Your opinions for a first-timer to California Adventure

[mickster]

I do have to disagree with your comments about California oceanside amusement parks. During the 20's, 30's, and 40's beach parks flourished up and down the California coast from San Francisco to San Diego. They were immensely popular. In their era, these parks had as much impact upon California culture as Disneyland has on present day culture.

As I've stated before, they existed, yes. But the claim that they had "as much impact upon California culture as Disneyland has on present day culture" is simply not true. Most people can name but a handful of these parks, and the ones that existed looked virtually nothing like Paradise Pier portrays them. For example, a key feature of these parks was the bath house, which is not represented in any way, shape or form in Paradise Pier. Granted, it would probably be pretty silly to put a bath house in a Disney park, but excluding one negates any claim that Paradise Pier "represents California's beach culture". They were as prominent a feature as the roller coaster, if not more so. The Sun Wheel is also an inaccurate representation of California oceanside amusement parks. This style of ride existed (and still does today) at Coney Island in New York. This ride is far more representative of Coney Island than it is of anything that ever existed in California.

Disneyland, by contrast, has existed in the public consciousness for over 50 years. It's insane to suggest that the mostly forgotten oceanside amusement parks have had anywhere near the impact on our culture that Disneyland has.

All that aside, let's assume for the sake of argument that these parks had left as indelible mark on our culture as DCA would want us to believe (and as you've claimed). Considering the fact that Disneyland (and all the other Disney parks...including DCA) owe their existence largely to Walt's disdain for these types of parks, isn't is somewhat disrespectful of Walt's memory, and the Disney name, to celebrate this type of park? DCA would have us believe that these parks were such a big part of California culture, that they just couldn't ignore them and omit them from the park. In my opinion, that's just ridiculous and insulting to the public's intelligence. And I think the public has responded and demonstrated our intelligence by generally not patronizing this sad excuse for a theme park.

 

[Nicole220]

Okay. I visited DL and DCA last November for the first time. I grew up in Orlando and visited the parks almost weekly. I worked for Disney for a while and know Disney World parks backwards and forewards.

Tip #1. DCA is its own park. Don't compare it to EPCOT. It is not. I love EPCOT.

As far as the rides and attractions:

Monsters Inc. was a great dark ride that is worth checking out.

The Animation Building was basically the same stuff seen around WDW but the sets were amazing.

Aladdin was not being performed the day I was there so I can't tell you, except research to make sure its open the day you go.

Tower of Terror is definetly not as great as MGM but if you have ridden the MGM version as many times as I have, it has some surprises since its not the same layout and the drop caught me off guard.

Bugs Life area is for kids so there really isn't much for adults except to walk through and see how creative it is.

Soarin' was fun to ride just to see the differences in the que areas.

Grizzly was a let down. I think Kali is a better ride. It's not the same track.

Brother Bear area is nice again mainly for kids.

Golden Zephyr is what it is.

Orange Stinger is also what it is.

The Sun Wheel is great stationary but made everyone in my group sick when swinging and kind of ruined the rest of our day.

Maliboomer does nothing for me.

Mulholland Madness was fun. It reminded me of driving on Mulholland the night before.

California Screamin' was disapointing. It could have been much better. It was slow and had very little excitement and the music wasn't loud enough.

Seasons of the Vine and Golden Dreams was nothing to write home about.

Skipped Tough to Be a Bug and Muppets.

Overall its a good park and exciting to me becasuse for the first time in a Disney park I didn't know where the closest restroom was. Again its fun but I wouldn't expect too much. Just go and have fun and try not to compare it to WDW. It's a seperate park.

Why in the world would you compare DCA to EPCOT?? They are on two totally different ends of the spectrum.

I don't get why people think Kali is better than Grizzly. When I went on Kali this past November, it did nothing for me. We basically floated through the whole thing and then went down the drop. Grizzly has two drops and has more excitement than Kali.

Since you have visited, the music on Screamin' has been "fixed"

 

[mickster]

Tip #1. DCA is its own park. Don't compare it to EPCOT. It is not. I love EPCOT.

