Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Casper Gutman]

So someone thinks something weird about side seats and this is extreme rhetoric ?

Buford you know she deserves some of the criticism for her comments.

Just because some people take it to far doesn’t mean the conversation should be shutdown.

Otherwise no one can critique Elon because some bad apples have gone to far and set cars on fire.

I hate how 12 people saying stupid things on X is always amplified to Zegler haters are all racists!!

It’s just nonsense.

Most people are just sick of every movie having to have some eye rolling message being jammed down our throat.

Every time someone says something like this, here comes the attack mob.

What do you mean by this?

What do you mean by that?

Hoping you say one word wrong so they can jump all over you and call you some type of -ist.

So here is what I mean by it.

I just want to go to a freaking Disney movie and not be reminded of all the political garbage we already have to deal with day to day.

Is that really a terrible thing to ask?

If so then bombs away on me, I guess I’m a terrible person.

When we use language it should mean things - how do we define “propaganda?” I’ll admit that it’s a hard term to pin down, since all films contain moral and ideological positions they try to pass on to the audience to one degree or another. Is the original Ghosbusters, which has a strong libertarian tone, propaganda? Is In the Heat of the Night? Boys Don’t Cry? Amistad? Based on where we draw the line, all can be classed as “propaganda.”

For this conversation to have merit, we also need to have a sense of history and the willingness and ability to compare the cultural product of this particular moment to the product of other eras. What about modern films makes it appropriate to label them “propaganda?” What characteristics do they have that earlier films don’t? Is the label identifying something within the film itself or is it the product of cultural, social, political, economic, etc changes effecting the viewers perception of the film? Does the fault lie with the film or with the “political garbage” shaping its reception?

 

[Chi84]

They made $5B last year, more than any other studio.

I think he believes Disney has an agenda that hurts them but they don’t care because they’re too committed.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think he believes Disney has an agenda that hurts them but they don’t care because they’re too committed.

If they do, it’s a very profitable agenda overall.

 

[Disney Irish]

I just want to go to a freaking Disney movie and not be reminded of all the political garbage we already have to deal with day to day.

Movies tell stories, stories are based on real life. And unfortunately real life bleeds into our consciousness when watching movies. I think maybe you see all that stuff because you're looking for it, or have trained yourself not to ignore it when you should do the opposite.

I go to a movie to escape, and so I ignore all the outside influences when I'm watching a movie. Maybe some can't do that and only can see "political" stuff. Maybe its why I can enjoy a movie that others have raked over the coals. Dunno, maybe I'm unique like that.

 

[Disstevefan1]

They made $5B last year, more than any other studio.

is that gross or net?

 

[Chi84]

Movies tell stories, stories are based on real life. And unfortunately real life bleeds into our consciousness when watching movies. I think maybe you see all that stuff because you're looking for it, or have trained yourself not to ignore it when you should do the opposite.

I go to a movie to escape, and so I ignore all the outside influences when I'm watching a movie. Maybe some can't do that and only can see "political" stuff. Maybe its why I can enjoy a movie that others have raked over the coals. Dunno, maybe I'm unique like that.

You’re not. There’s great value in having a positive attitude and tuning out the noise.

 

[LittleBuford]

is that gross or net?

Gross, as I think you already know anyway. Oh, and I underreported the total, which was actually $5.46 billion.

 

[Trauma]

When we use language it should mean things - how do we define “propaganda?” I’ll admit that it’s a hard term to pin down, since all films contain moral and ideological positions they try to pass on to the audience to one degree or another. Is the original Ghosbusters, which has a strong libertarian tone, propaganda? Is In the Heat of the Night? Boys Don’t Cry? Amistad? Based on where we draw the line, all can be classed as “propaganda.”

For this conversation to have merit, we also need to have a sense of history and the willingness and ability to compare the cultural product of this particular moment to the product of other eras. What about modern films makes it appropriate to label them “propaganda?” What characteristics do they have that earlier films don’t? Is the label identifying something within the film itself or is it the product of cultural, social, political, economic, etc changes effecting the viewers perception of the film? Does the fault lie with the film or with the “political garbage” shaping its reception?

I’ll tell you.

Many movies of the past had ideological positions or moral lessens.

I remember watching the films and thinking about what I just saw.

How did it make me feel ? What did this film just teach me about myself?

You see Casper this can be a deep and meaningful experience. I would argue it’s the absolute soul of cinema. It’s the “magic” if you will.

