The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[GoofGoof]

Again, I've said this countless times before. The solution to the Fastpass+ concerns are below:

• Reduce advanced bookings from 3 to 1
• Upon park check in, guests can make an additional Fastpass+ reservation
• After a Fastpass+ reservation is used or expires, guests can make additional reservations. No guest can have more than 2 at any one time
• Eliminate tiers
• Eliminate Fastpass+ where it doesn't belong (Shows, higher capacity attractions on mid to low traffic days)
  
• This eliminates the issue with Fastpass+ for nighttime shows

I would be on board with this.

I think that if the majority of people have a poor experience or feel there is way too much planning the system will change. It already has some with adding extra reservations day of beyond 3 and park hopping. I don't believe that Disney will just keep the system if it's really unpopular. I'm still of the opinion that the most negatively impacted guests were the fastpass commandos and hard core regulars who knew best how to work the old system to their advantage. While they are a large portion of the group posting here I think they may make up less of the overall guest group. A whole lot of people never used legacy FP.

 

[Violiav]

A friend of mine who came back from her trip a couple of months ago called me ranting about MM+. She likes WDW and has visited several times, but she's not fanatical about it. She stayed onsite, but she apparently didn't book her FP+ before she left and was having issues trying to book in the parks when she got there. She said it was a miserable trip for the whole family and they won't be returning any time soon. She attributes most of her park issues directly to MM+.

Snip.

It really sounds like the issues were of her own doing and then she took it out on her family. She didn't do fps in advance despite knowing full well about it and having access to various media.
The system really isn't difficult. It's not complicated. It's almost absurdly easy. You go on the website, or phone, pick the ride. That's it. All you have to do is show up within the hour window. How is that difficult?
Don't like what's available? Stand in the standby line.
Rocket science it's not. It's like those people that can't program their DVR/VCR/microwave. Not hard things to do.
I mean, I understand stress- but for Pete's sake it's a vacation. Don't over plan and then try to rush around when you get distracted having fun. The -will- make your party miserable. And that's on you, not a piece of simple tech. Miss a fastpass time? Go back to having fun. The world keeps spinning.

 

[bhg469]

It is easy but majorly flawed and wasn't necessary. You don't have to use it but those that chose not to or are just late to the game are stuck with increasd wait times. The longer waits do exist and it is not a myth..

No one asked for a better fast pass but one was forced on us. Only problem is, it's not better.

 

[AEfx]

I know all of these stories are anecdotal, but it does point to the fact that it's not just the "Disney naysayers" who have issues with MM+. I actually didn't have any major issues with it in October (although I don't like the concept on principle), but I feel like I had enough lead time to understand how to use it properly. Imagine the people planning their once-in-a-lifetime trip trying to figure out all the things the hoops they need to jump through just to make their trip go smoothly. I would hate to be in the shoes of someone planning their first WDW vacation right now.

That's the irony here. What was one of the biggest guest complaints to begin with? How complicated the entire endeavor of a Disney vacation was - which required 400-page guide books and dozens of hours of internet research. And what is the solution? Why, let's make it more complicated, and ADD technology to the mix! Beautiful!

The difference now is, the varying levels of knowledge are excruciatingly obvious to park guests. I never had sympathy for folks who didn't get FP to begin with - read the one page summary in the guide page, it even has cute little animal pictures to show you how. If you didn't get that, you probably miss a lot in life. I always laughed at those who gave folks in the FP line dirty looks - dude, everyone has the same chance. Think ahead a tiny bit.

Aside from that, however, most stuff wasn't obvious and "in your face" that required a lot of advance planning. EMH was, but also understandable and clear. That was really the extend of the "Caste" system (and in most cases EMH is to be avoided anyway, so they are actually doing you a favor). I'm sure lots of folks don't even know Cindy has a breakfast. Regardless, unless you were paying for a Disney guide, pretty much everything was an open playing field when it came to attractions.

Now, not only is that not the case (if you have the magical bracelet, you are a potential winner) but even if you are one of the lucky ones, you still have to win the Internet game of making ride reservations before hand, if you consider boxing yourself into certain parks/attractions on certain days or losing the benefit completely to be "winning". (Maybe the sad, pathetic Charlie Sheen version of "Winning?").

