Accused of Pizza Flyer Scam at Dolphin.

[captainkidd]

To put it in a simple, easy to understand format.

He was on private property uninvited with no intention of being a guest.
He was trespassing.
He should feel lucky you got off with the apology he got.

LOL - He wasn't trespassing. There are no signs that say "NO TRESPASSING."

Maybe Disney should start harassing guests who go to the Polynesian and watch Wishes from the beach but aren't staying there. Or start interrogating non Contemporary guests having dinner at California Grille since they're on the top floor.

 

[Jakester]

To put it in a simple, easy to understand format.

He was on private property uninvited with no intention of being a guest.
He was trespassing.
He should feel lucky you got off with the apology he got.

So then i should get in trouble for trespassing onto Contemporary,Poly,Wilderness, and boardwalk.

If they don't like it when non-hotel guests walk thru the guest room halls, then they should make it clear somewhere.

I wasn't doing anything to disturb anybody up there.

 

[devoy1701]

LOL - He wasn't trespassing. There are no signs that say "NO TRESPASSING."

Maybe Disney should start harassing guests who go to the Polynesian and watch Wishes from the beach but aren't staying there. Or start interrogating non Contemporary guests having dinner at California Grille since they're on the top floor.

He tends to take the opposite stance on these kinds of threads...I think just to stir up other posters.

I definitely agree with you and even stretch it to say that when I visit resorts i'm not staying at, I am always asking myself "maybe we'll stay here next time" so I might have the intent to be a guest. But with an encounter like that I would definitely decide NEVER to stay there.

Hotel Staff does have the right to ask you to leave...but not detain as Jake described. I too wouldn't have turned over my ID.

 

[Jakester]

The Swan and Dolphin are not Disney operated hotels.

They are on property, so thats why i emailed WDW, and not the people who actually operate it. (to lazy to wanna find out).

 

[dave&di]

I passed atleast several people working there, and staying there, and none of them asked me anything, they just either said hello, or nodded hey to me.

I was up there, because since the Dolphin is like the contemporary in terms of height, I was interested in trying to find any place with a viewing-type balcony (Similar, but not excatly like the Top of the World), Which, I did find some which looks out to the Magic Kingdom area, and Animal Kingdom area.

I understand and my point is not referring to you, but if there is a security guard watching a camera of a person roaming around who is obviously not a guest it should be investigated, a passing staff member would not be suspicious but security watching on a camera would be, BUT not in the manner you were treated.

 

[Jakester]

I understand and my point is not referring to you, but if there is a security guard watching a camera of a person roaming around who is obviously not a guest it should be investigated, a passing staff member would not be suspicious but security watching on a camera would be, BUT not in the manner you were treated.

I understand that.

If i had seen these people doing this when i was up there, They would have been approached by me.

 

[The Mom]

He tends to take the opposite stance on these kinds of threads...I think just to stir up other posters.

I definitely agree with you and even stretch it to say that when I visit resorts i'm not staying at, I am always asking myself "maybe we'll stay here next time" so I might have the intent to be a guest. But with an encounter like that I would definitely decide NEVER to stay there.

Hotel Staff does have the right to ask you to leave...but not detain as Jake described. I too wouldn't have turned over my ID.

I still don't think someone needs a sign telling them that they don't have a right to be wandering hallways that only contain guest rooms. Not corridors leading to semipublic areas, such as restaurants, shops, etc, and not the outside grounds of a hotel, but only rooms where guests are sleeping, showering, have left their belongings, etc.

And, as a frequent hotel guest, I'm concerned that so many see nothing wrong with wandering in those hallways.

Under most circumstances security would not have had a right to detain him - except in this case he was wandering the same time others were committing illegal trespass, so they had probable cause. That's what makes the difference - he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

They should have just detained him for the police, and let him tell them his story. And maybe they wouldn't have believed him? Instead, he was let off with an apology.

Perhaps he should thank his lucky stars that the "crime" taking place while he was wandering was only trespass, and not something more serious that could have landed him in jail as a suspect.

