Splash Mountain re-theme announced

Status
Not open for further replies.

Donaldfan1934

Well-Known Member
I don’t think I’m saying anything fundamentally different from this. Yes, Disney is responding to current events, but I don’t think it’s accurate to say that the calls have been loud or numerous enough to force their hand. If anything, the current economic crisis gave them the perfect excuse to simply ignore these (relatively muted) calls.
Indeed, we are fundamentally saying the same thing about the timing of the announcement assuming the decision was already made and I agree that Disney’s hand wasn’t technically forced into doing this since they had good incentive to just ignore it. However, it does matter whether or not Disney’s idea because if it wasn’t, it would be a spur-of-the-moment concession rather than a calculated decision like you said it was.
 
Last edited:

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Indeed, we are fundamentally saying the same thing about the timing of the announcement assuming the decision was already made and I agree that Disney’s hand wasn’t technically forced into doing this since they had good incentive to just ignore it. However, it does matter whether or not Disney’s idea because if it wasn’t, it would be a spur-of-the-moment concession rather than a calculated decision like you said it was.

I tend to think they’ve long had it in mind that the ride will need retheming one day. That day was probably some years off until recent developments brought it forward. Needless to say, this is all pure speculation on my part.
 

Rich Brownn

Well-Known Member
Snow was happy in that cottage with those dwarfs and would have been happy and successful if it weren't for a witch.

Cinderella was an abuse victim with nowhere to go. Do you think all people under this circumstance should just grow a backbone and walk out on their own?

Aurora was a romantic. She wanted to marry who she wanted to marry and rejected the idea of getting wed to some prince she didn't know.

Ariel has been hotly debated. Some think she's impulsive and driven by wanting a man. Some thing that it's her love of humanity that drives her more than anything. Either way, while she's being an impulsive teenager of a classic role that I've personally seen plenty in my life who's taken her own agency into her hands and does what she chooses.

Belle wants to not be a submissive, barefoot and pregnant wife to some brute in a small village. She gives up her freedom to save her father and winds up finding someone who appreciates her for who she is and doesn't want her to change. She doesn't like who he is, and he changes his bad habits.

Jasmine, similar to Belle, starts in a situation where she has life with a domineering husband threatened to be thrust upon her. She finds love with someone she prefers, sniffs him out rather easily, and chooses her own way.

Mulan... I mean... Just Mulan.

Tiana has ambitions out of the household and owns her own business. She realized when being tempted by Facilier that if you're successful and you have no loved ones to share it with, then it can be empty. Someone who falls in love and gets married isn't submitting to the Patriarchy.

Merida. Just Merida.

I think Frozen does it best. Because it gives two different paths and two different possibilities. Anna is the romantic. She's dreamt her whole life of having a family of her own. She finds love with a guy who respects her and loves her and makes mistakes every once and again, but nobody is perfect.

Elsa seems to be aromantic, and she has her life on her own, lives life the way she wants to be, is totally independent and winds up finding fulfillment with her life by the end of the second film living with the Northuldra.

They are both valid lives and both valid choices. It's what they want. I'm not going to treat women like children and tell them that what they want isn't valid. I have more respect for them than that. Feminism is believing that a woman should strive to be whatever they wish to be. It's not telling anyone that their goals aren't valid. Some girls like the whole Princess thing. And I think that telling black girls that they can't get the traditional princess treatment is just another source of exclusion.



Why? People have taken that term and made it into a racial slur, but this fable is the origin of the term. We're talking a lot about the importance of origins, and this story is completely innocent.

On a completely separate note, anyone heard from Brer Oswald at all? I'm worried.
Tar Baby originated long before even SoTS, but was adopted into a racial slur, although pretty obscure now. However even modern politicians have been called out for using the phrase, even if they meant it differently.
 

Smiley/OCD

Well-Known Member
Interestingly, in Journey of the Little Mermaid, they forgot about the ceiling during the "Under the Sea" song portion of the ride. You look up at all the fun dancing, singing fish and other sea creatures and see the ugly black ceiling with support beams, lights, wires, etc. I often wonder why they didn't do something better to hide that kind of stuff to create a more seamless illusion.
Well, in reality, if you look at the ceiling while on iasm, you do see the 2'x4' tiles as well while you're looking to see if the ceiling AA's are working yet...
 

Homemade Imagineering

Well-Known Member
Well, in reality, if you look at the ceiling while on iasm, you do see the 2'x4' tiles as well while you're looking to see if the ceiling AA's are working yet...
I decided to take a photo of it on my last trip. I think it adds a vintage sort of charm to IASW, and gets an excuse imo, because everything on the attraction is paper mache and painted plywood. It was meant to look like a child’s art project.
 

Attachments

  • 57BDA2D2-51A5-433E-816B-2EBA8ADE1068.jpeg
    57BDA2D2-51A5-433E-816B-2EBA8ADE1068.jpeg
    37.7 KB · Views: 78

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Tar Baby originated long before even SoTS, but was adopted into a racial slur, although pretty obscure now. However even modern politicians have been called out for using the phrase, even if they meant it differently.
The history of it goes back before Chandler Harris put it down in Uncle Remus, variation have been found in South Africa, Bahama and other countries. Even the Tar Baby in America had been printed early than Chandler's book with Chandler giving Credit to William Owens as a source of many of the folktales that Chandler put down in Uncle Remus. It really didn't seem to become a racial slur until the early 20th century and prior to that time had the more innocent meaning of a situation where you would only become more involved by doing anything.
 

