Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[Joel]

As someone who just watched Song of the South for the first time in my life, I think Disney's actions (or, more precisely, its inaction) over the past few decades are to blame for the movie being popularly known merely as "that one secret, racist Disney movie".

Is it totally unproblematic? Of course not. I mean, it's a Disney movie from 1946, for crying out loud! Of course it's going to be a not terribly accurate or nuanced depiction of life. But it's not even close to the ignorant (by definition) perception that I had of it for decades. If Disney had just released the film on home video with some editing and appropriate disclaimers and context, I believe it wouldn't be nearly as controversial as it is today.

That Splash Mountain could be concerned cancellable because of it seems even more ridiculous to me now.

 

[SilentWindODoom]

Re: Elsa .. she doesn’t need to end up without a love interest in her life, but she has plenty of time to figure that out, and she won’t need to be saved when it does happen.

Nah, she's the most powerful being in that universe. Then again, a lesson to not hold everything on your shoulders and accept help could always come in the future. Although I feel like that has come up in both films without being totally resolved.

Woke warriors fling the racist word as freely as monkeys fling feces, only I think the monkeys have a better understanding of what they are doing than the woke warriors. Those clueless warriors just use the word as a catchall for anyone that doesn't believe what they believe.

Oof. I don't disagree with the premise, but egads that's not an illustration that's going to help in any argument on race.

Whatever issues Dumbo may have (and it certainly has them), those characters are not slaves. The film is set in the twentieth century.

Yeah, I was wondering about that, but there was plenty of other discussion going on.

I've stopped regularly watching Disney vloggers, save for a random video here or there. It's all such repetitive content.

Tim and Jenn Tracker are cool. Real genuine nice people with a goofy sense of humor and while I enjoyed the check ins on the park, I've started to appreciate watching their son who was born at the end of last year grow up while they've been stuck in quarantine.

I can't be sure, but I doubt the membership of this site is all that diverse. Even without regard to racial makeup, these boards tend to skew older and wealthier, and the attitudes and comments will reflect that. Your post is very thoughtful, but from what I've seen here, there are also people of "no diversity" who can't understand why Disney would re-theme this ride simply to be more inclusive, and they fear losing even more going forward.

Did you miss the black guy earlier who lamented the replacement of African-American folklore with African roots with a European fairytale that had the races switched?

I agree that the use of the term problematical was less than clear. My intention is that it was problematical to Disney. I’m not keen on the word either but couldn’t think of another neutral type word. It was in fact problematical to me!!! Please don’t be cross!!

I thought all the confusion was because I'm 98% sure problematical isn't a word.

The bottom line is Tiana was a poor choice for a black Disney princess. She is really nothing more than a copy of Cinderella with different colored skin and hair. At least when you see Mulan or Moana you can tell that they tried to capture some sense of the ethnicity of the character. Tiana is more of an insult, it is as if Mattel decided to make black barbies by just changing the color of the plastic and color of the hair... Quite pathetic, yet I'm sure it was easier for Disney to do it that way than to try and develop a real character representative to the black girls in America

Cinderella: Emotionally abused slave who is kindly but does have more attitude than most people give her credit for. Her good nature is rewarded by a fairy appearing and giving her a chance to fulfill her dreams. She meets someone and falls in love and is rescued from her abusive situation.

Tiana: Young woman working two jobs to try to afford a restaurant. She's misunderstood her father's dreams and his most important lesson of dreaming but also living in the present with your loved ones, and is focused on fulfilling his dreams and nothing else. She gets the money, but the opportunity she had is taken away due to racism. Due to a misunderstanding she gets turned into a frog and goes through a journey to try to fix the situation. She and her fellow frog learn to appreciate each other and wind up falling in love. She learns the lesson her father wanted her to learn and becomes a far more rounded person. In the end she gets her restaurant and her love.

These are two completely different stories and arcs. Are you one of those "loose tan clothes on desert planet meant Rey is a cheap knockoff of Luke" people?

 

[Parker in NYC]

Not only “too dumb to vote”, but not even worthy of being put in the constitution. .


Fun fact 1- Women are nowhere mentioned in the constitution of the USA.

Fun fact 2- black men got the right to vote in 1870.

Fun fact 3- women got the right to vote in 1920.