:lol: :lol: I always laugh any time someone says, "Don't compare it". To me, that's the most obvious way in which people will "protect" DCA. Any time someone isn't secure in their belief in the quality of something, they ask you to not compare it to something else. As long as we don't compare DCA to any other theme park, we can say it's an okay park. I'm sure if someone were to challenge us to compare say, the Magic Kingdom to Six Flags, we'd say, "bring it on!" But where DCA is concerned, ummmm.....let's just play it safe and say it's "its own park" and "don't compare it". :lol: :lol:

Tower of Terror is definetly not as great as MGM but if you have ridden the MGM version as many times as I have, it has some surprises since its not the same layout and the drop caught me off guard.

:lol: :lol: "it has some surprises"....This is a polite way of saying it's a dramatically scaled back version of the one at MGM. It has one effect (and one only) that the MGM version does not have, and it's a highly overrated effect. If you've been on Test Track, and you've noticed the "thermal imaging" they do at the end of the ride, then you've basically seen the "effect" that this version has. :lol: :lol:

Soarin' was fun to ride just to see the differences in the que areas.

"differences in queue areas??" Now that's really a stretch considering neither attraction has any queue area themeing to speak of.

Golden Zephyr is what it is.

Orange Stinger is also what it is.

Yes, they are what they are....cheap, off the shelf carnival rides.

Mulholland Madness was fun. It reminded me of driving on Mulholland the night before.

Whaaaaat???? Are you seriously claiming that Mulholland Madness (another cheap, off the shelf carnival ride) made you feel like you were actually driving on a real road??

but I wouldn't expect too much. Just go and have fun and try not to compare it to WDW.

Isn't it sad (and doesn't it speak volumes) that DCA is the only park in Disney's armada where we always have to include the caveat, "Don't expect too much"?

 

[mickster]

I don't get why people think Kali is better than Grizzly. When I went on Kali this past November, it did nothing for me. We basically floated through the whole thing and then went down the drop. Grizzly has two drops and has more excitement than Kali.

Well maybe it's because most people don't rate the quality of something on such a simplistic feature as the "number of drops it has". I like to think most Disney fans (and audiences in general) are a little more sophisticated than that. As I've stated before, that's one of my biggest criticisms of Disney with regard to this park...I think they grossly underestimated the sophistication and intelligence of people, and they assumed that hordes of people would still buy an admission ticket simply because the park says, "Disney" on it. :hammer:

 

[Nicole220]

Well maybe it's because most people don't rate the quality of something on such a simplistic feature as the "number of drops it has". I like to think most Disney fans (and audiences in general) are a little more sophisticated than that. As I've stated before, that's one of my biggest criticisms of Disney with regard to this park...I think they grossly underestimated the sophistication and intelligence of people, and the assumed that hordes of people would still buy an admission ticket simply because the park says, "Disney" on it. :hammer:

I wasn't just rating it based on number of drops. On Grizzly you get wetter, go faster, and going inside dark caves makes it more "intense" (can't think of the right word, that's the best I could think of right now). What I remember about Kali is floating on water surrounded by burning wood. I will give it props though for the first lift with all the mist. It looks and feels like you are really going into the middle of the jungle.

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

"it has some surprises"....This is a polite way of saying it's a dramatically scaled back version of the one at MGM. It has one effect (and one only) that the MGM version does not have, and it's a highly overrated effect. If you've been on Test Track, and you've noticed the "thermal imaging" they do at the end of the ride, then you've basically seen the "effect" that this version has.

(Spoiler Alert)

I agree.

The one part of what makes MGM's ToT so great is clearly absent from the DCA version. (5th demension sequence)

The "mirror" effect DCA's ToT is nothing special and I think it's actually corny.

 

[Nicole220]

:lol: :lol: I always laugh any time someone says, "Don't compare it". To me, that's the most obvious way in which people will "protect" DCA. Any time someone isn't secure in their belief in the quality of something, they ask you to not compare it to something else. As long as we don't compare DCA to any other theme park, we can say it's an okay park. I'm sure if someone were to challenge us to compare say, the Magic Kingdom to Six Flags, we'd say, "bring it on!" But where DCA is concerned, ummmm.....let's just play it safe and say it's "its own park" and "don't compare it". :lol: :lol:



:lol: :lol: "it has some surprises"....This is a polite way of saying it's a dramatically scaled back version of the one at MGM. It has one effect (and one only) that the MGM version does not have, and it's a highly overrated effect. If you've been on Test Track, and you've noticed the "thermal imaging" they do at the end of the ride, then you've basically seen the "effect" that this version has. :lol: :lol:



"differences in queue areas??" Now that's really a stretch considering neither attraction has any queue area themeing to speak of.



