Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[lazyboy97o]

While I totally AGREE that Disney has no morals so it has no moral indignation to oppose gambling on any front, you are dancing all over the place to make excuses for why this is nothing abnormal and simply business as usual for Disney. ...which is fine, except it is not.

I see it far more as business as usual for Marvel than Disney. That is why I asked about the MAX imprint.

 

[WDW1974]

Would they just change the theme of the current water rides, or would everything be removed?

Almost everything would be removed ...almost.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Yeah, haven't heard about the water ride yet either. As for Mt. Crumpit, there's still room for it in Seuss after Lorax. The old backstage dock area for Island Skipper Tours would provide a nice expansion area for Seuss Landing. Not saying it will happen or is possible, just saying there is actually room for another large-ish attraction is they want.

I took a look at the satellite images, and yea, I can see where you are talking about... I wouldn't put it by them adding Grinch later on... Isn't a new Grinch animated movie in the works?

 

[lebeau]

I see it far more as business as usual for Marvel than Disney. That is why I asked about the MAX imprint.

You don't even need to go to the Max imprint really. Pick up any mainstream comic book today and it is likely to be inappropriate for children. Certainly not appropriate for the Phineas and Ferb crowd. They are filled with rape and maimings.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Lorax would be an excellent fit for Seuss landing, And the book tells a story about conservation and misuse of resources WITHOUT being preachy (unlike say Avatar...)

Disney adding an IP about conservation... Universal appears to be adding an IP about conservation... We all know which one will open first...

 

[WDW1974]

Just like women... you may admire it for it's beauty, but if it's an airhead, you won't keep coming back.

Disney has been so focused on ornate details lately, they've forgotten the essence of the actual attractions. It's all too common lately... throw as much detail as you can at it.. and people still walk away disappointed.

Except when they do both (see: DCA 2.0 and new lands at HKDL).

 

[Captain Chaos]

This discussion would be greatly improved with some @whylightbulb involvement.
Just sayin'...

Well let's hope he can come in and provide any information which he can...

 

[misterID]

Separate does not mean ISOLATED.
Of course there is cross-overs, promotion, etc. The existence of that doesn't mean they aren't separate. Marvel has done collaborations and cross-overs with it's #1 competitor DC Comics as well. The fact they cross-promote and collaborate doesn't mean they are any less separate from each other. The Disney and Marvel brands are setup to co-exist and target markets as needed... just like Disney Channel vs ABC, etc. Leveraging your independent brands to boost each other is natural... that doesn't necessarily merge the brands.

ABC and ESPN make it known they're owned by Disney, though, it's advertised, no big secret, they embrace it. Have you seen all the Disney stuff they plaster on Mike And Mike? ESPN used to broadcast there all the time. And they show MARVEL cartoons on the Disney Channel all the time. Everyone knows it's interconnected and a part of Disney now. If they were seperate Disney wouldn't wrap their Monorails in big ole Marvel characters advertising movies, or planting their Walt Disney Studios logo on Iron Man 3. I don't think anyone seperates any Disney entity so much to the point they aren't aware that it is a Disney product. Disney plants their flag on all of them. They know the umbrella they're all under.

 

[WDW1974]

Not sure when they actually started work on the mine train itself, but New Fantasyland broke ground in early 2010 which means it would be about 4 years of construction. (Again if they started the mine train at the same time. Someone out there knows better than me.)

For comparison's sake it took Disney 3 years (official groundbreaking to open) to build all of Carsland which was a much larger rockwork project. So Disney can work faster when they want to. They chose to spread this one out.

I am almost out of play time ...but I have pointed out MANY times here that TINY WDP built EPCOT Center using early 80s tech in three years, while this relatively minor FAntasyland project will take 4 1/2 years from announcement to completion.

 

[misterID]

Just like women... you may admire it for it's beauty, but if it's an airhead, you won't keep coming back.

I don't know about d'at...

 

[WDW1974]

I don't think any of us have a problem with the distribution method of your information gathering organization.

Whether it is audio, video, dead tree or written word.... it all comes down to quality, accuracy and honesty. Thats what a disproportionate amount of all the bloggers don't get. They don't get public trust, they don't understand sourcing and accuracy.

They only care about being first because being right certainly hasnt been part of their M.O.

The one thing that they definitely care about is free stuff and gloating on twitter that they got into a Disney Media Event.