So why was it magic then and propaganda now ?

The simple answer you could give is that I don’t agree with the message. The problem with that is many movies in the past had messages that I didn’t agree with. However they made me look inside and at least consider another point of view.

You see I use to go into a movie and I didn’t know what to expect. I might have seen a trailer. Maybe a friend suggested I go see it.

Now when I walk into a movie, I have already had everyone tell me how I should be thinking. I have had to listen to the actors and actresses, go on and on about the lessons they want the film to convey.

Endless discussion on what is the way I should be thinking about this and that.

I don’t care about what they believe .

Let the art speak for itself.

Let it evoke the emotions in me, don’t try to influence the path of self discovery.

This is our film, we hope you find meaning in it.

That’s art.

This is our film, this is how it should make you feel, otherwise this means _____ about you.

That to me is propaganda.

 

[Chi84]

I’ll tell you.

Many movies of the past had ideological positions or moral lessens.

I remember watching the films and thinking about what I just saw.

How did it make me feel ? What did this film just teach me about myself?

You see Casper this can be a deep and meaningful experience. I would argue it’s the absolute soul of cinema. It’s the “magic” if you will.

So why was it magic then and propaganda now ?

The simple answer you could give is that I don’t agree with the message. The problem with that is many movies in the past had messages that I didn’t agree with. However they made me look inside and at least consider another point of view.

You see I use to go into a movie and I didn’t know what to expect. I might have seen a trailer. Maybe a friend suggested I go see it.

Now when I walk into a movie, I have already had everyone tell me how I should be thinking. I have had to listen to the actors and actresses, go on and on about the lessons they want the film to convey.

Endless discussion on what is the way I should be thinking about this and that.

I don’t care about what they believe .

Let the art speak for itself.

Let it evoke the emotions in me, don’t try to influence the path of self discovery.

This is our film, we hope you find meaning in it.

That’s art.

This is our film, this is how it should make you feel, otherwise this means _____ about you.

That to me is propaganda.

Actors telling people what lessons they want the film to convey seems pretty harmless. Certainly nothing that should trigger people to the extent we’re seeing.

As far as people telling you what you should be thinking, that’s pretty much how life goes. Just politely acknowledge their input and then think for yourself.

 

[LittleBuford]

Actors telling people what lessons they want the film to convey seems pretty harmless.

As well as entirely avoidable. No-one is forcing any of us to read or listen to their statements.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I’ll tell you.

Many movies of the past had ideological positions or moral lessens.

I remember watching the films and thinking about what I just saw.

How did it make me feel ? What did this film just teach me about myself?

You see Casper this can be a deep and meaningful experience. I would argue it’s the absolute soul of cinema. It’s the “magic” if you will.

So why was it magic then and propaganda now ?

The simple answer you could give is that I don’t agree with the message. The problem with that is many movies in the past had messages that I didn’t agree with. However they made me look inside and at least consider another point of view.

You see I use to go into a movie and I didn’t know what to expect. I might have seen a trailer. Maybe a friend suggested I go see it.

Now when I walk into a movie, I have already had everyone tell me how I should be thinking. I have had to listen to the actors and actresses, go on and on about the lessons they want the film to convey.

Endless discussion on what is the way I should be thinking about this and that.

I don’t care about what they believe .

Let the art speak for itself.

Let it evoke the emotions in me, don’t try to influence the path of self discovery.

This is our film, we hope you find meaning in it.

That’s art.

All of this is fair. It sounds like the problem is something outside the film, perhaps social media and an increasingly shrill culture war. Artists have always talked about their art - in magazines or on Johnny Carson or elsewhere. Now that conversation has taken center stage in our politics and outlets like Facebook and Twitter blast it nonstop.

 

[Casper Gutman]

As well as entirely avoidable. No-one is forcing any of us to read or listen to their statements.

I’d argue a lot of it is people telling people that actors are telling people what lessons they want the film to convey.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I’ll tell you.

Many movies of the past had ideological positions or moral lessens.

I remember watching the films and thinking about what I just saw.

How did it make me feel ? What did this film just teach me about myself?

You see Casper this can be a deep and meaningful experience. I would argue it’s the absolute soul of cinema. It’s the “magic” if you will.

So why was it magic then and propaganda now ?

