Disney (and others) at the Box Office - Current State of Affairs

[Disney Irish]

I didn't say people wouldn't make a fuss. I said it would be less. Of course people will be offended either way. But the guy doesn't speak for the entire community. Don't forget, he played a dwarf character early in his career too. I've seen plenty of support for live actors. I've seen almost no support for Dinklages take. I guess it doesn't matter at this point. It's just one more thing on the pile of nonsense associated with this film.

To say it would have been less is something that is unprovable. We don't know how people we have reacted. There could have been even more blow-back for all we know. Dinklage might have been able to garner enough support for this cause that it started a whole storm of blow-back against Disney. Them trying to be respectful even if the outcome wasn't ideal for everyone in the community is probably the best they could have hoped for. Basically they were damned if they do and damned if they don't.

But you're right it doesn't matter at this point. I think this mental exercise of trying to say xyz would have cause this film to be less of a bomb is not fruitful. Any number of things done "right" or an approximation of "right" and it still could have been the same outcome.

For as critical of a property as this is for the Studio, this is probably just one remake they didn't need to do. And I say that as someone who actually thought it was ok, not great, just ok.

 

[Disney Irish]

So he transcends the whole community? Don't get me wrong, I've liked just about everything he's been in. But he was given that opportunity with roles that he's opposing. Now if Disney comes out and says they did all theses focus groups and says the community overwhelmingly said it's insulting to play those roles. Ok fine. But based on the reaction to the film and cgi dwarfs. I'd say Peter should just take the L on this one. I'd ask you, why is his opinion more valid than the interview I posted?

If the general public thinks of one actor at this point with Dwarfism, its probably him. Go back a generation or two and its probably Warwick Davis or Billy Barty, and even to a minor extent Verne Troyer. But for most modern audiences he is the face of the community.

So he has a platform, right or wrong, and as you can see he uses it. So yeah I would say he sort of transcends the whole community for a lot in the general public and speaks for them, again right or wrong.

 

[erasure fan1]

To say it would have been less is something that is unprovable. We don't know how people we have reacted. There could have been even more blow-back for all we know.

Well yea. Every thought you give is unprovable, as is mine or anyone else on here. I thought that was a given? The point of the forum is discussion. There sure could have been a huge backlash with real actors. But the data doesn't really play that out. I say that from the mostly negative reaction to his take from most, including the community.

Any number of things done "right" or an approximation of "right" and it still could have been the same outcome.

True. But that's mainly because of the other baggage that went along with the film. And if everything that was a PR problem didn't exist, you still have to make a good film. So yea, live action dwarfs weren't helping. But that wasn't really the point. It was more about letting one represent all the voices and the hypocrisy that goes with it.

 

[Trauma]

Both Zegler and Gadot look white to me. Sure, they aren't Northern European white, but I would struggle to categorise them as another "race".

Yes, but it blew up into a huge story.

I know many people all over the world and I talk to them on an almost daily basis.

Even my friends in India knew about the controversy.

YouTube is a very powerful for spreading current events.

At the end of the day how badly did Zegler hurt the film?

We will never know.

To say she has had no negative effect ( I am aware you are not trying to make that argument ) is absurd.

Disney has already shifted course and things are looking up.

Stitch should be a blockbuster since it doesn’t seem like Disney is including any propaganda.

Will be a fun time with Epic universe opening and Stitch a few days later.

 

[Chi84]

So he transcends the whole community? Don't get me wrong, I've liked just about everything he's been in. But he was given that opportunity with roles that he's opposing. Now if Disney comes out and says they did all theses focus groups and says the community overwhelmingly said it's insulting to play those roles. Ok fine. But based on the reaction to the film and cgi dwarfs. I'd say Peter should just take the L on this one. I'd ask you, why is his opinion more valid than the interview I posted?

It isn’t more valid. But then I don’t think his words had any bearing on Disney’s choices with this movie. They knew the subject matter was going to be problematic and went ahead anyway.

