Splash Mountain re-theme announced

[21stamps]

Bart's an adult male?

You can’t make sense of it. We’re supposed to pretend that a majority isn’t a majority after all.

 

[Phil12]

I see a difference between "zip-a-dee-doo-dah" and "Zip a duden duden duden"... is the word "zip" common today? No, but I wasn't alive in the 1800's and have no clue how common or uncommon it was. For all I know it was a very common word back then.. but when I see that "zip ****" was sung to the melody of "Turkey in the Straw" and I see no connection between that and the melody of "Zip-a-dee-doo-dah" then I simply can't accept that one was the derived from the other. It seems to be as much of coincidence as anything else. I'm also a bit perplexed at why you think the two men responsible for the song, that were born and raised in Connecticut in the early 20th century would have even been familiar with "zip ****" which was published in 1834? Do you think Connecticut was a bastion of hold over slave owners from the Civil War era that sat around singing old songs from the slave days? Sorry but when you look at the history of the two songs the evidence just doesn't hold up. I am much more inclined to believe that some woke warriors were looking for some way to make a further connection with the Antebellum South and Song of the South and when they found "Zip ****" they jumped for joy without bothering to look at whether it made sense that two guys from Connecticut would have ever heard of a racist song from the south that was created almost 100 years before they were even born.

Historical background behind "Zip A Dee Doo Dah" - Behind the Music

This seemingly nonsense song has a lot of baggage packed into its brief stanzas. Disney won an Oscar for it but never made much money from the film.

www.behind-the-music.com

Old Zip Coon/Turkey in the Straw - 2018 - Question of the Month - Jim Crow Museum

This song was performed by a white man in blackface. The objective was to ridicule and draw attention to the inferiority of the black race while simultaneously championing the superiority of the white race:

 

[celluloid]

No, but I think his point was that Bart should be voiced by a male because he is a male.

*her*

 

[disneygeek90]

*her*

Oops, my mistake. Apologies.

 

[21stamps]

Historical background behind "Zip A Dee Doo Dah" - Behind the Music

This seemingly nonsense song has a lot of baggage packed into its brief stanzas. Disney won an Oscar for it but never made much money from the film.

www.behind-the-music.com

Old Zip Coon/Turkey in the Straw - 2018 - Question of the Month - Jim Crow Museum

This song was performed by a white man in blackface. The objective was to ridicule and draw attention to the inferiority of the black race while simultaneously championing the superiority of the white race:

1 Word-

Motown.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Not really. The film was theatrically re-released in 1986. Disney was apparently naming the movie online until very recently.

Yep- they removed the references to Song of the South on the main web page for both WDW and DL, but it's still in the search preview-

It's also directly referenced in the Disneyland version of the ride on the sign behind the fox (I couldn't find a good photo)-

 

[Brer Oswald]

Br’er Rabbit is a tale that has existed for hundreds of years, dating back to West Africa and through oral tradition of generations in the bonds of slavery. It was a tale rooted in empowerment and hope for getting by, it was about a sly rabbit outwitting authority figures and those that wished him harm. It may be unfortunate to be incorporated in Song of the South, but it exists independently of that movie and the ride makes no mention of the problematic aspects. The Br’er Rabbit tales predate Disney by hundreds of years and has continued to be used outside of Disney (there was a Nick Cannon movie in 2006). Cancelling this important story because contemporary Twitter mobs can’t separate it from another part that hasn’t been seen in decades is doing a disservice and burying an important part of history and African-American storytelling tradition. Condemning traditional African folklore for sharing the screen with Song of the South would be like condemning Sleepy Hollow if America turned on Mr. Toad.

So, now that we are cancelling African folklore, what are we replacing it with? A European fairytale with races switched and an element where the African Americans are tormented by voodoo and witch doctors. That sounds more questionable to me and, on top of everything, this will likely be a cheap overlay rather than a new, innovative ride that many believe Princess and the Frog deserves.

Perhaps a better option would be to save the money of an overlay and add an exhibit to the queue of Splash Mountain about the roots of traditional African American storytelling and its importance. Turn it empowering and free the narrative from the connection to Song of the South. Br’er Rabbit remains a tale that needs telling.

Yeah. The idea to do away with an African American folklore tale in favour of a European tale is rather troubling. We went from one story with black roots to none. Granted, it was a whitewashing not the tale. Which is why I believe steps should have been taken to bring the ride closer to its roots than outright change it.

Change the music. Change the voice cast to a black cast. Change the script. There’s a lot of things that needed to change. But this argument will come back to bite Disney eventually, unless they start putting all of their effort to creating tons of stories created by and about black people, as well as of people of other colours and nationalities (which they could be doing as we speak).

PatF works on a surface level, because now you have a character, clearly black, with a major attraction to represent people. While that’s great, you’re replacing an African American Tale with a “white” lead with a European tale that has a black lead. Obviously there was a problem with the first one, but it wasn’t unfixable. Not sure why Brer Rabbit wasn’t played by a black actor in the ride considering he was in the movie (I’m pretty sure?), but that could’ve been fixed.

There shouldn’t be one “token black story” in the parks. There should be more than two, although two would’ve been a start. They could’ve co-existed. But Disney never cared about this. They wanted Splash gone. They didn’t want to hear SotS being asked about at the investor meetings anymore. They didn’t want to maintain a fluke with 100 animatronics. They didn’t want to make the effort to write the wrongs of SotS.

They want to pretend like it never happened. And so far, it’s working. This has bought them a lot of good press right now. But people who think critically are going to start comparing notes. And people who can think critically are the people that go far. The people that rise to power to hold others accountable, and influence others as well.

Splash Mountain needed changes, but it needed changes within the folklore it was based on. Disney needs more than just one black centred story, and it’s going to need some that aren’t just modified European fairytales written by white dudes.

