. They get 3 FP per park per person. A more frequent visitor gets the same amount of FP as another family based upon the 1 FP per 5 year formula. Tour groups would most likely be like family A. WDW could police "abusers". Creates a more level playing field for nearly everyone.

Trolls may try to game the system, criticize the concept, come up with all sorts of "what if"s, and it may be far from ideal, but it is a concept that went through several iterations and has been vetted by the "best people".

Hopefully everyone (TWDC included) can choose wisely.

 

[Marc Davis Fan]

Another thought:

What if FastPass (specifically FP+) were only for Disney resort guests?

This would reduce the number of people in the FP queue (especially if FPs were capped at 3 per day), thus preventing many of the problems in the OP.

And it wouldn't be negatively viewed as a pay-to-play situation the way a MaxPass-only type scenario would be, since it's not "people paying to cut the line" per se, but rather "people staying at Disney resorts."

Plus, this would create a huge incentive to stay on property, which would benefit Disney immensely in that regard. They couldn't have "gotten away with" removing the option of FP for non-Disney-resort guests before COVID, but the current unavailability of any FastPass system and the more general "reshuffling of everything" could give them a golden opportunity.

Just a thought...

 

[marni1971]

Plus, this would create a huge incentive to stay on property, which would benefit Disney immensely in that regard. They couldn't have "gotten away with" removing the option of FP for non-Disney-resort guests before COVID, but the current unavailability of any FastPass system and the more general "reshuffling of everything" could give them a golden opportunity.

What if the current situation was the golden opportunity to remove FP as we knew it to the already conditioned guest?

 

[Goofyernmost]

What if the current situation was the golden opportunity to remove FP as we knew it to the already conditioned guest?

Most realistic theory so far. You must have heard something!

 

[Pepper's Ghost]

Another thought:

What if FastPass (specifically FP+) were only for Disney resort guests?

Although I personally like this thought because it's better for me, it's not fair to AP holders who live locally. I assume they wouldn't be too happy.

The latest iteration of my opinion ... scrap FP+ and replace it with an app-based form of paper FP. Upgrade the entire parks' networks to be able to sustain having all on-property guests be connected to their network, and guests have to be on property and connected to the network to be able to book a FP. No more booking days, weeks, or months in advance. Same day only, and only after you've entered that particular park just like paper FP, but no need to run to rides across the park. No more than one FP at a given time, but technically unlimited FP just like it used to be. Once you use one, you can book another. And more limited FPs available than FP+ to speed up stand-by lines.

 

[Trackmaster]

20 or 30 times a year answers the whole question. Yes, anyone that has been that many times a year has been able to play the system. There are far more of the others. The ones that don't know about FP's little quirks, the ones that have never been and don't even know what is expected, the ones that do not do whatever they can to play the system, those that have families and cannot afford to skip some because if they come back at all, it will be quite a while between trips. So, no! Standby isn't just for those that choose to go standby because almost no one does that, but those that aren't able either have less money or little time to be wondering around parks around 3 times a month. What benefit that FP ever had, was directed to very few people that Disney is attempting to make happy, unlike most businesses that like to make most customers happy and not standing in a hot queue for hours longer then necessary to make those few others happy. You can have the patience of a saint but most guests at WDW do not have the luxury of stopping in on their way home from work. If the vast majority were AP'ers you can bet that WDW would have been included in the Disneyland ending the AP program event.

I never said the system was perfect LOL. I understand that I abuse the system and don't exactly use it as its intended. But even when I was first learning it and just learned to outright hack it, I still saw its value. Think about what it does for the average person who doesn't know the crazy loopholes:

• You'll still be able to get something even if you don't know how to Flight of Passage, Mickey & Minnie, 7DMT, etc. At Magic Kingdom you can always get something other than 7DMT at the 30 day mark and its a big park.
• It does a good job of alerting you to expected crowd levels. If the FP+ are picked clean, its maybe not the best day to go.
• Piggybacking on that, if you know its going to be an awful day, you know what to expect. Don't expect big time production.
• You know when to show up. You show up when your FP+'s start.

Either way, you need some system in place even if its not FP+. I know everyone on here thinks that the inevitable future if a paid system, but they'll need something even for the people who don't buy that. They legally have to give you a DAS pass if you ask for it anyway (since they can't check doctor's notes). So as the lines build up, and nothing free is offered, more and more people will just use that. Eventually they'll need a streamlines, available for all system using technology.

