Problem day for MK.

[KevinYee]

Interesting.

I'd heard about power issues recently in another context and elsewhere in the MK. I wonder what's behind this pattern?

If WDW doesn't generate all of its own power, can it?

 

[baymenxpac]

Interesting.

I'd heard about power issues recently in another context and elsewhere in the MK. I wonder what's behind this pattern?

If WDW doesn't generate all of its own power, can it?

so kevin, lee, martin: i have a question. a sincere question. i'm curious for all your takes:

obviously, quality standards have dropped. we can probably all agree on that. yes, there are alarmists and apologists will to make their cases on both sides to what degree it has changed. but the reality all of us on these boards represent a small subsect of WDW guests. the large chunk of WDW guests are people who go to "see the magic," and don't know that it's different than how it used to be, or how it should be.

SO, that leads me to my question: how does change happen? do we just depend on the company to wake up and have a grinch heart-grows-three-sizes moment and do it out of complete altruism? or does it change by more awareness? in my opinion, the latter scenario implies a losing losing proposition for everyone, since more awareness would most likely mean an even bigger drop off in guest experience that ultimately would result in a loss in revenue.

 

[Crazy Harry]

BREAKING NEWS!!!


Man sneezes down Main Street USA and rumors persist a small projectile escaped his nose and could be lodged in the brick road. We are currently sending a news team over to photograph where the projectile may have landed, possible a CSI team to trace the whole crime. If the projectile can be found, we will report such declining by degrees as this would not have happed back in the day.

Meg Crofton has not made any comment surrounding this investigation.



Jimmy Thick-Any video of this would be front page news people!!!

What do you do when you want to insult someone's opinion based on objective observations but have nothing intelligent to offer? This ^

 

[unkadug]

First, I'm not sure that everyone agrees that quality has declined. However, based on the 2009 layoffs (I'd really like to find out what % of the staff was let go) of the maintenance staff, I don't see how operability couldn't decline. Put simply, WDW is operating approximately the same number of mechanical devices that it did in 2008 yet there appears to be fewer people available to service these mechanisms. In the mean time, these mechanisms are aging. Older equipment tends to require more maintenance that newer equipment. Based on these 2 assumptions, some decline in operability should be expected.

Second, to address your question, Disney is constantly changing based on guest survey results. Disney continuously polls the general public for feedback. They ask the collective "us" for our opinions. Disney responds to these results. This is why free WiFi and refrigerators at Value Resorts are being added, why Disney is exploring Next Gen FP, and why Disney is expanding Fantasyland. Disney is responding to what the public as a whole sees as the most important needs to address. Until we the public list "attraction malfunctions" as our major concern in these opinion polls, I don’t think that Disney will make any proactive moves to significantly change their current maintenance budget. In this sense, the apologists are right. If things are so bad then way aren't more people complaining about them?

Ignorance is bliss.

 

[KevinYee]

SO, that leads me to my question: how does change happen? do we just depend on the company to wake up and have a grinch heart-grows-three-sizes moment and do it out of complete altruism? or does it change by more awareness? in my opinion, the latter scenario implies a losing losing proposition for everyone, since more awareness would most likely mean an even bigger drop off in guest experience that ultimately would result in a loss in revenue.

I think my answer is: all of the above.

1. A change in leadership was needed at Disneyland to turn the boat all the way around.
2. Bad show (and especially guest deaths, or even just lawsuits) would bring about change
3. Front-line managers do read message boards and critical websites. Some of them thank me for pointing out problems because it sometimes shames those with control to money to actually do something, and sometimes it's a simpler thing the frontline manager can change himself - he just didn't know about it. (of course the irony is that the online critic looks like a crank then. We complain, they fix it, a "new" reader shows up and thinks the problem never existed)

 

[KevinYee]

Second, to address your question, Disney is constantly changing based on guest survey results. Disney continuously polls the general public for feedback.