Synopsis.. history has a lot of injustice, we can deal with it by erasing it from public view, or we can realize that time has moved on.. and we are all equal under the law, today.

As a trans woman, I disagree.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Oh, lord. This was moved to the Politics Board! G'bye all!

 

[Incomudro]

I didn't read through the whole thread and I am sure it has been mentioned but it does bear mentioning again, especially to all the Disney Shills that are on these boards ...

The petition to save Splash Mountain far exceeds all of the petitions to retheme Splash Mountain combined.

But we all know petitions mean nothing ...

Although I will put one thing in perspective ... the total number of people who have signed all the re-theme Splash Mountain petitions combined equates to about 30K people. WDW alone gets 58M visitors a year and Disneyland is 19M ... therefore the people that want Splash Mountain re-themed equates to approximately 0.0003% of the park going population.

Disney Corporate Executives, Disney Shills, and whoever is paid by Disney to read these boards ... I am sure you factored those numbers into your decisions, right?

The numbers are irrefutable, the overwhelming majority do not want this change to happen- and here's something else shocking, not everyone that doesn't want it to happen is a racist. Some people are just sick of losing classic e-ticket attractions, some people want ADDITIONS to the park not re-themes because that doesn't help with crowd control, some people are scared at the prospect of losing an attraction with 100 AAs (a dying art) which will undoubtedly be replaced by an attraction with considerably less (maybe) ...

My point is this- there is a way to have this discussion with civility and grace and without assuming what someone's motives may be behind what they want to see happen here but at the end of the day there are two big arguments for both sides that come from these numbers:

1. Disney is clearly making a decision that goes against the numbers, maybe that means something, maybe they think they are doing the right thing? (Although maybe its a marketing ploy to detract from the park delays)

2. The people that don't want it changed is the OVERWHELMING majority, so maybe those that do want it changed shouldn't think all of those people are crazy or racist or un-woke or whatever.

That's all.

Where can I sign this petition?

 

[21stamps]

As a trans woman, I disagree.

True... so much of what biological women have gained in the past 50 years has been threatened again on so many fronts..but that’s for a different thread.

 

[Incomudro]

I mean what evidence do you have that it isn’t true? If you want, we can at least agree that neither of us know the full truth and never will and it is up to each individual to decide for themselves. Your bias towards liking the ride and song will always lead you to not believing there could be a connection.

My position is more neutral because Splash was never my favorite ride and although I like the song, I don’t care too much if it does have connections to racism. That’s fine. But the fact is the ride is based on a pretty outdated racist film with a song that at the very least can easily be compared to a racist song from the era the movie takes place.

So yeah, I’m okay with Disney making the change. I’d have been okay if they didn’t change it too. But they are and I think it’s for the best.

"Can be compared to a racist song from the era the movie takes place."
Do you realize how ridiculous that statement is?

 

[ImperfectPixie]

Where can I sign this petition?

Sign the Petition

To Save Splash Mountain and keep it as it is in Magic Kingdom and Disneyland

www.change.org

 

[Kate F]

If you were to survey all the people who visit the MK in a single year on what their favorite ride in the park is, how do you think Splash Mountain would fare? It’s about the numbers, right?

 

[Incomudro]

Sign the Petition

To Save Splash Mountain and keep it as it is in Magic Kingdom and Disneyland

www.change.org

Thank you so much!

 

[Brer Panther]

But we all know petitions mean nothing ...

But wasn't it a petition that gave them the idea to retheme the ride to The Princess and the Frog in the first place?

Rough draft:
View attachment 480101
View attachment 480102
View attachment 480103

Well said. All of it.

 

[21stamps]

"Can be compared to a racist song from the era the movie takes place."
Do you realize how ridiculous that statement is?

The problem starts with the first line.
We’ve somehow become a society where an accusation is made, and it’s considered true until proven false. Literally guilty until proven innocent.

Crazy times.

 

[LittleBuford]

Is it totally unproblematic? Of course not. I mean, it's a Disney movie from 1946, for crying out loud!