It's almost comical - the biggest semi-legitimate complaint of FP to begin with was that "I don't want to plan that far ahead of my day" - it's like they sat there and said, "Oh yeah? You think that's bad? Here, make your ride reservations THREE MONTHS in advance, when you don't know what the weather will be like, or crowds, or anything else - for a five minute ride - that'll teach them! BWHAHAHAHA!"

 

[jt04]

How terribly sad.


That it didnt work

Sometimes I think you are right. But I am addicted to the wdwMagic.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I always laughed at those who gave folks in the FP line dirty looks - dude, everyone has the same chance. Think ahead a tiny bit.

There are people to this day who think FP is an extra-charge feature.

Universal, and some smaller regional parks, help to feed this kind of thinking though.

 

[bhg469]

There are people to this day who think FP is an extra-charge feature.

Universal, and some smaller regional parks, help to feed this kind of thinking though.

It probably should have always been.

 

[wogwog]

It is easy but majorly flawed and wasn't necessary. You don't have to use it but those that chose not to or are just late to the game are stuck with increasd wait times. The longer waits do exist and it is not a myth..

No one asked for a better fast pass but one was forced on us. Only problem is, it's not better.

But Iger likes it. So.......until he unlikes it.....

 

[crispy]

It really sounds like the issues were of her own doing and then she took it out on her family. She didn't do fps in advance despite knowing full well about it and having access to various media.
The system really isn't difficult. It's not complicated. It's almost absurdly easy. You go on the website, or phone, pick the ride. That's it. All you have to do is show up within the hour window. How is that difficult?
Don't like what's available? Stand in the standby line.
Rocket science it's not. It's like those people that can't program their DVR/VCR/microwave. Not hard things to do.
I mean, I understand stress- but for Pete's sake it's a vacation. Don't over plan and then try to rush around when you get distracted having fun. The -will- make your party miserable. And that's on you, not a piece of simple tech. Miss a fastpass time? Go back to having fun. The world keeps spinning.

You know absolutely nothing about my friend so please refrain from making disparaging comments about her. Insane lines at attractions, young children, and the inability to even make a FP+ reservation because the line at the kiosk was insane can easily make for a miserable trip. She didn't understand the need to make FP+ reservations ahead of time, and I think that's on Disney more than her. She has visited the parks on several previous occasions and thought she had a good grasp on touring and didn't understand how exactly things had changed with MM+. I don't think she is in the minority by any stretch of the imagination.

By your own admission, you have never even visited WDW. You may be shocked at how easy it ISN'T once you get there.

Your last point is very interesting. Disney is the one who is making vacation stressful by requiring ADRs at 180 days, FP+ at 60 days, etc. Most people want to go ride a few rides, see some characters, and have fun. Unfortunately, it just isn't that easy.

 

[AEfx]

There are people to this day who think FP is an extra-charge feature.

Universal, and some smaller regional parks, help to feed this kind of thinking though.

True, even though I think Disney was the first, wasn't it?

In any case, you are correct - and for those folks - they probably have a very hard time deciding what leg to put in their pants first each day, too. It was so clearly explained in the guide map (by characters no less!) the average seven-year-old should be able to understand it. These are also the same folks that always go to the left most line, even when there are fewer people in the right, etc. Or swear to God that Jaws used to be in The Studios and the CM is stupid for not knowing that.

I could go on LOL...but I don't need to. You know the folks.

 

[wogwog]

There are people to this day who think FP is an extra-charge feature.

Universal, and some smaller regional parks, help to feed this kind of thinking though.

Oh it is an extra charge. All rolled into the hotel rates. 5 star charge for a 3 star room, and so on down the line. Think Magical Express is free? Think again. Disney just has the resort fee included in the room rate. They just do not list it separately like a regular hotel. Think you don't pay for those rubber bands. Think again.

 

[KingdomofDreams]

It really sounds like the issues were of her own doing and then she took it out on her family. She didn't do fps in advance despite knowing full well about it and having access to various media.
The system really isn't difficult. It's not complicated. It's almost absurdly easy. You go on the website, or phone, pick the ride. That's it. All you have to do is show up within the hour window. How is that difficult?
Don't like what's available? Stand in the standby line.
Rocket science it's not. It's like those people that can't program their DVR/VCR/microwave. Not hard things to do.
I mean, I understand stress- but for Pete's sake it's a vacation. Don't over plan and then try to rush around when you get distracted having fun. The -will- make your party miserable. And that's on you, not a piece of simple tech. Miss a fastpass time? Go back to having fun. The world keeps spinning.