The surveys we've taken for them are not really about honest feedback. At least not open-ended. The questions are not only guided and narrowed on just what they want to talk about, they are often slanted with the way they are written. It looks pretty clear to me that the surveys are used internally to justify something they want to do, not to gather actual guest feedback. Unless this has changed recently?

 

[fosse76]

My opinion is that other Coaster-oriented amusement parks have WAY more ride shutdowns than any of the the Disney parks. Now some of that is due to low level safety alarms that are computer generated.

Our our last 11 day vacation in Oct 2011 (opening to close every day!), POTC was shut down one evening for 30 minutes, but we never came across any other ride shutdowns in any of the parks.

Our last trips to Cedar Point, Kings Island, Valleyfair, Nickelodeon Universe, Six Flags Great America --- I could write novels for each park on various shutdowns throughout each day, or unexpected all day closures once we got there.

Hmmm...I worked at Six Flags Great America. Rides never went down as frequently as they do at Disney (at least not when I worked there). A ride would go down MAYBE once or twice per week (at least for technical reasons, and much to my dismay since I loved doing the downtime spiel...which I still remember to this day). At Disney it seems like it is once or twice per day! I was at Disneyland for a week a few months ago and many attractions seemed like they were down more frequently than up. One day I literally was going from closed attraction to closed attraction.

Whether Disney's downtimes are caused by guests misbehaving or technical glitches is irrelevant. It's their job to minimize the downtimes. I think part of the problem with dowtimes is that Disney's ride systems are complicated to re-start (probably moreso than necessary). But to a guest visiting and seing ride after ride closure, they don't care if it's because of a guest doing something wrong or a technical glitch...all they see is a frequently closed ride. And Disney is supposed to better at that, right?

 

[COProgressFan]

If things are so bad then way aren't more people complaining about them?

Most guests aren't going to waste their precious vacation time to go to City Hall to complain that the parks seemed dirty, or the cast unhelpful, the prices too high, or the attractions old and tired. They just won't come back or come back less often. Or perhaps, they can't even put their finger on what it is that made their trip less "magical" than they expected. The just leave with a feeling of "meh" and don't have much a desire to go back. Or they just decide the place is ok, but their kids really like it, so they'll return some time in the future if they have to.

Also, old Disney leadership used to recognize that for every one person who complained about something, there were 10 others who noticed it but didn't bother to complain. Food for thought. Also, I'm not going to complain about so many light bulbs being out on the MS train station, because if MK maintenance can't figure that out on their own (and it looked terrible last month) they have bigger issues to contend with. It's not my job (or any guest's) to tell them how to run a successful theme park using the ideals and principles that Disney once created and often chooses not to follow anymore.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Hmmm...I worked at Six Flags Great America. Rides never went down as frequently as they do at Disney (at least not when I worked there). A ride would go down MAYBE once or twice per week (at least for technical reasons, and much to my dismay since I loved doing the downtime spiel...which I still remember to this day). At Disney it seems like it is once or twice per day! I was at Disneyland for a week a few months ago and many attractions seemed like they were down more frequently than up. One day I literally was going from closed attraction to closed attraction.

Whether Disney's downtimes are caused by guests misbehaving or technical glitches is irrelevant. It's their job to minimize the downtimes. I think part of the problem with dowtimes is that Disney's ride systems are complicated to re-start (probably moreso than necessary). But to a guest visiting and seing ride after ride closure, they don't care if it's because of a guest doing something wrong or a technical glitch...all they see is a frequently closed ride. And Disney is supposed to better at that, right?

Disney attractions are also more complex that most Six Flags attractions. The technical glitches can be show related as well as ride system related.

Having said that, routine maintenance can help improve downtime.

 

[Brava Centauri]

Exactly! Most on this website are WDW experts who know how each attraction operates. We go to WDW time and time again because we love WDW and the attention to detail. That's why it pains us when WDW gets it "wrong", when something is not working, is worn, or needs to be cleaned. We've seen WDW at its best. We want to see it like this every time and also want everyone else to see it the same way.