 

[ScoutN]

A.It wasn't Disney.
B.You don't go holding someone against their will without proof.

It was not against your will. You could have left. The authorities would have just been notified. If they had someone on video who appeared similar to you then it sounds like they had their proof.

 

[jakeman]

The Swan and Dolphin are owned by Tishman Hotel Holdings which has the land under a lease from Disney. So really you aren't on Disney property when at those hotels. Currently it is under the control of Tishman. This incident has nothing to do with Disney. Any communications should go to Tishman.

The Starwood chain operates the hotels. Specifically the Swan is operated by the Sheraton branch and the Dolphin is operated by the Westin branch.

I still don't think someone needs a sign telling them that they don't have a right to be wandering hallways that only contain guest rooms. Not corridors leading to semipublic areas, such as restaurants, shops, etc, and not the outside grounds of a hotel, but only rooms where guests are sleeping, showering, have left their belongings, etc.

And, as a frequent hotel guest, I'm concerned that so many see nothing wrong with wandering in those hallways.

Under most circumstances security would not have had a right to detain him - except in this case he was wandering the same time others were committing illegal trespass, so they had probable cause. That's what makes the difference - he was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

They should have just detained him for the police, and let him tell them his story. And maybe they wouldn't have believed him? Instead, he was let off with an apology.

Perhaps he should thank his lucky stars that the "crime" taking place while he was wandering was only trespass, and not something more serious that could have landed him in jail as a suspect.

Agreed!

It was not against your will. You could have left. The authorities would have just been notified. If they had someone on video who appeared similar to you then it sounds like they had their proof.

It sounds like he voluntarily stayed. While they can request strongly that you remain for questioning, just short of physically handcuffing you to a chair isn't actually detaining you.

 

[Phonedave]

I saw a number of comments here.

Some said "Credit card scam, wow, they should do more to stop it"

and also

"they had no right to detain him, he should be able to waner around"

You can't have your cake and eat it too. Make up your minds. The pizza deliver scam is a known issue in the area hotels. They see a person that is wandering - not just walking but clearly searching for something (in this case a view, but it could have just as easily been something to steal). It is suspicious behavior.

As was said, he should have been monitored while the police were called, and then a LEO could have detained him for questioning. Hotel security should not have detained him without police unless he was in the process of leaving the building.

If I was in this situation, I would not have allowed my ID to be photographed, but I would not have complained about being detained by security either. But since I was not involved in anything illegal, I would have explained the situation and moved on.

Security was just trying to do their job. Maybe a little too excitedly, but still, just trying to keep guests safe.


-dave

 

[ScoutN]

It sounds like he voluntarily stayed. While they can request strongly that you remain for questioning, just short of physically handcuffing you to a chair isn't actually detaining you.

Sounds like he was too afraid to leave. Though if he had he would have most definitely been arrested.

 

[Oddysey]

This "Pizza Scam" - what is it about it that makes it a scam, besides that the hotels don't want people distributing literature? I mean, they are actual pizza shops, right?

I was first exposed to this after my first (and last...) stay at the Hilton at DTD (what a dump...after the wonderful Grand Cypress the previous few days it was quite the cluster shake down). They have notices in the room saying to ignore the flyers, and sure enough even though I only stayed one night I got one.

What bothered me about it was that it demonstrated the crappy security there. People are going up and down the halls, stopping at each and every door and sliding one under. And it happens so often, they have to have printed notices in the rooms to ignore them.

In this case, it sounds like security was simply incompetent - but this is a definite security issue nonetheless in the broader sense, that a hotel regularly has trespassers. To be honest, the folks at the Hilton probably just didn't want you to get a deal on pizza so you can instead buy a $15 sandwich and a $6 bottle of water in the hotel store...

Perhaps they are so afraid of being sued because of the possibility of making a mistake when identifying and detaining the alleged perpetrators. The possibility of a frivolous lawsuit would certainly make me hesitent about approaching anyone. Even if I were near certain of their involvement in unwanted activity.