^ This! Totally agree! We haven't experienced the parks using the new system yet, but I've done the planning and frankly I feel very confident that having our plan in place and our initial 3 FP's secured for each day is going to make for a much more relaxed and enjoyable trip. For example: We fly in mid-afternoon and after resort check-in, plan to head to HS for the evening. With the previous FP set-up, we'd have virtually zero chance of doing what we want to do that evening. Because of FP+, we have TSMM, TOT and another ride locked down. It's not as great as Uni offers with on-site resort guest Express, but it's way better than the old FP system.

 

[AEfx]

Oh it is an extra charge. All rolled into the hotel rates. 5 star charge for a 3 star room, and so on down the line. Think Magical Express is free? Think again. Disney just has the resort fee included in the room rate. They just do not list it separately like a regular hotel. Think you don't pay for those rubber bands. Think again.

He's not talking about MM+ or FP+.

He's talking about the old, standard, FP system where any guest with a valid ticket could walk up and get a slip of paper. Presumably the infrastructure/kiosks/etc. were paid for long ago, and the only ongoing cost was the little slips of paper. Yes, everything is worked in somehow - but his point was, even after what, 15 years of existing, some folks were just so frakking stupid they thought that the original FP was an upcharge service, not that anyone who had a ticket could use it as much as the system would allow for free.

 

[tirian]

I had typed a brilliant, detailed response to why the system itself causes complications and stress, but until you actually use it yourself, it's hard to understand *why* it's so exasperating.

I've used FP+ many times, going all the way back to when they tested green cards with unlimited ride reservations. Sure, in the early days it was convenient to book attractions in advance; but once the system matured and I had to pick Soarin' or Test Track with no hope of ever getting a FP for both in the same day, FP+ quickly lost its charm.

But I think there's one thing that de-rails your, um, contribution to the thread and challenges anyone who defends MM+: Disney itself considers MM+ to be such a disaster that plans to expand it to DL and DLP have been postponed indefinitely.

It really sounds like the issues were of her own doing and then she took it out on her family. She didn't do fps in advance despite knowing full well about it and having access to various media.
The system really isn't difficult. It's not complicated. It's almost absurdly easy. You go on the website, or phone, pick the ride. That's it. All you have to do is show up within the hour window. How is that difficult?
Don't like what's available? Stand in the standby line.
Rocket science it's not. It's like those people that can't program their DVR/VCR/microwave. Not hard things to do.
I mean, I understand stress- but for Pete's sake it's a vacation. Don't over plan and then try to rush around when you get distracted having fun. The -will- make your party miserable. And that's on you, not a piece of simple tech. Miss a fastpass time? Go back to having fun. The world keeps spinning.

 

[tirian]

Based on everything I know about the system, I would follow your ideas except that I wouldn't allow any FPs in advance.

MyMagic works well for in-park enhancements like Talking Mickey and dining plans. With rides, however, there aren't enough E-ticket attractions in each park to spread out Guests with advanced reservations. Ops knew this and warned execs for a long time; nobody at the proper level of power had the cajones to tell Burbank that tech for the sake of tech was a waste of 2.5 billion dollars...and counting...

Again, I've said this countless times before. The solution to the Fastpass+ concerns are below:

• Reduce advanced bookings from 3 to 1
• Upon park check in, guests can make an additional Fastpass+ reservation
• After a Fastpass+ reservation is used or expires, guests can make additional reservations. No guest can have more than 2 at any one time
• Eliminate tiers
• Eliminate Fastpass+ where it doesn't belong (Shows, higher capacity attractions on mid to low traffic days)
  
• This eliminates the issue with Fastpass+ for nighttime shows

 

[CDavid]

I've heard that a lot lately too, and despite my post, I'm generally not a "Doom and Gloomer." Disney has a real problem here.

The real question is to what extent do the powers-that-be within Disney realize just what a boondoggle this has become? They'll continue trying to prop up a crumbling program rather than admit to a failed project (not a good career move) and making bold steps to correct the most serious shortcomings.