It's worth noting that the film was already understood to be problematic back in 1946, even by reviewers who liked it:

The New Pictures, Nov. 18, 1946 -- Printout -- TIME

Song of the South (Walt Disney-RKO Radio) makes movie actors out of ol' Uncle Remus, Brer Rabbit, Brer Fox and de creeturs an' crawlin' things. Adapted with freehanded skill from the famed...

content.time.com

THE SCREEN; 'Song of the South,' Disney Film Combining Cartoons and Life, Opens of Palace--Abbott and Costello of Loew's Criterion (Published 1946)

Theirs.

www.nytimes.com

Quoted from the first link:

Ideologically, the picture is certain to land its maker in hot water. Tattered ol' Uncle Remus, who cheerfully "knew his place" in the easygoing world of late 19th Century Georgia (Author Harris, in accepted Southern fashion, always omitted the capital from the word "Negro"), is a character bound to enrage all educated Negroes, and a number of damyankees.​

And from the second:

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People expressed regret yesterday over Walt Disney's new production, "Song of the South," on the ground that it is helping to perpetuate the impression of "an idyllic master-slave relationship" in the South. Walter White, executive secretary, in telegrams to newspapers, stated the association recognized the artistic merit of the picture, but added, "It regrets, however, that in an effort neither to offend audiences in the North or South, the production helps to perpetuate a dangerously glorified picture of slavery. Making use of the beautiful Uncle Remus folklore, 'Song of the South' unfortunately gives the impression of an idyllic master-slave relationship which is a distortion of the facts."​

 

[celluloid]

Critiques from the past and the present. Including words from the African American stars of THE FILM.
What I take away from the movie," Leonard Maltin said, "is the following: That Uncle Remus is a warm, good-hearted character who captures the imagination of a lonely little boy who happens to be white. The boy is absolutely colorblind, and the audience relates to him. There is an incredible moment when Uncle Remus takes the boy’s hand in his, and there is an insert of the white and black hands clasped together. It’s the emotional climax of the movie."

“I wish Walt were alive", said Ruth Warrick, who costarred in Song of the South, in a May 2003 interview, "I’m sad it has not been released because it leaves out a whole chapter in the history of Walt Disney. The film is probably one of his crowning points...A labor of love, Song of the South was conceived by Disney as a celebration of Joel Chandler Harris’ “Uncle Remus” stories that inspired him and enchanted his children."

"It was a film he really wanted to do," recalled Diane Disney Miller, daughter of Walt Disney. "My dad quoted so much from Uncle Remus’ logic and philosophy."

Clarence Page, nationally syndicated columnist for the Chicago Tribune who also is African American, called the film one of his favorites from his childhood and one he had hoped to share with his son. He said in an interview, "There’s a deep African tradition in Song of the South. Br'er Rabbit is an emblematic figure of African folklore, a direct descendant of the trickster who gets by on his wits. Where "Political Correctness" gets ridiculous is when corporations trying to avoid a controversy just presume that if something is stereotypical, then African Americans aren’t going to like this. There is a diversity of images in the media now that reflect our diversity in real life. We can look at Song of the South with a new awareness and appreciation."


From the Cast:
From a February 1947 interview, printed in The Criterion, Oscar winning African American actress Hattie McDaniel who appeared in the film defended it by saying, "If I had for one moment considered any part of the picture degrading or harmful to my people I would not have appeared therein." In the same article:

James Baskett, who played the role of Uncle Remus and voiced other animated characters, commented, "I believe that certain groups are doing my race more harm in seeking to create dissension than can ever possibly come out of the Song of the South."

Crazy how timeless James' statement can be there.

 

[Musical Mermaid]

How far along in development will this get before they realize a fairytale princess from the 1920s doesn’t belong in 1800s frontier America and does belong with the other fairytale princesses in Fantasyland? That’d seem so much more inclusive to me. Maybe Disney wants to appease the small group of people the cheapest and easiest way possible, but eventually that will bite them in the rear too. I can see the complaints now: “Why is the only black princess segregated from the other princesses? That’s racist!” (Honestly, it does seem more racist than anything in Splash Mountain.) If they have to give her a ride at Magic Kingdom, it’d be so much better in Fantasyland and wouldn’t lead to awkward questions. I know, I know, they can’t spend too much $ on this project and that’s why they have to make the same ride on 2 coasts instead of having some variety and being more in theme, but I’m so tired of the excuses and them acting like they care.