Yes, they are what they are....cheap, off the shelf carnival rides.



Whaaaaat???? Are you seriously claiming that Mulholland Madness (another cheap, off the shelf carnival ride) made you feel like you were actually driving on a real road??



Isn't it sad (and doesn't it speak volumes) that DCA is the only park in Disney's armada where we always have to include the caveat, "Don't expect too much"?

I think a person's preference to the TOTs depends on them. I started w/ MGM's and loved it. When DCA's came, I loved it. When I went back to WDW in November, I liked DCA's better and found MGM's kind of boring. My mom and sister also thought this. Again, it's my own opinion and have found others to feel the same way. The 5th dimension does nothing for me now and agree that the mirror is nothing special. I don't think one towers over the other one.

Both Soarin's queues are very boring and are nothing special.

 

[DisneyYorkian74]

I think a person's preference to the TOTs depends on them. I started w/ MGM's and loved it. When DCA's came, I loved it. When I went back to WDW in November, I liked DCA's better and found MGM's kind of boring. My mom and sister also thought this. Again, it's my own opinion and have found others to feel the same way. The 5th dimension does nothing for me now and agree that the mirror is nothing special. I don't think one towers over the other one.

The "5th demension" is what make ToT different than all the other "Freefall" type of attractions.

I think DCA's ToT is just a basic "Freefall" you can find anywhere else with a Twilight Zone overlay; while MGM's is truly something unique and special.

I would honestly like to know how you find MGM's boring and DCA's not when the "5th demension" is the key in building up the anticipation for the drop.

 

[isitingood]

Re-read the part of my post where I acknowledge that oceanside amusement parks have existed in California. I'm not disputing that fact. My point (which I thought I stated clearly) is that oceanside amusement parks have never been a significant part of California history OR culture. DCA would have you believe otherwise. To visitors of DCA who aren't very familiar with California, Paradise Pier would likely give them the impression that oceanside amusement parks are a huge part of what California is about (especially since it's the biggest section of DCA). To those of us who know better, it's obvious that Paradise Pier was just an excuse to go cheap by having so many carnival rides instead of truly "themed" attractions.

I am well aware that oceanside parks have existed but Santa Monica and Santa Cruz attract tourists from all over the world. If Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk has no history then why is the park itself a California Historic Landmark?:wave:

 

[Nicole220]

The "5th demension" is what make ToT different than all the other "Freefall" type of attractions.

I think DCA's ToT is just a basic "Freefall" you can find anywhere else with a Twilight Zone overlay; while MGM's is truly something unique and special.

I would honestly like to know how you find MGM's boring and DCA's not when the "5th demension" is the key in building up the anticipation for the drop.

DCA's isn't just a "freefall" because you do infact move forward and backward in the begining and end. Basic freefalls move up and down and that's it.

When I was in kindergarden riding TOT for the first time, I remember the 5th demension being very dark and having a lot to it. This past November, I could see everything, and only remember a few things hanging from the celing. The 5th demension is cool and makes MGM's TOT unique, it just didn't "wow" me like I thought it was and remembered it doing.

Honestly, I can't explain why it was boring. I know at the end, my mom and I just looked at each other and said, "was that it?" I know it sounds weird to say that a freefall ride was boring because how can it? All you do is go up and down. I guess for the past few years I have heard about how much better MGM's is to DCA's, and I went into it w/ high expectations.

 

[mickster]

I am well aware that oceanside parks have existed but Santa Monica and Santa Cruz attract tourists from all over the world. If Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk has no history then why is the park itself a California Historic Landmark?:wave:

Well for starters, Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk's claim to fame is due to two of it's historic rides: The Giant Dipper roller coaster and the Loof Carousel. Both of these are national historic landmarks and neither is even remotely represented at DCA. Secondly, I never said that Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk had no history. What I said was that it had no significant impact on California history or culture. There are lots of places and things in California that "have a history". That doesn't mean they are significant to California. Tortillas, for example, certainly have a history. According to DCA, they are significant to California. But those of us who know better realize they are not. Same goes for oceanside amusement parks.