 

[Phil12]

1 Word-

Motown.

 

[orlandogal22]

I just came across an archived article from the 1997 book Do-Dah! Stephen Foster and the Rise of American Popular Culture

On Page 60, it references Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah. And calls it "one of many echoes of blackface in Disney."
It then goes on to cite Mickey himself in Steamboat Willie as having "black skin, exaggerated facial features, white gloves, and big feet [sic] an updated Ethiopian delineation."

Well, that's it, folks! Let's just get rid all the parks worldwide and wipe the name of Disney from the face of the earth.
Mickey was apparently founded on the premise of blackface. He couldn't possibly be just a mouse!
Why are we even here discussing this? Everything is racist, don't you know?

Doo-dah! : Stephen Foster and the rise of American popular culture : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

400 p. : 24 cm

archive.org

 

[aw14]

No, ideally give minority people more roles in general! Any role! But when a majority of roles on TV are white characters and when there finally is a black character, it's still given to a white actor, that's a problem.

In an ideal world representation on tv would be equal to our society, and it's getting better, but it'll still take some time.

So
Minorities can get a voice role playing a white character but not vice versa?

 

[orlandogal22]

What's your point here? Both groups are black.

 

[Musical Mermaid]

This is more about WDW than Disneyland. Shouldn’t Disney be replacing something in Frontierland with something that fits the theming? Yeah, maybe Splash Mountain isn’t western, but it comes closer to representing the African stories being told during that time period. Any other depictions of African culture during that era would likely be the type of material people don’t want to see or remember. And apparently a lot of figures from the frontier would upset people as well, so why couldn’t this be about the nature of the frontier? They have a runaway mine train next door, but couldn’t they think of something about crazy waterfalls and cliffs? Does Disney have any original ideas anymore? ($$$, princess, princess, princess)

Princess and the Frog, as a fairytale, belongs more in Fantasyland than anywhere else if it were to be placed in Magic Kingdom. Based on the New Orleans setting, it’d be amazing to see a character dining experience at Port Orleans French Quarter based off of Tiana’s Restaurant. That seems to write itself with all the Mardi Gras theming and Tiana’s dream come to life, whereas Mardi Gras in the 20th century in Frontierland? What are the leaders smoking? Maybe nothing, just a hypothetical question, but I’m questioning the smarts of those in charge when things like this don’t seem well thought out. No, they weren’t thinking of this for years, because if they had been, surely they would have had better ideas by now, right?

P.S. I like the characters in Splash Mountain, the songs, and the ride. I like Princess and the Frog. I don’t think what Disney has planned right now makes sense.

 

[Brer Oswald]

The problem with condemning Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah (which I’ve seen Twitter activists misspell as “Zippity” to further push it towards the Zip C**n Racist theory agenda), Mickey’s Gloves, And other harmless things with problematic origins means that we are saying nothing good can come from something bad.

It’s the same as the mentality that people can’t change, which is something many people believe for some reason. If people and things can’t change for the better, what are we looking to do right now as a society? Do we end the human race because the human race is too problematic? No we try to grow and change as a community.

Let’s take it back to Entertainment. Many fairytales are problematic. Should Disney not make adaptations of them that make them less problematic? I don’t think so, and Disney clearly doesn’t think so.

Now let’s look at Splash Mountain. The original Brer Rabbit tales are important. The Joel Chandler Harris collection can be described as problematic. SotS is a bad adaptation of something problematic of something good. Splash was a good adaptation of a bad adaptation.

You still with me?

It’s possible to have a good adaptation of something bad, just as it is possible to have a bad adaptation of something good.

Similarly, bad people can adapt and become good people. Just look at Marvel’s posterboy actor RDJ.

I know I’m rambling, but I really don’t get this mentality that bad things must stay bad and can never be good, while at the same time, we’re trying to change a bad society into something good.

 

[disneygeek90]

So
Minorities can get a voice role playing a white character but not vice versa?

That’s not what I’m saying at all but I’m aware any explanation I could possibly do is futile so I’m not gonna waste my breath.

 

[Horizons1]

This sign will posted at the entry of the ride until progressive inclusive puppy dog and rainbow mountain opens.

 

[SilentWindODoom]

This thread has been moved to the Political forum - so as long as you are respectful towards others you can get as political as you wish.

Oops. Misunderstood the announcement. Thought he meant take political talk to a new thread over there and do only non-political talk in here, worrying the new posts I saw appearing were going to get the thread closed. Thanks.

And does that mean that Bart Simpson should be voiced at least by an adult male? To be honest, without those characters in The Simpsons, you do not have The Simpsons. It would seem the issue would be less with who is Voice ACTING but the hateful nature in which the character is portrayed. (Apu etc...)

Ooh, was with you until you called the honest working man "hateful".

 

[davis_unoxx]

The site that shall not be named is saying that Tokyo execs are discussing whether or not to change their splash

 

[aw14]

That’s not what I’m saying at all but I’m aware any explanation I could possibly do is futile so I’m not gonna waste my breath.

Are you then suggesting there is no explanation? At the end of the day, if we are looking for true "equality", then black voice actors should make up 13% of the voice acting population.

 

[Phil12]

What's your point here? Both groups are black.

It's how Motown got started by Barry Gordy. Doo-Wop! Incidentally "The Mom" knows a lot about Doo-Wop. Gordy got Smokey Robinson to record an "answer song" to the Silhouettes hit "Get a Job".

 

[celluloid]

Oops. Misunderstood the announcement. Thought he meant take political talk to a new thread over there and do only non-political talk in here, worrying the new posts I saw appearing were going to get the thread closed. Thanks.



Ooh, was with you until you called the honest working man "hateful".

I was speaking of the writing and directing that has hateful things. Not Hank A.