The Spirited Back Nine ...

[Goofyernmost]

I'm with these guys on this. Why would Disney spend billions on a fancy wrist band system to keep people on property and then turn around and support a publicly funded project that would make it easier for guests to leave their property.

Why would any business help promote and help provide transportation to their competitor?

 

[GoofGoof]

Why would any business help promote and help provide transportation to their competitor?

I think Universal or Sea World would break their backs trying to hand the money over to promote a transportation system connecting their parks to Disney. For Disney it makes no sense.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why would any business help promote and help provide transportation to their competitor?

Because it is good politics, especially since Reedy Creek Improvement District is eligible for and has received state funding.

 

[fillerup]

While Disney was in no way an enthusiastic supporter of the rail project, they did offer no-cost land in exchange for a station.

Probably figured it was a relatively low cost way to get a few additional guests and to avoid a very public black eye.

 

[lazyboy97o]

While Disney was in no way an enthusiastic supporter of the rail project, they did offer no-cost land in exchange for a station.

Probably figured it was a relatively low cost way to get a few additional guests and to avoid a very public black eye.

Or they figured the chances of the project really happening were slim to none. They could look good by being supportive but the status quo would never change. Disney had also said they would continue Magical Express, and train tickets for day trips would be far more expensive than current offerings.

 

[doctornick]

Even if Disney agreed, most transit projects are built with federal funds which will not be issued for a tourist oriented project.

While true, Disney is also a massive employer for Central Florida -- if you are going to build a public rail project that benefits the actual residents of the area, having a stop at WDW would make sense just for commuting purposes. It wouldn't just be tourists that could benefit, depending on what all the stops were on such a transit line. (Obviously, a line that just went between MCO and WDW would be used almost exclusively by tourists, though).

 

[fillerup]

The project as formulated was OIA to Convention Center to WDW to Lakeland to Tampa.

Almost zero value as a commuter option.

 

[roj2323]

The project as formulated was OIA to Convention Center to WDW to Lakeland to Tampa.

Almost zero value as a commuter option.

I think the cast members who live in Lakeland and Tampa would say otherwise.

 

[lazyboy97o]

While true, Disney is also a massive employer for Central Florida -- if you are going to build a public rail project that benefits the actual residents of the area, having a stop at WDW would make sense just for commuting purposes. It wouldn't just be tourists that could benefit, depending on what all the stops were on such a transit line. (Obviously, a line that just went between MCO and WDW would be used almost exclusively by tourists, though).

That would mean building a line that goes to areas where attractions and hospitality employees can afford to live. Those areas are not very well served by most proposals. There is also the issue of rail transit now being trendy and those employees being priced out of the neighborhood if the train is worthwhile for commuting.

 

[GoofGoof]

That would mean building a line that goes to areas where attractions and hospitality employees can afford to live. Those areas are not very well served by most proposals. There is also the issue of rail transit now being trendy and those employees being priced out of the neighborhood if the train is worthwhile for commuting.

Couldn't they just drive to the line and park in a lot? That's how most of the trains work around me. Some people do walk to the train station, but the majority still have to drive and then park in a lot.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Couldn't they just drive to the line and park in a lot? That's how most of the trains work around me. Some people do walk to the train station, but the majority still have to drive and then park in a lot.

In less dense areas, it is typically cheaper and faster to just drive the entire trip.

 

[FutureWorld1982]

I'm sure Disney could give away cash and you would find a way to implicate Disney in greed.

Wow. If you only knew anything about me...
I truly apologize for sharing my personal opinions on these boards. And I thought I had learned my lesson!

 

[George]

I think trains could be used to carry people to Disney World and more people would mean longer lines for churros. So, I am against trains and other transport that could be used for the public, such as, but not limited to, cars, planes, skateboards, windboards, parasails, roller blades, jet packs, camels, baby carriers, wagons, wagon trains, subways, metros, buses, ice skates, sleds, sled dogs pulling aforementioned sleds, carriages, balloons, steam boats, battleships, canoes, funiculars, helicopters, ski lifts, pogo sticks, monorails, birails, Lord of the Rings style giant and surprisingly friendly giant eagles, being shot of out a cannon, Iron man suits, roller skates, Yugos, etc.