However, unlike DL (which has a lot of repeat business), most WDW guests visit only a few times in their lifetime. For them, every visit is "magical", even when PotC (for example) has gone 101. These people don't know what WDW is like when it's at its best. Hence, ignorance is bliss.

IMHO, Disney quality has slipped since the time when "corporate Disney's" main focus was animation and theme parks. Since those "golden" days, "corporate Disney" (and WDW) has grown tremendously. It's difficult to maintain extremely high standards throughout an entire organization as it expands. WDW is still "best in class" but its lead over its competition has narrowed and the "quality" of WDW in 2012 is probably not the same as the quality of WDW in (say) 1985.

This post is perfect. And completely accurate.

 

[zulemara]

Whether Disney's downtimes are caused by guests misbehaving or technical glitches is irrelevant. It's their job to minimize the downtimes.

no no no no no. I completely disagree. Disney does everything it can to minimize guest behavioral impact on operations. Do you know how many times I tell people not to run on the dock, jump/duck ropes/gates, and take their kids off their shoulders before getting on a ferryboat? CONSTANTLY, but ya know what? All it takes is one person to get by me or my 2 co-workers to end up with an injured child(that's called face-ferryboat) or adult and a stop in the operation. The only reason it doesn't happen often is because we're always watching, scanning the crowd.

Now, take that same situation of people and apply it to a physically unmonitored attraction and it's a recipe for disaster. It DOES make a difference and it IS relevant if downtimes are caused by tourists without a brain or mechanical/maintenance issues.

 

[fosse76]

no no no no no. I completely disagree. Disney does everything it can to minimize guest behavioral impact on operations. Do you know how many times I tell people not to run on the dock, jump/duck ropes/gates, and take their kids off their shoulders before getting on a ferryboat? CONSTANTLY, but ya know what? All it takes is one person to get by me or my 2 co-workers to end up with an injured child(that's called face-ferryboat) or adult and a stop in the operation. The only reason it doesn't happen often is because we're always watching, scanning the crowd.

Now, take that same situation of people and apply it to a physically unmonitored attraction and it's a recipe for disaster. It DOES make a difference and it IS relevant if downtimes are caused by tourists without a brain or mechanical/maintenance issues.

No, it's not relevant. When I'm at Disney, if I notice that Splash Mountain is constantly down, the actual reason is not my problem. It's Disney's problem. They need to have procedures in place that minimize the downtime. If guest behavior is the most frequent cause of the downtime, it is Disney's responsibility to take steps to prevent that behavior or at the very least prevent that behavior from causing the downtimes. If it's maintenance related, they need to take steps, as best they can, to make sure they are maintaining the ride to minimize those breakdowns.

I think part of the problem isn't so much the frequency of the downtimes, but the sometimes inordinate amount of time it takes for a ride to be restarted after the downtime issue is resolved. If a substantial amount of the downtime is simply the re-starting, then that's an issue.

 

[PeoplemoverTTA]

The surveys we've taken for them are not really about honest feedback. At least not open-ended. The questions are not only guided and narrowed on just what they want to talk about, they are often slanted with the way they are written. It looks pretty clear to me that the surveys are used internally to justify something they want to do, not to gather actual guest feedback. Unless this has changed recently?

I worked in market research for four years, conducting in-person and phone surveys, focus groups - the works (I later did quality assurance as well). I've also had the fortunate experience of participating in about a dozen in-person or email surveys from WDW since that time.

From a professional perspective, I can say that Kevin's statement is dead-on. At least in the dozen or so surveys I've completed. On top of the ridiculously biased questions (which violate the very nature of market research - wanting to actually know what people think!), many of the people conducting the surveys have not been trained on proper methodology (example: when I answer an open-ended question--no choices--the person conducting the survey should not say, "So you mean [blank]?" No, I mean what I said, and that's what you should be recording. Not what you wanted me to say!

Market research in WDW is honestly a joke.