The simple answer you could give is that I don’t agree with the message. The problem with that is many movies in the past had messages that I didn’t agree with. However they made me look inside and at least consider another point of view.

You see I use to go into a movie and I didn’t know what to expect. I might have seen a trailer. Maybe a friend suggested I go see it.

Now when I walk into a movie, I have already had everyone tell me how I should be thinking. I have had to listen to the actors and actresses, go on and on about the lessons they want the film to convey.

Endless discussion on what is the way I should be thinking about this and that.

I don’t care about what they believe .

Let the art speak for itself.

Let it evoke the emotions in me, don’t try to influence the path of self discovery.

This is our film, we hope you find meaning in it.

That’s art.

This is our film, this is how it should make you feel, otherwise this means _____ about you.

That to me is propaganda.

Another thought - I believe you've talked about your wife checking to see if a film is "propaganda." If what makes a film propaganda is not innate in the film but rather the discussion around that film, I assume that checking to see if a film is "propaganda" consists of reading the discussion around the film. Isn't this a schrodinger's cat situation - the very act of intentionally engaging with the dialogue around the film changes a film from "not propaganda" to "propaganda?" - observation changes the nature of the thing observed? Why not just go into the film cold like you used to?

 

[Disney Irish]

As far as people telling you what you should be thinking, that’s pretty much how life goes. Just politely acknowledge their input and then think for yourself.

And that is exactly how I can go into a movie without having some preconceived notion of how I'm suppose to think about it. I just ignore all of the rhetoric about it and just form my own opinion. I'm guessing a lot of people have lost that ability in the social media era.

 

[Chi84]

And that is exactly how I can go into a movie without having some preconceived notion of how I'm suppose to think about it. I just ignore all of the rhetoric about it and just form my own opinion. I'm guessing a lot of people have lost that ability in the social media era.

I’m at a loss when people counter my posts with “most people don’t think that way” or “most people don’t agree with you.”

 

[Trauma]

Another thought - I believe you've talked about your wife checking to see if a film is "propaganda." If what makes a film propaganda is not innate in the film but rather the discussion around that film, I assume that checking to see if a film is "propaganda" consists of reading the discussion around the film. Isn't this a schrodinger's cat situation - the very act of intentionally engaging with the dialogue around the film changes a film from "not propaganda" to "propaganda?" - observation changes the nature of the thing observed? Why not just go into the film cold like you used to?

I wish we could have this conversation because it’s a good question and it deserves an answer.

I just don’t know how to have it on these forums.

In my lifetime this is the closest I have seen the two “sides” be to flat out hating each other.

That is not a good thing. But I’m sure you sense it yourself.

It’s like a line has been drawn in the sand and you better make sure your money does not cross to the other side.

Don’t act like it’s one sided either. You know both sides can be crazy.

So the answer to your question is, I don’t want to give my money to people who hate me.

 

[TP2000]

I doubt many people could name 7 actors with dwarfism in the history of acting. Off the top of my head it’s Warwick Davis, Peter Dinklage, Gary Coleman (not even sure he had dwarfism, I seem to remember he had kidney issues), Brad Williams (technically a hilarious comedian but I think he’s acted also), Emanuel Lewis, then Mini Me (can’t remember his name), and the “plane” guy from Paradise Island (can’t remember his name). Hard to get famous if you can’t get a job.

Herve' Villachez! Da plane, da plane! (I'm sure I spelled his name wrong, and I can't find the tilda key on my keyboard)

Honestly, I'm old and I remember when dwarf actors were in some stuff semi-regularly and we didn't have to pretend they don't exist. And yet the only names that come to mind are Billy Barty and Herve Villachez.

If I didn't have a date on Saturday nights, I was rather happy with the double feature of The Love Boat and Fantasy Island. Or... now that I think about it more, if I was getting ready to go out I was blow drying my hair to Fantasy Island to hit the bars looking good right at the magic hour.

 

[Phroobar]

We will never see a movie as great as the original Time Bandits.
Why couldn't the dwarves look like this?

 

[Trauma]

Somehow this is turning into an even bigger train wreck.

Everyone involved in this is making themselves look bad.

Disney should have just canned this thing and never released it.

 

[Disney Irish]

Somehow this is turning into an even bigger train wreck.

Everyone involved in this is making themselves look bad.

Disney should have just canned this thing and never released it.

I'm sorry but did something happen in the past 12 hours? Because as far as I can tell nothing new has happened.