The Spirited Seventh Heaven ...

[Violiav]

You know absolutely nothing about my friend so please refrain from making disparaging comments about her. Insane lines at attractions, young children, and the inability to even make a FP+ reservation because the line at the kiosk was insane can easily make for a miserable trip. She didn't understand the need to make FP+ reservations ahead of time, and I think that's on Disney more than her. She has visited the park previously and thought she had a good grasp on touring and didn't understand how exactly things had changed with MM+. I don't think she is in the minority by any stretch of the imagination.

How is her lack of reading ability on anyone else but her? The info is there in mailings, on the website. It's just there. Her being wrong is on her.
How is taking young children to a busy theme park on anyone else but her? MM+ didn't make her.

By your own admission, you have never even visited WDW. You may be shocked at how easy it ISN'T once you get there.

You show up, wait in some lines, make some decisions. How is that anything but easy? I'm going in beginning of July. In no world do I expect to walk on rides that time of year. That's crazy.

Your last point is very interesting. Disney is the one who is making vacation stressful by requiring ADRs at 180 days, FP+ at 60 days, etc. Most people want to go ride a few rides, see some characters, and have fun. Unfortunately, it just isn't that easy.

No they don't require ADRs and FP+ at those days. That's when the window opens. You don't have to use it. Is the hot popular thing gonna be tough to get? Yep. Just like in real life. At 15 days out there's still plenty of table service options for me to choose from. I don't want to, so I'm not gonna. The world won't end if I don't get to eat at Be Our Guest or (insert other popular place). I bet I can even further customize my fastpasses. But we're happy with out selections thus far, so I'm not concerned. I'm a parent and we're dragging 4 kids along in a blended family situation, so there's bound to be stress. I'd still rather be stressed at Disney than at work. But I'm aware the anxiety generated is my own, and nothing to do with Disney.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Again, this South Park clip is the best solution to this whole My Magic Plus mess

 

[twebber55]

^ This! Totally agree! We haven't experienced the parks using the new system yet, but I've done the planning and frankly I feel very confident that having our plan in place and our initial 3 FP's secured for each day is going to make for a much more relaxed and enjoyable trip. For example: We fly in mid-afternoon and after resort check-in, plan to head to HS for the evening. With the previous FP set-up, we'd have virtually zero chance of doing what we want to do that evening. Because of FP+, we have TSMM, TOT and another ride locked down. It's not as great as Uni offers with on-site resort guest Express, but it's way better than the old FP system.

agree
I just got back two weeks and ago and all of our crew of 11 liked it better
its not worth the cost but its better than running all over the park to get fast passes and getting extra fast passes at MK is pretty easy.....

 

[Cesar R M]

The public is starting to wise up to it, too. Word-of-mouth is leaking across America and it's not good.

First a little bit of perspective. As @marni1971, @Lee, and @WDW1974 already know, at the beginning of this year I left the WDC for much greener pastures. This is why I've pulled back from being an "Insider"—although I still have many contacts within the company, I can no longer personally verify things, and I don't want to spread a lot of BS.

I'm now almost across the United States, working with affluent coworkers in a well-known company. Although we're actually closer to DL here, many of my coworkers are long-time WDW fans and a few are DVC members. Everyone knows I came from WDW.

Nobody has anything good to say about their recent experiences.

Everyone who has been to WDW in the last few years complains to me about it. There's no reason to list it all here, but the gist is that people finally feel that they've been "had." Some of the WDW fans go on Disney cruises now. The DVC members are using their resorts as bases but traveling off Disney property. Those who have experienced MM+ have had significant problems. Others complain that Epcot is stale, the food is lousy, etc.

The biggest complaint is that there's too much planning involved; four people who used MM+ told me the experience was so bad, they're not returning for at least a couple of years.

People have friends who returned and warned that the FP lines are insane. Moms and dads are talking about it at ballgames and complaining that the prices "just aren't worth it anymore." Last week, someone canceled his 7-day WDW vacation because his wife heard so much negativity about WDW that she wants to go to DL now.

I realize my story is anecdotal, but my organization thrives on being optimistic. If the word-of-mouth is negative here, people are complaining everywhere.