BromBones

Well-Known Member
The history of it goes back before Chandler Harris put it down in Uncle Remus, variation have been found in South Africa, Bahama and other countries. Even the Tar Baby in America had been printed early than Chandler's book with Chandler giving Credit to William Owens as a source of many of the folktales that Chandler put down in Uncle Remus. It really didn't seem to become a racial slur until the early 20th century and prior to that time had the more innocent meaning of a situation where you would only become more involved by doing anything.

Don't mention history to these people. That dispels their ability to virtue signal.
 

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
Woah, So @Matt_Black automatically thinks that Blacks are "lazy" and "refuse to get a job".
What the hell?!?

I never said that. What I DID say is that in some forms of entertainment, that is a common stereotype applied to black characters. Here's the exact comment.

Ehh... The characters of Br'er Rabbit, Fox, and Bear are evocative of certain stereotypes of African-Americans, some of which aren't very flattering.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
It was set during the reconstruction. And nothing was romanticized. It was an old man Uncle Remus who told the folk tales to the kids.
Have you even seen the movie?

I didn’t say it depicted slavery, only that it’s set on a plantation, which it is. Its romanticisation of plantation life was noted back in 1946, so clearly it’s there.

Yep, I had it on video as a child (I’m British) and watched it many, many times.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
I didn’t say it depicted slavery, only that it’s set on a plantation, which it is. Its romanticisation of plantation life was noted back in 1946, so clearly it’s there.

Yep, I had it on video as a child (I’m British) and watched it many, many times.
When was the romanticisation of plantation life noted? I don't think I remember that happening in the movie. I recall the live action was set on a plantation, it wasn't romanticized it was simply as it would have been after the war assuming it had not be burned down by the union soldiers. Or is that the rub you have that the plantation still existed?
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
When was the romanticisation of plantation life noted? I don't think I remember that happening in the movie. I recall the live action was set on a plantation, it wasn't romanticized it was simply as it would have been after the war assuming it had not be burned down by the union soldiers. Or is that the rub you have that the plantation still existed?

Here are some reactions from 1946 that answer your question better than I could:

It's worth noting that the film was already understood to be problematic back in 1946, even by reviewers who liked it:


Quoted from the first link:

Ideologically, the picture is certain to land its maker in hot water. Tattered ol' Uncle Remus, who cheerfully "knew his place" in the easygoing world of late 19th Century Georgia (Author Harris, in accepted Southern fashion, always omitted the capital from the word "Negro"), is a character bound to enrage all educated Negroes, and a number of damyankees.​

And from the second:

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People expressed regret yesterday over Walt Disney's new production, "Song of the South," on the ground that it is helping to perpetuate the impression of "an idyllic master-slave relationship" in the South. Walter White, executive secretary, in telegrams to newspapers, stated the association recognized the artistic merit of the picture, but added, "It regrets, however, that in an effort neither to offend audiences in the North or South, the production helps to perpetuate a dangerously glorified picture of slavery. Making use of the beautiful Uncle Remus folklore, 'Song of the South' unfortunately gives the impression of an idyllic master-slave relationship which is a distortion of the facts."​
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Oh, don’t get me wrong.. I don’t think he should be “cancelled”, I just think who gets cancelled is highly tied to their political party, not logic.
It is, I think if people are being honest if it wasn't Jimmy Fallon and was instead say Jon Voight then it wouldn't have matter what the context of him being in blackface was he would have been fired so fast he wouldn't had time to say, "boo". If the conservative were smart they wouldn't let things like this slip they would take a page from the woke handbook and start picketing and protesting every liberal that ever made a mistake just to insure that the slaughtering of careers was fair and balanced.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
[
Woah, So @Matt_Black automatically thinks that Blacks are "lazy" and "refuse to get a job".
What the hell?!?

When asked to explain why he felt the characters of Splash Mountain evoked the negative African American stereotypes, he said this:
It's literally there in the ride. Rabbit runs away from home to find adventure, Fox tries to catch Rabbit to eat him instead of getting a job so that he has money to buy dinner, and Br'er Bear goes "duhhh..." in practically every other line of dialogue.
I added no words to this. How does anyone ever ride Splash Mt and see that Brer Fox refused to get a job? And then also adding because of the simple brute character style of Brer Bear he must also evoke those stereotypes, rather than just be a character trait. Matt apparently sees that as evidence of Brer Bears negative evocation. which is an incredibly racist thing to state.
It is very odd that he felt that is "literally" in the ride but never gave an example of dialogue or scenary that shows Beer Fox refusing to get a job or trying to make money by catching Brer Rabbit. and he was never able to why that would make the characters a race.
 
Last edited:

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
I added no words to this. How does anyone ever ride Splash Mt and see that Brer Fox refused to get a job?

All right, since you seem to refuse to let this drop, despite my offer to walk away from it, I'm going to try one more time. In the lyrics to the Splash Mountain version of "Everybody's Got A Laughing Place", there's a line "Our work is play". That implies work exists in the fictionalized world of Splash Mountain. Furthermore, work is something to be encouraged, because the lyrics of the supporting cast in the SM version of "How Do You Do" express dismay overy Br'er Rabbit's desire to go to the Laughing Place where "work is play"*.

*And if anyone, ANYONE brings up the FISH! Philosophy series of books, or any similar drivel, I will immediately place you on the ignore list.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom