Splash Mountain re-theme announced

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21stamps

21stamps

Well-Known Member
SilentWindODoom said:
These are two completely different stories and arcs. Are you one of those "loose tan clothes on desert planet meant Rey is a cheap knockoff of Luke" people?
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Both fit the classical Disney view on women- You can’t really be happy or find success until a man falls in love with you. At that point your life can start, possibilities open for you. No success until then, just a mess of running around or needing a fairy to help you..
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
Flugell said:
Why can’t I write a Disney star actors name? Ridiculous!
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Ironic when we all know the real concern is intent. Thank you for that great post. It is nice to see more sense here. It really is the majority. It reminds me that the splash deal is sadly Bob Iger's ego and urge for revenue in these times for Magic Kingdom more than it is allowing for social justice. Your comparisons and opinions are well communicated and provide more realistic judgement or critique for Song of the South rather than hatred.
Just to clarify: Disneyland and Magic Kingdom were not themed Around American geography as much as the romantacized versionf of ideals. As Walt's speech by Mr. Sklar said on opening day it includes "The Hard Facts that have created America" that includes our love of old fairy and folk tales that help us. That is why I always felt Splash really fit right in to the romantacized frontier.
 
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LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
21stamps said:
So, no opinions here. Another direct question avoided. Got it.
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You honestly expect me to summarise thousands of posts written by other people? You asked why the debate hadn’t encompassed other problematic attraction. It has, and I pointed you in the direction of one of the many threads in which such discussion is playing out.

If you’re asking what my personal views on the issue are, I am sad to see Splash Mountain go but understand why the change is happening, and I believe that a number of scenes in other attractions (the Indian encampment in Peter Pan and the natives in The Jungle Cruise in particular) also stand to be modified.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
Flugell said:
Hooray!! I’ve finally made it through every post and it’s only 2.30 am in the good old U.K. Now for my questions/ suggestions.
1. In Mary Poppins, **** van **** had the worst cockney accent in living memory. I’m speaking as someone who was born a cockney but moved away as a baby - is that accent racist/offensive or just plain bad acting? I love the film, including **** van **** and totally forgive him as I feel sure there was no intent to cause offence. There in lies the rub..... no intent. Others may feel that the character should have been played by a real cockney, such as Tommy Steel who could also sing and dance. I don’t know how I feel but I know I love the film and consider Feed the Birds one of the greatest ever Disney Songs. Ideas anyone?
2. I never realised that WDW was themed around American geography, so many apologies for that-I just thought that they were cool sounding names. However I have always felt that there was one film that would make the best ride ever, though now realise it would have to sit next to Peter Pan. In my head the carriages would be beds, with a crystal on the top that the CM would activate to send you on your way. A quick trip through Portobello Rd Market and then under the sea for the mad football match featuring zany animals , then into the castle where the armour comes to life and marches! I realise that the end of the film ends up fighting the Germans , which is most definitely not acceptable, though I don’t recall anyone dying and it was a very slapstick scene. Bed knobs and Broomsticks in case you haven’t guessed! Can you imagine that where Splash Mountain used to be😢?
Then Princess and the Frog can rightly take Its place with a purpose built ride and African Americans, indeed any African, Caribbean etc. Can finally feel included and valued rather than having to accept a remodel of one of Disney’s greatest rides. If Disney is serious about undoing wrongs and helping to create equality then patching something does not, in my opinion , go far enough. Again would welcome thoughts though may not read them immediately!
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Fellow Brit here. I don’t think a comparison between Cockneys and African Americans is particularly tenable, for reasons too obvious to need stating.
 
Matt_Black

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
celluloid said:
If you can make a statement like that, than surely you can describe them and not just feel that way by default?
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Br'er Rabbit- Would rather sit around and sing than do anything productive
Br'er Fox- Schemer trying to get an easy meal who's not nearly as clever as he thinks
Br'er Bear- big, dumb brute

You see these often applied to black characters in early Hollywood films.
 