Now here's the kicker. My Disney-loving coworkers want to love the Mouse. They have Disney paraphernalia in their offices and cubicles; they're still taking Disney cruises or shortened trips to WDW. And I guarantee they all spend plenty of money when they're in Florida. They're complaining but they're still going! However, they're finding it hard to justify the prices and overall stress when Disney hasn't given them much of a reason to return.*

It seems MM+ is killing the golden goose's reputation, not the goose itself.

*I mentioned NFL at lunch last week and the overall opinion was that nobody was rushing to Florida to ride a "kiddy coaster." Disney took such a long time opening NFL that few people still think of it as being "new."

wow, that rings very bad bells about the general consensus and view of WDW as a resort.

I think Spirit was very right on mentioning how WDW is transforming, sinking for most people(popularity wise) and making it only be visited by those who are first comers (aka the "once in a lifetime" visitor).

 

[WDW1974]

I would respectfully argue that Carsland has only one decent attraction, and it's a retread of Test Track that Epcot actually does better. Sure, the same ride system can be used in different ways (think of JTTCOTE at TDS); but with RSR and TT both being about cars, TR actually wins in my book, despite not having AAs. It's simply more exciting.

I concede that this is a matter of personal opinion!

Yes, opinion most definitely. I think TT is the most overrated attraction at WDW (although I admit TSMM is a close second). RSRs is a complete attraction for me, and the outdoor racing portion may not be as fast as TT, but it certainly is more themed than driving over backstage Epcot in all its glory.

And I think CL has two excellent attractions. Mater's Junkyard Jamboree may be a carnie ride, but it is a fun well-themed one. It always (like my favorite fanbois) leaves me with a smile on my face! ... Luigi's was simply a vanity project for John Lasseter and WDI and has no real use.

Potter 1.0 felt more complete than Carsland because of the extreme attention to detail throughout the area, like the screamer letter in the window, the animated posters, and the FX that always work throughout Zonko's and Ollivander's.

How long do you think it would take Disney to decide all those animated posters wouldn't be worth maintaining if HP were at WDW? TDO can't keep the Zanzibar sign in Adventureland working properly, let alone the old whirligigs at Epcot or the Luxo lamp in the Studios.

Oh c'mon, we know Disney sets the standard for details and maintaining things. ...

 

[tirian]

They've acknowledged it enough to indefinitely postpone (that's usually "cancel" in Disney Speak) the FP+ system at DL and DLP.

The blame has been pinned onto mid-level managers and third-party computer programmers. I don't know how much responsibility the execs themselves are actually admitting to having. No amount of computer programming will increase attraction count or things people are interested in. More guests want to ride Soarin' than watch Captain EO; telling them to just stand in line hardly improves your reputation, and it definitely doesn't encourage good PR. Then again, as many people have pointed out, if FP weren't holding up the queues in the first place, wait times wouldn't be so long.

Disney fans know that theoretically, the FP holds an existing place in line and the line would be "just as long anyway," but that makes three faulty assumptions.

First, it assumes that you would be there physically at that time of day. Then it assumes you're not going to ride other things in the meantime, thereby increasing wait times across the park. FP also assumes that attractions are running at maximum efficiency with full staffing and no breakdowns.

I like FP and I use it, yet I would never pretend it doesn't make standby lines longer.

Case in point: with the addition of FP+ to POTC, an entire queue and loading dock are shut off to the standby queue. Yet most guests know enough about WDW to know that they should be getting a FP for a mountain or a M&G, leaving the POTC FP queue mostly empty. An attraction designed to cycle thousands of Guests an hour is operating at half of its capacity because a loading dock often sits there, completely unused.

The real question is to what extent do the powers-that-be within Disney realize just what a boondoggle this has become? They'll continue trying to prop up a crumbling program rather than admit to a failed project (not a good career move) and making bold steps to correct the most serious shortcomings.



The VCR is indeed simple to program. But there were enough people who couldn't do it that add-on products were developed and marketed (VCR+ codes, on-screen prompts, etc.) to try and streamline the process. You shouldn't almost require an instruction manual or even an App to have a good time in a theme park. A theme park visit should not even remotely be comparable to setting a VCR recording. When it is, you've got serious problems.

It doesn't matter how simple MM+ may be when it adds layers of complexity and planning - which most people are not inclined to do - to what is supposed to be a relaxing vacation.

The guests' problems shouldn't have existed in the first place.