Posters want others to ignore an actor’s words if they don’t want those words to cause an uproar and to pay close attention if they do want those words to cause an uproar.

 

[LittleBuford]

Stitch should be a blockbuster since it doesn’t seem like Disney is including any propaganda.

“Propaganda” is such an inappropriate and unhelpful word to use in this discussion. The hyperbole and sensationalism in this thread are exhausting.

 

[Trauma]

“Propaganda” is such an inappropriate and unhelpful word to use in this discussion. The hyperbole and sensationalism in this thread are exhausting.

You’re entitled to your point of view. As am I.

You call it what you wish, I call it propaganda.

 

[Disney Irish]

There sure could have been a huge backlash with real actors. But the data doesn't really play that out. I say that from the mostly negative reaction to his take from most, including the community.

I don't think the data actually bears anything out, as its not in-depth enough to formulate a consciousness one way or the other. As I'm sure you can find some who would have agree with Dinklage and some that disagree with him.

True. But that's mainly because of the other baggage that went along with the film. And if everything that was a PR problem didn't exist, you still have to make a good film. So yea, live action dwarfs weren't helping. But that wasn't really the point. It was more about letting one represent all the voices and the hypocrisy that goes with it.

Its not like Disney didn't know anyone in the community they couldn't ask. They've worked with plenty of actors in the community over the years. So its clear they made a decision for a reason, whether we agree or not. So I don't think Dinklage speaking for the entire community was the basis for their whole decision, maybe just part of it.

 

[Casper Gutman]

“Propaganda” is such an inappropriate and unhelpful word to use in this discussion. The hyperbole and sensationalism in this thread are exhausting.

If we don’t use hyperbole and sensationalism to pretend tremendous wrongs have been committed against us, how can we justify the awful things we intend to do in “response?”

 

[Trauma]

If we don’t use hyperbole and sensationalism to pretend tremendous wrongs have been committed against us, how can we justify the awful things we intend to do in “response?”

No one is pretending tremendous wrongs have been committed. What awful thing have I done?

Didn’t buy a movie ticket?

Well I hope I don’t go to prison !!

 

[Casper Gutman]

No one is pretending tremendous wrongs have been committed. What awful thing have I done?

Didn’t buy a movie ticket?

Well I hope I don’t go to prison !!

What makes a film “propaganda?”

 

[LittleBuford]

No one is pretending tremendous wrongs have been committed. What awful thing have I done?

Didn’t buy a movie ticket?

Well I hope I don’t go to prison !!

While I wouldn’t necessary frame it as @Casper Gutman did in the context of our interactions here in the forum, the extreme thinking and rhetoric that pervade this thread have led us down some very unproductive avenues. These include:

- The claim that side seats at cinema screenings cannot possibly have been bought by real customers, with the insinuation that Disney must have purchased them.

- The slurring of Zegler as a supporter of terrorism.

- An anger-fuelled fixation on Zegler by those who claim not to care about what she has to say yet seem to hang on her every word.

- A general lack of decorum, civility, and self-control. Very rarely has anyone here apologised for or acknowledged their lapses of judgement or errors, even when (as with the side-seat conspiracy) clear evidence to the contrary has been offered.

I wish we’d all behave here as we (presumably) do in real life. Things would be much more pleasant, fruitful, and measured.

 

[Trauma]

What makes a film “propaganda?”

I’m not playing your game Casper.

Your a smart guy I’m sure you will figure it out.

 

[Chi84]

What makes a film “propaganda?”

And how would that term apply to Snow White? How is Disney trying to influence people with this film and in furtherance of what agenda?

 

[Trauma]

While I wouldn’t necessary frame it as @Casper Gutman did in the context of our interactions here in the forum, the extreme thinking and rhetoric that pervade this thread have led us down some very unproductive avenues. These include:

- The claim that side seats at cinema screenings cannot possibly have been bought by real customers, with the insinuation that Disney must have purchased them.