That's a really ignorant statement. What "type," exactly, would do this? Criminals come in all shapes, sizes, and "types."

He is below the age of 18. Give him a break.

Glad to see Disney is being on top of the situation! They are protecting their resort guests.

Take out the word Disney (since they dont own the hotel), and I 100% agree with this statement.

There is no need for a lawsuit because of a 30 min false detainment. All these types of lawsuits due is further diminish the reliability of security in the establishment they are trying to secure.

 

[C&D]

There was a misunderstanding but Security did have probable cause, perhaps they might have gone a little too far, but I don't see anything illegal on the hotel's part.

 

[mkt]

Has anyone ever been alone, wandering around one of the WDW Hotels, and then been approached by security claiming they have proof that you have been handing out pizza flyers ??

Today after i visted AK, DHS, Epcot, i wanted to explore the boardwalk and dolphin, so i parked at boardwalk , and proceded to walk to the dolphin, i walk in and just admire the Fanciness of it. Since the dolphin was one of the taller hotels, i wanted to try and get up as high as i could, and still get a view outside without going into a guest room (which i accomplished), then i started leaving around 7pm, and as i was walking out of the lobby, down to floor 1, i got approached by a security person and person who seemed to probably own the hotel. They started asking me if i was handing out flyers, i said no. He took pictures of my driver license, then went to the lobby to "talk to my people", who i was not apart of. So i started trying to start a convo with the security person, and he kept giving me that "i know you did it a____________ look", and just kept being a (insert word) to me, then they took me to the people who were caught handing them out, they said "Thats not him", so they asked me a couple questions i cant remember, but i said "I visted Animal Kingdom, Hollywood Studios, and Epcot, showed them my AP pass, and said you can run it thru any system you want to prove i was at those parks. In the end, They finally realized i had no part in it what so ever, and was released..

They kept saying they had video evidence i was with them, I don't think they looked at it closely cuz they asked for a red bag "that i obvisouly didnt have", and said i was with people, when i was clearly alone the entire time.

They security people said "We don't like vistors going to guest areas", and i said " I didn't know, they don't have it posted anywhere", so hopefully, they'll post that information somewhere, so someone doesn't have to go thru what i did..

1- Contact hotel management to complain about this. You were detained and accused of something you didn't do.

2- The CM's lied. They stated they have video evidence of you doing this. The lying to a guest alone should warrant their termination.

3- You should NOT have given them your ID. They had no right to ask you for it, and you surrendered it. You have no idea what they're going to do with that information, and now they have it.

4- If it were me, I'd have walked out the second they asked for ID.

 

[ScoutN]

Take out the word Disney (since they dont own the hotel), and I 100% agree with this statement.

Yea I thought about that after the fact. Too busy doing a paper to go back and correct it.

 

[Todd L]

I gotta say. Im not comfortable with People....ANY.. people who are not resort guest being able to stroll The Upper floors of a resort that they are not a guest in.

This Guy seems like a harmless Kid who made an error in Judgement But Im glad he was approached By security and questioned. Yeah they seemed to have taken it too far and If it were me Id have to consider that I was possibly tresspassing and take that Into consideration before I escalated the incindent and got Law enforcement involved. Eat a little crow or possibly spend the night in the county jail and be charged with a crime??

Everyone wants to beat up the security personel and Hotel But...can you imagine dealing with Pizza scams where your guest are getting Credit card numbers robbed by some local dirtbags ?? the legal implications are tremendous.

Put yourself in the Swans shoes.You gotta think youd want to be pro-active and make your guest feel like there safe to walk the halls without this kinda stuff going on.


You have the responsabilty to protect your guest in all manners.


In not a letigious person and Ive NEVER been involved with a lawsuit in any fashion But....If I got my credit card # ripped off while at the Swan and they knew this was an ongoing problem but failed to stop these guys from getting into the hotel....Im pretty sure Id be on the Phone to my laywer.