I always thought the most ludicrous aspect of MM+ was the option to pre-order meals far in advance. I know there are a some obsessive-compulsive planners among Disney visitors, but for nearly everyone that is just silly.

 

[Mickey_777]

We found the system incredibly easy to use. Used it for the first time last month. Had the NGE stuff not cost all that it did, I'd have no problem with FP+. I would have preferred new e-tickets for all four parks just like everybody else but our last trip was our most stress free to date. I did not dislike rolling into the parks at 11 a.m. with our (soarin, splash, TSMM etc.) fastpasses already set up. I didn't dislike it one bit.

 

[crispy]

How is her lack of reading ability on anyone else but her? The info is there in mailings, on the website. It's just there. Her being wrong is on her.
How is taking young children to a busy theme park on anyone else but her? MM+ didn't make her.

You show up, wait in some lines, make some decisions. How is that anything but easy? I'm going in beginning of July. In no world do I expect to walk on rides that time of year. That's crazy.


No they don't require ADRs and FP+ at those days. That's when the window opens. You don't have to use it. Is the hot popular thing gonna be tough to get? Yep. Just like in real life. At 15 days out there's still plenty of table service options for me to choose from. I don't want to, so I'm not gonna. The world won't end if I don't get to eat at Be Our Guest or (insert other popular place). I bet I can even further customize my fastpasses. But we're happy with out selections thus far, so I'm not concerned. I'm a parent and we're dragging 4 kids along in a blended family situation, so there's bound to be stress. I'd still rather be stressed at Disney than at work. But I'm aware the anxiety generated is my own, and nothing to do with Disney.

As a said earlier, you don't know her or her situation so making rude comments about her inability to read is just unnecessary. She works full-time, has two young children, and was basically a single parent for several months before the trip because her husband has been out of the country nursing a sick parent. I forgive her for not knowing the ends and outs of MM+. She had been to Disney, thought she understood how it worked, and wanted a nice trip for her family. I don't think that is unreasonable.

 

[Cesar R M]

What could go wrong with that? The rubber bands have such a good performance history. I would use a restroom in the lobby before going to the room just in case.

You will need a FP+ to the themed local bathroom.

 

[tirian]

I think my boredom with Cars and hatred for Cars 2 have affected my ability to enjoy RSR.

I'm ashamed.

Yes, opinion most definitely. I think TT is the most overrated attraction at WDW (although I admit TSMM is a close second). RSRs is a complete attraction for me, and the outdoor racing portion may not be as fast as TT, but it certainly is more themed than driving over backstage Epcot in all its glory.

And I think CL has two excellent attractions. Mater's Junkyard Jamboree may be a carnie ride, but it is a fun well-themed one. It always (like my favorite fanbois) leaves me with a smile on my face! ... Luigi's was simply a vanity project for John Lasseter and WDI and has no real use.



Oh c'mon, we know Disney sets the standard for details and maintaining things. ...

 

[Cesar R M]

Time to jump out in front of a rumor and make a whole new set of enemies...

The Avatar boat ride has not been pushed back and there is no Phase 2. There is what WDI and Cameron's firm agreed upon to build and nothing else. Whatever pressures exist from operations side or Burbank to reduce budgets, they are what they are. But they cannot derail this project. Perhaps this is why such a weak slate of attractions is planned for WDW until 2017?

There is an aerial photo going around that shows the construction site as of yesterday or the day before. The site has been cleared literally to the fullest extent possible with the intent of utilizing every inch of it. That doesn't speak of a project that suddenly experienced cutbacks.

I think maybe a lot of people *want* to hear that this boat ride has been cancelled and that is why this rumor is going around so fast. But is not true. Sorry.

Here is the Avatar info pheneix posted that the op thanked pheneix for.

IF that is true, then good for Cameron.. he should stay firm and not let some beancounter destroy his imagined world.
No surprise now on why Rowling gave disney the finger on Harry Potter.
Can you imagined if Rasulo the "budget scissor-hands" man.. had a go at the original HP plans?

 

[tirian]

When it works, it works; the challenge is getting average guests who don't understand the system to use it properly. They already had problems with FP 1.0!

We found the system incredibly easy to use. Used it for the first time last month. Had the NGE stuff not cost all that it did, I'd have no problem with FP+. I would have preferred new e-tickets for all four parks just like everybody else but our last trip was our most stress free to date. I did not dislike rolling into the parks at 11 a.m. with our (soarin, splash, TSMM etc.) fastpasses already set up. I didn't dislike it one bit.