Agree entirely.

But that is when you have people who were never trained to be journalists pretending they are all experts on Disney (or themed entertainment and hospitality in general).

These folks are not. And while other fans may be impressed that they got to ask a dumb question of an exec, Celeb or Imagineer, I am not.

 

[djlaosc]

Almost everything would be removed ...almost.

That's a shame - they're two great rides, and it would be great if they could remain with a changed theme...

However, I'm sure people felt the same with Jaws, and BTTF, and Kongfrontation, and Universal have shown that they aren't afraid of removing "major" attractions...

 

[lazyboy97o]

You don't even need to go to the Max imprint really. Pick up any mainstream comic book today and it is likely to be inappropriate for children. Certainly not appropriate for the Phineas and Ferb crowd. They are filled with rape and maimings.

That is exactly why I tried to bring up MAX. It shows just how far Marvel goes from being acceptable for children with characters they also sell to children. I'm thinking, like with gaming, it hasn't been talked about because it wasn't known about.

 

[lebeau]

That is exactly why I tried to bring up MAX. It shows just how far Marvel goes from being acceptable for children with characters they also sell to children. I'm thinking, like with gaming, it hasn't been talked about because it wasn't known about.

I think you're right. Most adults don't even know where to buy comic books much less what is in them. They still think comic books are the stuff of *bif*bam*pow*! When in reality, you can't pick up an issue of Superman without running the risk of someone losing a limb in a bloody two-paged spread.

Then again, WB's Superman reboot ended with *spoilers* the deaths of countless people as Superman barely blinks, Superman killing an enemy he could have easily flown out of harm's way, and the Superman making out with Lois Lane in the rubble while untold hundreds or even thousands lay buried and in desperate need of help. So maybe people do know and just don't care.

 

[flynnibus]

Except when they do both (see: DCA 2.0 and new lands at HKDL).

Yes, there are examples where they still can do it. But what is concerning to me is what the company emphasizes and evangelizes in this area. Look at how in their social media outreach and in the fan community as a whole how much emphasis and lead is given to 'detail'. The genesis seems to be 'if spending 10 million on these ornate details works... spending 50 million on them must make it 5x better!'. It's no longer 'See how great and enjoyable this show is?' its 'See how great and researched these pieces of wood are?'. This type of rhetoric is repeated so much people come to believe it and the old ways are lost.

Theming was used to set the stage and support the show. Now the theming overshadows the show itself. That kind of emphasis is how we end up with Disney Airheads. Hot bodies, but shallow experiences. The Airheads are extremely dangerous because they cost so much money, and then the payoff isn't there. Then the company reacts and says 'this theming stuff was such a waste... we should cut back next time' and instead of looking objectively at what the true problem was... they just hack and slash the number side.

The company has lost touch with whats most important about an attraction and whose job it is to support who.

The fan base got so interested in 'how' things were done that people stopped looking at the end result. They focus on minute and miss the bigger picture. In trying to feed the hunger for 'how' things were done, the company has mislead itself into thinking the 'how' (the detail) was what you were delivering.. instead of the actual show experience.

 

[flynnibus]

So you are saying all of the 5-12 year olds that will be knocking door to door hoping someone sane behind them will give them candy in just under two month's time wearing Avengers costumes and Spidy get ups are separate?

No, and that's about 180 degrees of what I said when I said 'Separate does not mean ISOLATED'

 

[flynnibus]

Everyone knows it's interconnected and a part of Disney now

Does no one here understand the difference between the word BRAND and COMPANY?

 

[ScoutN]

No, and that's about 180 degrees of what I said when I said 'Separate does not mean ISOLATED'

Touting Marvel as Disney.

Marketing Marvel to kids.

Yes, it is exactly what you said.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Touting Marvel as Disney.

Marketing Marvel to kids.

Yes, it is exactly what you said.

I don't see much in the way of showing a greater relationship than those with the likes of Universal, Sony or Fox (who also ran the 90s cartoon show). This is not a new issue regarding Marvel and changing it would kill a lot of the Company, both creatively and financially.

 

[flynnibus]

Touting Marvel as Disney.

Marketing Marvel to kids.

Yes, it is exactly what you said.

No - it's not.

I'll say it again but in the inverse so maybe it will stick for you. Just because things are not ISOLATED - does not make they are the same. Separation does not require ISOLATION.