It really sounds like the issues were of her own doing and then she took it out on her family. She didn't do fps in advance despite knowing full well about it and having access to various media.
The system really isn't difficult. It's not complicated. It's almost absurdly easy. You go on the website, or phone, pick the ride. That's it. All you have to do is show up within the hour window. How is that difficult?
Don't like what's available? Stand in the standby line.
Rocket science it's not. It's like those people that can't program their DVR/VCR/microwave. Not hard things to do.

The VCR is indeed simple to program. But there were enough people who couldn't do it that add-on products were developed and marketed (VCR+ codes, on-screen prompts, etc.) to try and streamline the process. You shouldn't almost require an instruction manual or even an App to have a good time in a theme park. A theme park visit should not even remotely be comparable to setting a VCR recording. When it is, you've got serious problems.

It doesn't matter how simple MM+ may be when it adds layers of complexity and planning - which most people are not inclined to do - to what is supposed to be a relaxing vacation.

The guests' problems shouldn't have existed in the first place.

It's almost comical - the biggest semi-legitimate complaint of FP to begin with was that "I don't want to plan that far ahead of my day" - it's like they sat there and said, "Oh yeah? You think that's bad? Here, make your ride reservations THREE MONTHS in advance, when you don't know what the weather will be like, or crowds, or anything else - for a five minute ride - that'll teach them! BWHAHAHAHA!"

I always thought the most ludicrous aspect of MM+ was the option to pre-order meals far in advance. I know there are a some obsessive-compulsive planners among Disney visitors, but for nearly everyone that is just silly.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Based on everything I know about the system, I would follow your ideas except that I wouldn't allow any FPs in advance.

MyMagic works well for in-park enhancements like Talking Mickey and dining plans. With rides, however, there aren't enough E-ticket attractions in each park to spread out Guests with advanced reservations. Ops knew this and warned execs for a long time; nobody at the proper level of power had the cajones to tell Burbank that tech for the sake of tech was a waste of 2.5 billion dollars...and counting...

Don't get me wrong, I hate the advanced booking as well, I just assume that the insistence would be one advanced booking, if for no other reason than to save face.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But I think there's one thing that de-rails your, um, contribution to the thread and challenges anyone who defends MM+: Disney itself considers MM+ to be such a disaster that plans to expand it to DL and DLP have been postponed indefinitely.

Unless they're speaking to the Oriental Land Company, then I'm sure it's the best thing ever and they really need to buy it so as to maintain those contractually obligated Disney standards.

 

[wogwog]

Don't get me wrong, I hate the advanced booking as well, I just assume that the insistence would be one advanced booking, if for no other reason than to save face.

Burbank is not worried about saving face. It is more about saving another body part below the waist and in the rear.

 

[WDW1974]

I'd argue Carsland is above Potter 1.0 - with the exception of merchandise. Buutttt.. Potter came first, and I give credit to Potter v1.0 to being the bold one. The genius behind the integrated food, the details (like the windows and posters)...Potter's success (IMO) proved that level of detail would work and pay off. Potter v1.0 is more influential to the industry, but I'd wager many might like Carsland better as a land. I have a huge affinity for neon, so the fact Disney carried through with that street vision is hard for me to not gush over.

I love them both equally, but they affect me differently. Cars Land actually puts my love for cars and the desert and Rte 66 all in one very cool package that reminds me of trips with family and friends in the real California desert. ... Potter The First just takes me totally into a fantasy world from the films, but it sells it 100%. I think they were both bold, but since care and class went into creating them well ... I don't think there was any risk they wouldn't be huge hits.

Diagon Alley looks reminds me of the guy that prospects.. and then puts everything he has behind a hit. It shows what is possible when there is a 'all in' agenda. Just freaking mashing the gas pedal on all fronts... scale, detail, integration of product, dedication to push what might be 'show over profit' elements.. its amazing.

Yes, it is.

Can we say... Diagon Alley as a setting, integration, and story telling will surpass the Disney concept of Main Street? I think it easily beats the 1990s+ Disney Main Street. Do you think it surpasses the original?

I'll have to experience DA to truly judge. Beating the current version of MSUSA isn't very tough, but the original? The original concept of time/place/theme/immersion was the birth of the industry, really.