 

[LittleBuford]

Critiques from the past and the present. Including words from the African American stars of THE FILM.
What I take away from the movie," Leonard Maltin said, "is the following: That Uncle Remus is a warm, good-hearted character who captures the imagination of a lonely little boy who happens to be white. The boy is absolutely colorblind, and the audience relates to him. There is an incredible moment when Uncle Remus takes the boy’s hand in his, and there is an insert of the white and black hands clasped together. It’s the emotional climax of the movie."

“I wish Walt were alive", said Ruth Warrick, who costarred in Song of the South, in a May 2003 interview, "I’m sad it has not been released because it leaves out a whole chapter in the history of Walt Disney. The film is probably one of his crowning points...A labor of love, Song of the South was conceived by Disney as a celebration of Joel Chandler Harris’ “Uncle Remus” stories that inspired him and enchanted his children."

"It was a film he really wanted to do," recalled Diane Disney Miller, daughter of Walt Disney. "My dad quoted so much from Uncle Remus’ logic and philosophy."

Clarence Page, nationally syndicated columnist for the Chicago Tribune who also is African American, called the film one of his favorites from his childhood and one he had hoped to share with his son. He said in an interview, "There’s a deep African tradition in Song of the South. Br'er Rabbit is an emblematic figure of African folklore, a direct descendant of the trickster who gets by on his wits. Where "Political Correctness" gets ridiculous is when corporations trying to avoid a controversy just presume that if something is stereotypical, then African Americans aren’t going to like this. There is a diversity of images in the media now that reflect our diversity in real life. We can look at Song of the South with a new awareness and appreciation."


From the Cast:
From a February 1947 interview, printed in The Criterion, Oscar winning African American actress Hattie McDaniel who appeared in the film defended it by saying, "If I had for one moment considered any part of the picture degrading or harmful to my people I would not have appeared therein." In the same article:

James Baskett, who played the role of Uncle Remus and voiced other animated characters, commented, "I believe that certain groups are doing my race more harm in seeking to create dissension than can ever possibly come out of the Song of the South."

Crazy how timeless James' statement can be there.

I don’t think anyone is denying that Song of the South has also been positively viewed, including by people of colour. But to claim or imply (as some here are doing) that we’re judging the film unfairly by modern standards is to ignore the fact that the film was already controversial back when it was first released.

 

[Incomudro]

The problem starts with the first line.
We’ve somehow become a society where an accusation is made, and it’s considered true until proven false. Literally guilty until proven innocent.

Crazy times.

And even if there so comparison that can be made, so what?
Nothing - particularly music, exists in a vacuum.

 

[celluloid]

I don’t think anyone is denying that Song of the South has also been positively viewed, including by people of colour. But to claim or imply (as some here are doing) that we’re judging the film unfairly by modern standards is to ignore the fact that the film was already controversial back when it was first released.

Isn't everything though?
That is why I think Baskins' words are so appropriate for this discussion. It talks about the hate that comes from people finding offense far more damaging then the likely unintentional material itself.

 

[ImperfectPixie]

I don’t think anyone is denying that Song of the South has also been positively viewed, including by people of colour. But to claim or imply (as some here are doing) that we’re judging the film unfairly by modern standards is to ignore the fact that the film was already controversial back when it was first released.

Whenever race is a part of discussion, things are going to be problematic...and this is why I think context and intent need to be taken into account. I'd forgotten about the end of the film that was mentioned up-thread...the boy and Uncle Remus holding hands...there is an important message there.

What I take away from the movie," Leonard Maltin said, "is the following: That Uncle Remus is a warm, good-hearted character who captures the imagination of a lonely little boy who happens to be white. The boy is absolutely colorblind, and the audience relates to him. There is an incredible moment when Uncle Remus takes the boy’s hand in his, and there is an insert of the white and black hands clasped together. It’s the emotional climax of the movie."

 

[LittleBuford]

Isn't everything though?
That is why I think Baskins' words are so appropriate for this discussion. It talks about the hate that comes from people finding offense far more damaging then the likely unintentional material itself.

But the offence that people took in 1946 (and that most still take now) centres on the film’s romanticisation of plantation life, which was certainly intentional (though obviously not intended to be offensive).