- The slurring of Zegler as a supporter of terrorism.

- An anger-fuelled fixation on Zegler by those who claim not to care about what she has to say yet seem to hang on her every word.

- A general lack of decorum, civility, and self-control. Very rarely has anyone here apologised for or acknowledged their lapses of judgement or errors, even when (as with the side-seat conspiracy) clear evidence to the contrary has been offered.

I wish we’d all behave here as we (presumably) do in real life. Things would be much more pleasant, fruitful, and measured.

So someone thinks something weird about side seats and this is extreme rhetoric ?

Buford you know she deserves some of the criticism for her comments.

Just because some people take it to far doesn’t mean the conversation should be shutdown.

Otherwise no one can critique Elon because some bad apples have gone to far and set cars on fire.

I hate how 12 people saying stupid things on X is always amplified to Zegler haters are all racists!!

It’s just nonsense.

Most people are just sick of every movie having to have some eye rolling message being jammed down our throat.

Every time someone says something like this, here comes the attack mob.

What do you mean by this?

What do you mean by that?

Hoping you say one word wrong so they can jump all over you and call you some type of -ist.

So here is what I mean by it.

I just want to go to a freaking Disney movie and not be reminded of all the political garbage we already have to deal with day to day.

Is that really a terrible thing to ask?

If so then bombs away on me, I guess I’m a terrible person.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Do you actually know 7 other actors with dwarfism? Let alone be able to actually comment on their careers?

I doubt many people could name 7 actors with dwarfism in the history of acting. Off the top of my head it’s Warwick Davis, Peter Dinklage, Gary Coleman (not even sure he had dwarfism, I seem to remember he had kidney issues), Brad Williams (technically a hilarious comedian but I think he’s acted also), Emanuel Lewis, then Mini Me (can’t remember his name), and the “plane” guy from Paradise Island (can’t remember his name). Hard to get famous if you can’t get a job.

 

[LittleBuford]

So someone thinks something weird about side seats and this is extreme rhetoric ?

I wrote extreme thinking and rhetoric. And yes, thinking that there is some nefarious conspiracy involving side seats is an example of the former.

Buford you know she deserves some of the criticism for her comments.

I never said she didn’t. On the contrary, I myself have criticised her multiple times for some of her remarks.

Just because some people take it to far doesn’t mean the conversation should be shutdown.

When on earth did I say the conversation should be shut down? Your suggesting that I did is an example of the very problem I’m talking about—needless and unhelpful exaggeration.

 

[LittleBuford]

Having not yet seen the film (I’m doing so tomorrow), I can’t really opine knowledgeably on its messaging, but based on what I understand of the themes it deals with, the claim that it is propaganda would have to be extended to many beloved Disney classics that also celebrate such themes as societal justice (The Hunchback of Notre Dame), fairness (Robin Hood), and female empowerment (Frozen).

 

[Disney Irish]

I doubt many people could name 7 actors with dwarfism in the history of acting. Off the top of my head it’s Warwick Davis, Peter Dinklage, Gary Coleman (not even sure he had dwarfism, I seem to remember he had kidney issues), Brad Williams (technically a hilarious comedian but I think he’s acted also), Emanuel Lewis, then Mini Me (can’t remember his name), and the “plane” guy from Paradise Island (can’t remember his name). Hard to get famous if you can’t get a job.

That was my point. TP can’t either, which makes his post weird. That he seems to care about 7 actors with dwarfism he’s never heard of let alone knows what they’re names are or what they’re currently doing in their careers. As if they’re out on the street homeless all because Dinklage took their roles away with his comments while he gets to work.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney tells the stories they want to tell and makes movies they want to make for their own reasons.

More often than not it seems they lose money on their movies, but that is not going to stop them from telling the stories they want to tell or make the movies they want to make.

We have the choice to go to the theater to see them or wait for them to get on Disney+ or not watch them at all.