21stamps

21stamps

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
You honestly expect me to summarise thousands of posts written by other people? You asked why the debate hadn’t encompassed other problematic attraction. It has, and I pointed you in the direction of one of the many threads in which such discussion is playing out.

If you’re asking what my personal views on the issue are, I am sad to see Splash Mountain go but understand why the change is happening, and I believe that a number of scenes in other attractions (the Indian encampment in Peter Pan and the natives in The Jungle Cruise in particular) also stand to be modified.
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This is very interesting. They can simply be modified, but Splash must go.. as well as the songs, according to many here.

What about Cinderella? Should she be modified (and her castle as well), or go? Or is she fine as she is?
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
Matt_Black said:
Br'er Rabbit- Would rather sit around and sing than do anything productive
Br'er Fox- Schemer trying to get an easy meal who's not nearly as clever as he thinks
Br'er Bear- big, dumb brute
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They have human traits that tell the story of Brer Rabbit leaving home. The story of the ride is him looking for adventure, not being lazy. At the end he realizes sometimes appreciating home is enough. Not sure wher you got the lazy thing from. That is literally the story told by the end of the ride. How do you choose to apply this to a race? They are anthropormorphic. Why would anyone automatically put that to a race? Character flaws in a folk story equal racial stereotypes of the same race of the narrator?
 
Matt_Black

Matt_Black

Well-Known Member
21stamps said:
This is very interesting. They can simply be modified, but Splash must go.. as well as the songs, according to many here.

What about Cinderella? Should she be modified (and her castle as well), or go? Or is she fine as she is?
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I haven't seen anyone in favor of the Splash Mountain change ask for Cinderella to be changed or removed. What I HAVE seen is people bring up Cinderella and others in the context of "If THEY are coming for Splash Mountain, now, then what's next?!? When will it end?!?"
 
Flugell

Flugell

Well-Known Member
LittleBuford said:
Fellow Brit here. I don’t think a comparison between Cockneys and African Americans is particularly tenable, for reasons too obvious to need stating.
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Sorry disagree. I’d like to hear the reasons. I was born a cockney and I find it offensive. I’m of Welsh heritage and hate the way the rest of the world can’t pronounce the names of many of our towns. They even choose to give them different names and we’re all part of the United Kingdom. Seriously though I do appreciate that it may be on a different level but offence is offence. If Song of the South is offensive why is the actor who’s name I can’t type not equally a target for his truly atrocious accent? Is it because we’re all of the same Ethnic heritage? Having actually read every post in this forum I know that some of the reasons for people agreeing with The removal of Splash Mountain was because of the outrageous accents and the dialect that was used. Cockney rhyming slang and an unforgivable accent- what’s the difference?
 
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celluloid

Well-Known Member
Matt_Black said:
Yes. Now, how many genius mad scientist black characters do you see in those old films? How many crusading black lawyer characters, trying to bring justice to an often injust legal system?
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Strawmanning the argument. We are speaking of how you got this from the ride. We are aware of your liberal arts like knowledge of films and tropes. It is fun. But you are making claims and then not answering the correlation. This has nothing to do with mad scientist black characters or lack there of in old films.

I am sure you are not, but if one were to take your claims as they are without support, you would be the most racist commenter on the subject I have seen in the entire forum.
 
21stamps

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Matt_Black said:
I haven't seen anyone in favor of the Splash Mountain change ask for Cinderella to be changed or removed. What I HAVE seen is people bring up Cinderella and others in the context of "If THEY are coming for Splash Mountain, now, then what's next?!? When will it end?!?"
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Exactly. Because we pick and choose what’s tolerable, even though they’re all offensive stereotypes when really look at it.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
21stamps said:
This is very interesting. They can simply be modified, but Splash must go.. as well as the songs, according to many here.

What about Cinderella? Should she be modified (and her castle as well), or go? Or is she fine as she is?
Click to expand...

I can’t tell if these are rhetorical questions or actually meant for me.
 
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