 

[kucarachi]

i say open the rides no matter whats wrong with them...its not like public safety is an issue. Its not like people sue over stubbed toes let alone a ride that isn't functioning at 100%. I agree though...on a slow moving ride such as POTC that just drives boats slowly...what could be so problematic? I am sure they aren't shutting it down because 1 or 2 animatronics aren't working right.

As far as splash mountain...cmon that is a very complex ride...carrying big butts up steep inclines, through water, timed perfectly as to not hit other boats. It's a big job and amazing how it works...so give it a break if they don't want you to get a giant log splinter in your zipadee doo da.

Thunder mountain isnt even supposed to open for a few more weeks is it? so why even worry about it. These rides take a beating folks...unlike any other machines in the world do. You don't see a small world, mickey's philharmagic, or peter pan down that much because...well they don't do that much. Just be glad they aren't letting you ride these rides and putting your little ones at risk because im sure they don't sit back there and plot to ruin your trip. Its frustrating when you are waiting a year for something and it doesnt go your way...but god has a reason for everything...and sometimes he just doesn't like you.

 

[The Hammer]

If people want to live in the 80's, go watch tapes of the A-Team. Some people are seriously bordering on psychotic. I'm sure if some of our self-appointed hyper-critics traveled back in time, their heads would explode when they realize that Disney never actually lived up to their imaginary standards. But yes, drink that kool-aid kids, if you want to imagine that there was a time when Disney rides didn't go down randomly due to operational problems you can believe that. There was also world peace, the roads were paved with gold, and everyone got free strawberry ice cream.

 

[beachlover4444]

The reasons these rides break down is because alot of them are 30 years old. Alot of the parts cannot be purchased anymore. They have to actually makes parts to fix the rides. Or completely close it, and rebuild it. These rides take a beating10-15 hours a day now with the extra magic hours. I'm sure maintenance is doing the best they can but clearly the band aid patch work fixing issues is showing it's signs and these rides need completely overhauled. Jungle Cruise is on a list of attractions to be refurb. You have to know that a park this old is going to have issues.:wave:

 

[Crazy Harry]

If people want to live in the 80's, go watch tapes of the A-Team. Some people are seriously bordering on psychotic. I'm sure if some of our self-appointed hyper-critics traveled back in time, their heads would explode when they realize that Disney never actually lived up to their imaginary standards. But yes, drink that kool-aid kids, if you want to imagine that there was a time when Disney rides didn't go down randomly due to operational problems you can believe that. There was also world peace, the roads were paved with gold, and everyone got free strawberry ice cream.

And I suppose you don't complain about anything? Perhaps you don't make enough money, have to work too many hours, pay too much for gas, encounter awful drivers, wait too long for your cheeseburger? Why don't you tell us what you complain about so we can critisize and antagonize you? It would only be fair. :wave:

 

[steve2wdw]

My daughter and I took a survey on the way out of DHS last week....the way the questions were structured, it was almost impossible to give a real critique of anything. Every path seemed to lead to positive feedback, no matter how hard we tried to imply the oppposite. It was very frustrating, and we let the survey taker know that. I'd like to take a survey about the survey!

 

[Magenta Panther]

The reasons these rides break down is because alot of them are 30 years old. Alot of the parts cannot be purchased anymore. They have to actually makes parts to fix the rides. Or completely close it, and rebuild it. These rides take a beating10-15 hours a day now with the extra magic hours. I'm sure maintenance is doing the best they can but clearly the band aid patch work fixing issues is showing it's signs and these rides need completely overhauled. Jungle Cruise is on a list of attractions to be refurb. You have to know that a park this old is going to have issues.:wave:

You know, I suspected that bit about unavailable parts when I saw the "refurbished" Country Bear Jamboree last December. I was NOT impressed with the movement of the AAs; they seemed very stiff, with barely a hint of the graceful movements they once had. Is that the problem? That the AAs in that show were built with old technology and it's difficult to acquire/replicate the parts needed to really get them back up to snuff?

 

[marni1971]

You have to know that a park this old is going to have issues.:wave:

Of course it is. So is TDL.