 

[WDW1974]

Certainly more animation stuff in there... but the details in Carsland are equally to the n-th degree. (and ironic that DIsney really was the innovator in that space.. but lacks much of that in the shops in Carsland.. but one could argue, would it fit the setting?)

I think the car culture stuff is probably lost on more people than the wizard stuff. I think the biggest disappointment, and the element that would sink my position more than anything is the merchandise. Carsland falls well short in execution there compared to Potter. And Diagon Alley has taken that to even greater extremes.

It's that merchandise and it's presentation that actually sparked my thought about the comparison to Main Street.. which is famous for the extreme levels of authenticity and detail.

I think the car culture gene runs deep in the USA, so I'd disagree that more folks are into wizards. I'd venture to say more folks are into cars (no the films) than they are into Star Wars.

And I love the merchandise selection in Cars Land. I was afraid there would be Tink hoodies and Grumpy tees and generic DL logo items when I returned last month. But, no, they have new lines of Cars-themed items AND many unique non-Disney items from car culture and Route 66.

 

[Cesar R M]

I still go commando every time I visit Orlando. Makes the humidity easier to deal with.

the wind breeze and all?

That's the irony here. What was one of the biggest guest complaints to begin with? How complicated the entire endeavor of a Disney vacation was - which required 400-page guide books and dozens of hours of internet research. And what is the solution? Why, let's make it more complicated, and ADD technology to the mix! Beautiful!

The difference now is, the varying levels of knowledge are excruciatingly obvious to park guests. I never had sympathy for folks who didn't get FP to begin with - read the one page summary in the guide page, it even has cute little animal pictures to show you how. If you didn't get that, you probably miss a lot in life. I always laughed at those who gave folks in the FP line dirty looks - dude, everyone has the same chance. Think ahead a tiny bit.

Aside from that, however, most stuff wasn't obvious and "in your face" that required a lot of advance planning. EMH was, but also understandable and clear. That was really the extend of the "Caste" system (and in most cases EMH is to be avoided anyway, so they are actually doing you a favor). I'm sure lots of folks don't even know Cindy has a breakfast. Regardless, unless you were paying for a Disney guide, pretty much everything was an open playing field when it came to attractions.

Now, not only is that not the case (if you have the magical bracelet, you are a potential winner) but even if you are one of the lucky ones, you still have to win the Internet game of making ride reservations before hand, if you consider boxing yourself into certain parks/attractions on certain days or losing the benefit completely to be "winning". (Maybe the sad, pathetic Charlie Sheen version of "Winning?").

It's almost comical - the biggest semi-legitimate complaint of FP to begin with was that "I don't want to plan that far ahead of my day" - it's like they sat there and said, "Oh yeah? You think that's bad? Here, make your ride reservations THREE MONTHS in advance, when you don't know what the weather will be like, or crowds, or anything else - for a five minute ride - that'll teach them! BWHAHAHAHA!"

Honestly, when I went on my first ever trip to WDW . I had no idea about FP+ and paper FP.
The papers they gave us with the resort, parks tickets..etc had not a single mention of these.
But they sure gave us magicbands (which worked well for dinning plan + purchasing extras)

 

[WDW1974]

Tokyo DisneySea is a great achievement, but it does not compare to what has been accomplished inside Diagon Alley and Hogwarts Express. Sorry.

Well, when I am lucky enough to get up there, I'll judge it for myself. ... But I have a hard time believing that Potter 2.0 is so great that it will raise the rest of UNI-FLA above TDS. The reason TDS amazes is because the entire park is so damn incredible. Not simply Mysterious Island/Mount Prometheus.

I'll place my unbridled enthusiasm wherever I damn well please, thank you.

I get the excitement. I am excited and psyched to experience the new world. I just won't fall into the trap of saying this is something that no one will ever be able to top. I'd like to think this isn't the pinnacle of design, just the start of an amazing new age of creativity in the business.

 

[flynnibus]

I think the car culture gene runs deep in the USA, so I'd disagree that more folks are into wizards. I'd venture to say more folks are into cars (no the films) than they are into Star Wars.