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

As I've stated before, they existed, yes. But the claim that they had "as much impact upon California culture as Disneyland has on present day culture" is simply not true. Most people can name but a handful of these parks, and the ones that existed looked virtually nothing like Paradise Pier portrays them. For example, a key feature of these parks was the bath house, which is not represented in any way, shape or form in Paradise Pier. Granted, it would probably be pretty silly to put a bath house in a Disney park, but excluding one negates any claim that Paradise Pier "represents California's beach culture". They were as prominent a feature as the roller coaster, if not more so. The Sun Wheel is also an inaccurate representation of California oceanside amusement parks. This style of ride existed (and still does today) at Coney Island in New York. This ride is far more representative of Coney Island than it is of anything that ever existed in California.

Disneyland, by contrast, has existed in the public consciousness for over 50 years. It's insane to suggest that the mostly forgotten oceanside amusement parks have had anywhere near the impact on our culture that Disneyland has.

All that aside, let's assume for the sake of argument that these parks had left as indelible mark on our culture as DCA would want us to believe (and as you've claimed). Considering the fact that Disneyland (and all the other Disney parks...including DCA) owe their existence largely to Walt's disdain for these types of parks, isn't is somewhat disrespectful of Walt's memory, and the Disney name, to celebrate this type of park? DCA would have us believe that these parks were such a big part of California culture, that they just couldn't ignore them and omit them from the park. In my opinion, that's just ridiculous and insulting to the public's intelligence. And I think the public has responded and demonstrated our intelligence by generally not patronizing this sad excuse for a theme park.

I'm sorry Mickster, but I don't think you quite understand the point I was trying to make. When I posted that the beach parks made an impact upon California pop culture I prefaced it with the words "In their era" (words which you seem to have omitted when you chose to paraphrase my remarks)
I used these words to suggest that in their heyday (not present times) The beach parks did leave a mark on the then California culture.

You are correct when you state that the beach parks had bath houses. They had many other diversions, such as ballrooms where the Big bands used to perform, besides amusement park rides. The beach parks were meant to be all day entertainment experiences where Californians who lived in that era could spent their weekends, vacations and leisure time. (Sound familiar?)

I hope that this helps to clear up any misunderstanding that you may have had with my previous post.

 

[isitingood]

Well for starters, Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk's claim to fame is due to two of it's historic rides: The Giant Dipper roller coaster and the Loof Carousel. Both of these are national historic landmarks and neither is even remotely represented at DCA. Secondly, I never said that Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk had no history. What I said was that it had no significant impact on California history or culture. There are lots of places and things in California that "have a history". That doesn't mean they are significant to California. Tortillas, for example, certainly have a history. According to DCA, they are significant to California. But those of us who know better realize they are not. Same goes for oceanside amusement parks.

I agree with you on the Tortilla Factory but the Santa Cruz Boardwalk has had inpact on history even Hollywood where you can see the Red and White tracks in many commercials such as Mitsubishi,Ford,Coors, Sony,Levi's and even Yahoo. Also look at the movies that have been filmed at Santa Cruz Sudden Inpact,The Lost Boys and Dangerous Minds just to name a few.

 

[mickster]

I'm sorry Mickster, but I don't think you quite understand the point I was trying to make. When I posted that the beach parks made an impact upon California pop culture I prefaced it with the words "In their era" (words which you seem to have omitted when you chose to paraphrase my remarks)
I used these words to suggest that in their heyday (not present times) The beach parks did leave a mark on the then California culture.

You are correct when you state that the beach parks had bath houses. They had many other diversions, such as ballrooms where the Big bands used to perform, besides amusement park rides. The beach parks were meant to be all day entertainment experiences where Californians who lived in that era could spent their weekends, vacations and leisure time. (Sound familiar?)

I hope that this helps to clear up any misunderstanding that you may have had with my previous post.