Don't buy this fantasy that stand-by lines for all will ever be permanent.

 

[orky8]

How about Maxpass free for resort guests, charge for all others per day? New revenue stream. Boosts reasons to stay onsite since they've stripped out almost every other benefit.

 

[Living the Life]

People come to WDW to have a great time, especially those who can only make it out 1 time every x amount of years or those who will save all their money and only able to come once once in a lifetime. That said, would you want to spend all your time standing in the lines?? No... Disney needs to bring back the FP or a lot of people will contemplate on not going. OR if they are wanting to make up for lost revenue, do what UOR does, buy an unlimited express pass. At least you're not standing in the hour long rides. One thing for sure, they need to do something

 

[Chi84]

I was a huge fan of FP+ because it ensured we could get on the newest, most popular rides (FOP, SDD) if we booked 60 days out. We visit often enough that the number of rides doesn't matter, and we don't get to the parks until later in the day. That changed with the rides in Galaxy's Edge - to ride them when they first opened, we would have had to get to the park at some ridiculous hour to wait in line or get a boarding group (RotR). So I'm okay with changing the system - paid or not, I hope the system they choose comports with our style of vacationing. If it doesn't, we'll have to find a way to adjust.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't know about anyone in this thread, but regarding FP, people I know in real life blame Disney for not being forthright and being too complicated. Which I think is a valid point. Disney is not always the best at being forthright or advertising all of the available benefits. Disney may actually want it to be complicated because then most people only use their 3 FPs and be done.

I don’t think they intend to create chaos and confuse. There’s this false narrative amongst the fan community that Disney is this tightly controlled and coordinated operation where everything is plotted out together. It’s not. It’s a lot of different silos that can be quite territorial. It’s not so much that FastPass+ is itself too co fusing but all of the other aspects of a vacation and all of their variations.

Better for who? Does better for guests always mean better for Disney?

Guests like shorter waits. Happier guests tend to buy more stuff.

What if the current situation was the golden opportunity to remove FP as we knew it to the already conditioned guest?

Waits will still become excessive as attendance returns. The capacity just isn’t there to provide a desirable guest experience.

 

[Buck Wheelie]

I like the old fast pass system where you get the FP at the ride. I don't like reserving months ahead of time because plans change sometimes right up to day because of weather. We're not going to go to the park in heavy rain just to use a FP. I wonder how many FP+ went unused? My guess is a lot more than the paper FP did.

 

[Trackmaster]

In some ways I agree that many people don't know how FP works. As I just posted, that was true about paper FP as well.

What confuses me though it the notion repeatedly expressed in this thread that experience and education = trickery or cheating. We all learn from our mistakes and successes.

If someone wants to wing it at WDW, that's fine; I firmly defend everyone's' right to take unplanned vacations, but I also don't resent people who research their vacations in advance.

The parent website of this forum, WDWinfo has been around for over 17 years, as have many other completely free sources of WDW information. Any WDW certified travel agent will happily explain FP to anyone that asks. Friends and neighbors are also almost always happy to share WDW tips.

What also baffles me, is why anyone would belong to a WDW forum if they are opposed to learning tips and information from other people who visit WDW?

That's what I'm saying. Its not all about "experience" its about having the right kind of mind for it. Its not like I'm really good at FP+ because I went to Disney so much, I went to Disney so much because of how great FP+ made things for me. It didn't even take me very long to reverse engineer it and find all its loopholes and tricks. I'm completely in favor of getting rid of the loopholes and I'd even give them my advice on how to do it if they paid me my billable hour rate of $160 an hour for my report.

I think that if everybody who went was either "experienced" with FP+ or smart enough to learn it quickly, it would still benefit everybody over 100% stand-by lines. Yeah, "pound the app" might prove to be useless at that point (and that's something I'd get rid of if I was trying to make FP+ more practical and fair) but even without pound the app, you could still pretty much get whatever you want other than the top ride 30 days out, and if you couldn't, you would know that's an awful day to go, and to avoid that day.

Its a good way of letting people know what their minimum production level will be, and there's no surprises. These are your three rides and they'll be walk-ons. Everything is a bonus on top of that. I think that beats rolling the dice and maybe having a decent day or maybe being in stuck in 2-3 hour lines for everything all day.

 

[uncle jimmy]

What if the current situation was the golden opportunity to remove FP as we knew it to the already conditioned guest?

Replaced with something this year? Would Genie be involved with taking over?