Our generation and the one before appreciates the car culture of the 50s as an american icon.. Americana. I don't know if that same respect resonates with the 20 somethings and below. For them it's all cars the movie and nothing else. The fact it's more than just the movie is what makes it strong to me (in part because of the good genes of the movie).

And I love the merchandise selection in Cars Land. I was afraid there would be Tink hoodies and Grumpy tees and generic DL logo items when I returned last month. But, no, they have new lines of Cars-themed items AND many unique non-Disney items from car culture and Route 66.

I liked the merch that was in the back near RSR.. and they avoided the 'generic disneyland store' but I didn't buy that much honestly. I give it a solid B to B+.. but the wizard's merch tops it easily IMO. In both 'cool' and stuff you might actually wear.

I walked out of carsland with nothing carsland merch... but I did buy two pieces of starwars merch in Tomorrowland. Two pieces I get lots of comments on too

 

[flynnibus]

I'll have to experience DA to truly judge. Beating the current version of MSUSA isn't very tough, but the original? The original concept of time/place/theme/immersion was the birth of the industry, really.

Certainly a piece of history... and respected for what it set out to do.. but from what I've seen so far.. this seems to top it IMO. The one angle I don't see DA topping though is that love of the main street vehicle and the horse drawn trollys. DA has nothing in that dimension...

 

[Cesar R M]

True, even though I think Disney was the first, wasn't it?

In any case, you are correct - and for those folks - they probably have a very hard time deciding what leg to put in their pants first each day, too. It was so clearly explained in the guide map (by characters no less!) the average seven-year-old should be able to understand it. These are also the same folks that always go to the left most line, even when there are fewer people in the right, etc. Or swear to God that Jaws used to be in The Studios and the CM is stupid for not knowing that.

I could go on LOL...but I don't need to. You know the folks.

I think you need to broaden your mind a little... Because nothing is as obvious as you say it is.. (specially if you take into consideration that everyone starts as a newbie in everything)


In my case, I 'm someone who you wouldn't consider "Stupid" nor a man who has trouble deciding "which leg goes first" in my pants.

Last year was my first ever visit to WDW. And despite how meticulous I am regarding planning...
there was NOT A SINGLE SHEET OF PAPER informing us of what FP was.. nor in the papers the resort gave us (including the magicbands packages) nor in the papers our Vendor operator gave us(the travelagency).

I had no idea about the "FASTPASS" thing Until I started to notice these lines everywhere at Magic Kingdom, with the big "FastPass" logo next to the normal standby line.. I wondered if it was a "Plus" or "paid deluxe" version I was not informed of.
CMS were so busy arranging and shoving us to the correct line, I had no time to ask (being partially deaf doesn't help either)

It was not until I was visiting Epcot when they finally informed us correctly their functionality and the generals about it and how it was free and where to find the machines.
Of course, the only time I tried to check the machines, there was NOONE to ask questions for.

Thanks god the wait times weren't that bad when I visited (very light crowds except on saturday) and managed to check most of the parks.

Oh it is an extra charge. All rolled into the hotel rates. 5 star charge for a 3 star room, and so on down the line. Think Magical Express is free? Think again. Disney just has the resort fee included in the room rate. They just do not list it separately like a regular hotel. Think you don't pay for those rubber bands. Think again.

Maybe it could help if they add restrictions to transportation.
Lower the prices of everything, but the monorail and buses can only be used if you have an active magicband.
Make them work like they should (reduce freeloaders and make the magicbands seem to pay themselves)
Purists might get a bit annoyed of course..

 

[Violiav]

As a said earlier, you don't know her or her situation so making rude comments about her inability to read is just unnecessary. She works full-time, has two young children, and was basically a single parent for several months before the trip because her husband has been out of the country nursing a sick parent. I forgive her for not knowing the ends and outs of MM+. She had been to Disney, thought she understood how it worked, and wanted a nice trip for her family. I don't think that is unreasonable.

You're the one that brought your friend up using subjective words like "miserable" without actual context.

 

[Cesar R M]

Our generation and the one before appreciates the car culture of the 50s as an american icon.. Americana. I don't know if that same respect resonates with the 20 somethings and below. For them it's all cars the movie and nothing else. The fact it's more than just the movie is what makes it strong to me (in part because of the good genes of the movie).

Maybe not the same cars, but the popularity of FAST AND FURIOUS might have ignited a few years of love for cars with neon, turbos, flames..and illegal modifications.