Jakester handled the situation well and it seems that most people with nothing to hide would have gone the same route he did.

Lesson learned. No harm no foul.

 

[Oddysey]

1- Contact hotel management to complain about this. You were detained and accused of something you didn't do.

2- The CM's lied. They stated they have video evidence of you doing this. The lying to a guest alone should warrant their termination.

3- You should NOT have given them your ID. They had no right to ask you for it, and you surrendered it. You have no idea what they're going to do with that information, and now they have it.

4- If it were me, I'd have walked out the second they asked for ID.

1. Agreed. This is a more reasonable suggestion than contacting a lawyer.

2. It is possible that the hotel employee made a mistake when viewing the video evidence. However, this is not grounds for termination. The hotel employee should be reprimanded for the comment, but not terminated. If the hotel employee has a history of making this mistake then at some point a termination may be warranted. In the end, we are all human and prone to mistakes.

3. I do think one should be suspicous when anyone ask for your ID, and I would have had a problem with them taking a picture of it. However, if the security guard were able to show proper credentials then I would be more likely to cooperate. It really is a situation that I would have to be involved in to know just how to handle it. The OP felt it was the best way not to incriminate himself, and it seemed to work.

4. You would have looked extremely guilty by immediately walking out, and may have made the situation much worse for yourself.

Yea I thought about that after the fact. Too busy doing a paper to go back and correct it.

No problem. I really just wanted to point out that I agreed with your statment. If I didn't correct it, there would be 4 other post correcting me about the hotel not being Disney owned. If it were not for the anticipation of being corrected, I would not have even mentioned it.

 

[devoy1701]

1. Agreed. This is a more reasonable suggestion than contacting a lawyer.

2. It is possible that the hotel employee made a mistake when viewing the video evidence. However, this is not grounds for termination. The hotel employee should be reprimanded for the comment, but not terminated. If the hotel employee has a history of making this mistake then at some point a termination may be warranted. In the end, we are all human and prone to mistakes.

3. I do think one should be suspicous when anyone ask for your ID, and I would have had a problem with them taking a picture of it. However, if the security guard were able to show proper credentials then I would be more likely to cooperate. It really is a situation that I would have to be involved in to know just how to handle it. The OP felt it was the best way not to incriminate himself, and it seemed to work.

4. And you would have looked extremely guilty at that point.



No problem. I really just wanted to point out that I agreed with your statment. If I didn't correct it, there would be 4 other post correcting me about the hotel not being Disney owned. If it were not for the anticipation of being corrected, I would not have even mentioned it.

Whether or not walking out makes you look guilty or not, I still would have done so. If you didn't do something that you're being accused of and you're not dealing with the police, I wouldn't hand over my ID. I would have explained what I was doing up there, left it at that, told them I was leaving, and walked out the doors. If the hotel really wanted to pursue it then they would give the police his description. And guilty or not, they're not going to see Jake on that property anymore anyway.

 

[Todd L]

Whether or not walking out makes you look guilty or not, I still would have done so. If you didn't do something that you're being accused of and you're not dealing with the police, I wouldn't hand over my ID. I would have explained what I was doing up there, left it at that, told them I was leaving, and walked out the doors. If the hotel really wanted to pursue it then they would give the police his description. And guilty or not, they're not going to see Jake on that property anymore anyway.

To what end?? Isnt it Just easier to deal with the situation at the moment ?? Would you prefer to have the Police knocking on your door looking for answers??

 

[devoy1701]

To what end?? Isnt it Just easier to deal with the situation at the moment ?? Would you prefer to have the Police knocking on your door looking for answers??

And how would they know where my door was had if I hadn't handed over my ID? :animwink:

I very much doubt the hotel staff would have pursued it to that end had he decided to walk out of the hotel after explaining what he was doing up there. Dealing with the situation at the moment shouldn't have had to go beyond "I was up there because I was looking for a balcony on the higher floors that would give me a view of the entire property. I wasn't aware that I would get in trouble for being up there. I'm Sorry."