I actually understood your post just fine. My point, which I probably did not make clear enough, was that it still doesn't mean those types of parks have had a significant impact on California culture and history. I'm not disputing the fact that they had histories of their own, nor the fact that at one time there were a lot of them and that they were popular in that era. My point is regardless of how popular they may have been at one time, it was not a lasting impact on California culture and not a significant part of our history. There have been lots of things, throughout history, that may have been wildly popular in their eras. But if they've gone largely forgotten since then, and/or they weren't at least somewhat unique to California, then I personally believe they would have no place in a park that claims to celebrate California. In an earlier post, you compared these oceanside amusement parks to Disneyland, stating they were as significant in their time as Disneyland is in our's. I disagree. Disneyland differs in that it has stood the test of time. It's over 50 years old and is still just as big a part of popular culture as it's ever been. It's also something that people tend to identify with California. You rarely, if ever, hear of any of California's oceanside amusement parks as being something that people identify with California. I believe this is due to the aspects of them that I've been describing. When you think of an oceanside amusement park, I doubt many people automatically think of California. More likely, they're going to think of Coney Island, as that's really where they've made a bigger impact. But mention something like gold for example, and lot's of people will automatically think of California. Gold is far from unique to California, but it meets the other criteria of having a significant impact on our history and culture. Mention wine and a lot of people will automatically think of California. Again, not necessarily unique to California, but it's an identifiable attribute of our state and has definitely had an impact on our history and culture. Oceanside amusement parks are absolutely not unique to California in any way, and they're not something that is clearly identifiable in terms of defining who we are or what California is about.

As I've stated, Paradise Pier was, in my opinion, just an excuse to add a bunch of unoriginal carnival rides (something that is so glaringly against what Disney parks are supposed to represent), and a way for Disney to avoid having a large investment in this park. They fabricated a theme for this area by suggesting that it represents California's beach culture, which it doesn't. California's beach culture is primarily about surfing and sunbathing. Am I suggesting these are things they could have simulated at a theme park? Not likely. But to choose, instead, to fill the area with what amounts to essentially a carnival, is a much worse choice than just ignoring California's beach culture altogether. And to devote such a large portion of the park to it implies that this was a "big part" of what California is all about. That's just absurd, and it's an insult to one's intelligence.

 

[mickster]

I agree with you on the Tortilla Factory but the Santa Cruz Boardwalk has had inpact on history even Hollywood where you can see the Red and White tracks in many commercials such as Mitsubishi,Ford,Coors, Sony,Levi's and even Yahoo. Also look at the movies that have been filmed at Santa Cruz Sudden Inpact,The Lost Boys and Dangerous Minds just to name a few.

Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk itself has had little impact on history, and not much more on Hollywood. The movies you listed aren't exactly blockbusters or classics.

Here's a thought, why didn't they replicate the Hotel Del Coronado and call that the Grand Californian? That one hotel is certainly much more symbolic of California than any oceanside amusement parks, bugs, muppets, monsters, or even national park lodges. And guess what? A pretty classic movie was filmed there..."Some Like it Hot".

 

[Nicole220]

I think we need to rename this thread: Argue and Complian about DCA.

:brick: :hammer: :lookaroun

 

[mickster]

I think we need to rename this thread: Argue and Complian about DCA.

:brick: :hammer: :lookaroun

:lol: :lol: Of course, it wouldn't be the first thread deserving of that name!

btw, did you ever go look at Snow White's Grotto and figure out what's wrong with it?

 

[Rufus T Firefly]

Santa Cruz Beach Boardwalk itself has had little impact on history, and not much more on Hollywood. The movies you listed aren't exactly blockbusters or classics.

Here's a thought, why didn't they replicate the Hotel Del Coronado and call that the Grand Californian? That one hotel is certainly much more symbolic of California than any oceanside amusement parks, bugs, muppets, monsters, or even national park lodges. And guess what? A pretty classic movie was filmed there..."Some Like it Hot".

Too late.

Disney has already replicated the Hotel Del. They call it the Grand Floridian.

 

[Nicole220]

:lol: :lol: Of course, it wouldn't be the first thread deserving of that name!

btw, did you ever go look at Snow White's Grotto and figure out what's wrong with it?

LOL! Oh yeah, totally forgot to mention that!! :hammer:

I went but could not find anything wrong with it! It's probably something big that I completely overlooked. :hammer:

I give up! What's wrong with it?

 

[mickster]

LOL! Oh yeah, totally forgot to mention that!! :hammer:

I went but could not find anything wrong with it! It's probably something big that I completely overlooked. :hammer:

I give up! What's wrong with it?

The Snow White statue is the same height as the dwarves. They disguise this by placing her at the top of a waterfall, while the dwarves are at the bottome of it. The statues actually were an anonymous gift to Walt Disney. No one knows who actually sculpted them, only that they come from somewhere in Italy.