 

[GoofGoof]

In less dense areas, it is typically cheaper and faster to just drive the entire trip.

This is true. Rail typically works most effective in suburban areas where people who work in a large urban area tend to live. It's usually either expensive or time consuming to drive into the city so people take the train. Much less effective in more rural areas. I don't know a lot about the area in question, but I've driven from Tampa to Orlando a few times and while there seem to be pockets of more dense population the bulk of the area is not densely populated.

 

[GoofGoof]

I think trains could be used to carry people to Disney World and more people would mean longer lines for churros. So, I am against trains and other transport that could be used for the public, such as, but not limited to, cars, planes, skateboards, windboards, parasails, roller blades, jet packs, camels, baby carriers, wagons, wagon trains, subways, metros, buses, ice skates, sleds, sled dogs pulling aforementioned sleds, carriages, balloons, steam boats, battleships, canoes, funiculars, helicopters, ski lifts, pogo sticks, monorails, birails, Lord of the Rings style giant and surprisingly friendly giant eagles, being shot of out a cannon, Iron man suits, roller skates, Yugos, etc.

An Iron Man suit wouldn't be allowed at WDW it would violate the Universal agreement

 

[xstech25]

Interestingly, Disney is helping fund and plan for the Anaheim streetcar, unlike the icy reception such transit plans have received from Disney execs in Orlando. Funny how that works, isn't it?

Probably because it's good for business in California and bad for business in Florida #common sense

 

[Mike C]

Wow. If you only knew anything about me...
I truly apologize for sharing my personal opinions on these boards. And I thought I had learned my lesson!

I agree with you, good business sense and greed are not mutually exclusive.

Disney also cutting entertainment and a bunch of the little touches and going cheap wherever they can. That's good business sense (only in short term, quick profit thinking), but definitely not good for customers, or in the case of the transit system, not the community and travelers.

You were right the first time, and there is nothing to apologize for.

 

[Dinardo]

Several light rail and heavy rail systems had been talked about in Orlando metro for over a decade. But Disney would only support any rail plan that avoided I-Drive, competing theme parks, and the Convention Center, and insisted any rail project had to offer direct service from the airport to WDW without intermediate stops. That Disney demand killed any ability to get the various projects off the ground because a metro area rail system must serve a variety of housing and employment centers, not just be an express train from the airport to WDW paid for by taxpayers.

A typical newspaper article from the 2000's... http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2003-10-27/news/0310270326_1_route-bee-line-Disney

With typical blunt "Our Way or the Highway" statements about local politicians from Disney execs of that era....
"Disney refuses to cooperate with a Bee Line train... "I'd be terribly surprised if any of the people on that authority would be willing to roll the dice," said Tom Lewis Jr., Disney vice president for transportation development."

Things were icy. And the plans went nowhere. And then Disney invented Magical Express.

SunRail finally got built a decade later, but it is a heavy rail commuter line from the northern suburbs to downtown. It's only 30 miles long and should have been Light Rail for ease of long term operation, but it was cheaper to use existing heavy rail tracks and so they are running heavy trains on old freight track for short stop/go distances. But at least it's a train carrying a whopping 3,000 riders per day.

SunRail doesn't serve the airport and gets nowhere near any theme parks or tourist centers, thus staying off Disney's radar.

I am by no means a local to the Orlando area - but the advantage for TDA to contribute to a streetcar direct to Disneyland via Harbor Blvd makes total sense business-wise. Aren't there many "partner" hotels on the same street. Getting them to Disneyland faster makes sense. Also, where is the nearest competition?

Disney World spent the same money (most likely more)- just in a different way - by building hotels on property. How many Disney World "partner" hotels are there in Orlando? Makes total sense business-wise - the ROI for Disney World's investment is easier to calculate and recoup.

Seriously though - did Disney "invent" Magical Express? Or did Mears understand the demand?

Am I being too obtuse?

 

[xstech25]

The Los Angeles area itself has 15 million people living in it, that alone explains why Disney would want rail systems going into Anaheim.
In Orlando Disney runs a massive hotel and entertainment empire and it makes no sense for them to allow people to just step on a train and be at competing entertainment venues and cheaper hotels.

 

[fillerup]

I think the cast members who live in Lakeland and Tampa would say otherwise.

Doubtful