WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Agent H]

True, although I think many people have moved their visits around to avoid the summer months.

Summer is quickly becoming the new slow season.

 

[UNCgolf]

Totally subjective, but I feel like people look back on the WDW of yore with rose colored glasses, while there's a lot of "hedonistic treadmill" effect today. Unpopular opinion but I actually think the parks are leaps and bounds better now than they were in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I loved the parks in the 80s / 90s, but I also recall they were sweltering, it was in the days before Gentle Parenting so if your parents told you to stand in an hour long line in the sun you damn well stood in an hour long line, and most of Epcot was boring as all get out. This woman is saying the new system is too complicated, but it's not like the alternative was to jump on any ride you wanted in 10 minutes back in the day. It was to wait for an eternity or to skip that ride, both of which I remember doing. We just didn't ride Dumbo, or consider riding it, because the lines were way too long, and that was that.

Again, however, totally subjective. YMMV. Also, I do agree that the hotel prices are insane for some of the deluxes. Clearly supported by supply and demand or they wouldn't be that high, but still, insane.

Don't get me wrong, I feel for TikTok mom. I've visited Disney as a kid, a young adult, an auntie, and a mom, and yeah, visiting as a mom is way, waaaay more stressful. It's basically an "Expectations vs. Reality" reel that writes itself, lol. But in my opinion that's not a Disney thing, that's a "being a mom" thing.

I don't think it's rose colored glasses -- I think people just like different things.

For me, EPCOT wasn't boring; it was the best theme park ever built. It was the reason I fell in love with Disney as a kid in the early 90s, not the Magic Kingdom. I also preferred the 1990s versions of Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios, because they offered more of what interests me in a theme park.

I don't think that makes them objectively better then, though, because something like that can't really be objective. But I also don't think it's just nostalgia/rose colored glasses -- there were different things on offer then that no longer exist.

 

[Agent H]

I don't think it's rose colored glasses -- I think people just like different things.

For me, EPCOT wasn't boring; it was the best theme park ever built. It was the reason I fell in love with Disney as a kid in the early 90s, not the Magic Kingdom. I also preferred the 1990s versions of Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios, because they offered more of what interests me in a theme park.

I don't think that makes the objectively better then, though, because something like that can't really be objective. But I also don't think it's just nostalgia/rose colored glasses -- there were different things on offer then that no longer exist.

Epcot was better the rest you can debate but I’m leaning more towards present day is better.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yes I’m sure kids are so sad that they can’t swim in the alligator infested water.

Wdw is a swamp…things live in swamps. True story: if they had bought the land after 1973…it also would have been classified as toxic dump under federal law

 

[DisneyHead123]

I don't think it's rose colored glasses -- I think people just like different things.

For me, EPCOT wasn't boring; it was the best theme park ever built. It was the reason I fell in love with Disney as a kid in the early 90s, not the Magic Kingdom. I also preferred the 1990s versions of Magic Kingdom and Hollywood Studios, because they offered more of what interests me in a theme park.

I don't think that makes the objectively better then, though, because something like that can't really be objective. But I also don't think it's just nostalgia/rose colored glasses -- there were different things on offer then that no longer exist.

Of course, I don’t at all mean that it’s right or wrong to like certain things. What I mean is that I suspect that if many people could be magically transported back in time, as adults, to the 1980s parks, they might be surprised to find they actually prefer the parks of today. But that’s just a hunch, of course, no way of knowing for sure.

 

[monothingie]

Summer is quickly becoming the new slow season.

Which should be horrifying for anyone at Disney that's paying attention.

 

[Agent H]

Which should be horrifying for anyone at Disney that's paying attention.

Why? the entire world is getting hotter because of climate change thus no one wants to go in summer. the same thing is true at universal.

 

[monothingie]

Why? the entire world is getting hotter because of climate change thus no one wants to go in summer. the same thing is true at universal.

Summer is peak travel season for families with children. (You know Disney's core customer)

Those families are still traveling en masse to Florida. (Airport traveler numbers consistently and conclusively show that.)

Those families are going places other than expensive themed resort destinations.

Don't believe they're worried about it? Free Dining, Up to 35% general public discounts, Up to 40% AP discounts, and other special offers say they're in a panic over it.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Why? the entire world is getting hotter because of climate change thus no one wants to go in summer. the same thing is true at universal.

Average high/low temps (F/C) in Orlando for 5 months since 2010:

88	68	May	31	20
91	73	June	33	23
92	74	July	33	23
92	75	August	33	24
90	73	September	32	23

Average high/low temps (F/C) in Orlando for 5 months since 1991:

88	69	May	31	20
91	73	June	33	23
92	75	July	33	24
92	75	August	33	24
90	74	September	32	23

 

[UNCgolf]

Epcot was better the rest you can debate but I’m leaning more towards present day is better.

Hollywood Studios is wildly different today than it was then. It definitely has more attractions now, but it had more cohesive theming parkwide back then, including entertainment/streetmosphere and shopping. It's almost hard to compare because the current version is such a different park with a different focus, but the old version (despite fewer attractions) offered more interesting stuff to see/do outside of the attractions themselves for me. I definitely understand why people prefer the current version with the bigger attraction lineup, though.

Magic Kingdom is relatively similar now vs. then, but Splash was better than Tiana, Tomorrowland was much, much better, and the theming overall was better (i.e. they had unique themed shops like Disney-MGM that have generally been eliminated for generic stuff instead). I also preferred the hub with trees, and 20K was a better attraction than 7DMT and Little Mermaid, although NFL did add other things.

Shopping has really taken a huge hit over the years. They went from having at least some heavily themed stores and unique merchandise to the vast majority of shops selling the exact same stuff as other shops, as well as the World of Disney.

 

[UNCgolf]

Of course, I don’t at all mean that it’s right or wrong to like certain things. What I mean is that I suspect that if many people could be magically transported back in time, as adults, to the 1980s parks, they might be surprised to find they actually prefer the parks of today. But that’s just a hunch, of course, no way of knowing for sure.

Yeah, I'm positive I wouldn't, because most of my favorite attractions have been eliminated and I don't really like most of what they've built in the past 15-20 years. I also preferred the heavier theming back then. It's basically that a lot of the stuff I liked about the parks has been eliminated and I'm not a big fan of most of what's replaced it, which is probably why I don't feel much of a draw to go back now (I haven't been in a few years and don't have any current plans to go to WDW).

But I'm sure you're right that some people would!

 

[flynnibus]

Totally subjective, but I feel like people look back on the WDW of yore with rose colored glasses, while there's a lot of "hedonistic treadmill" effect today. Unpopular opinion but I actually think the parks are leaps and bounds better now than they were in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I loved the parks in the 80s / 90s, but I also recall they were sweltering, it was in the days before Gentle Parenting so if your parents told you to stand in an hour long line in the sun you damn well stood in an hour long line, and most of Epcot was boring as all get out.

Again... an example of where the world caught up to Disney. Long lines were not something unique to Disney... but it's peers were to stand in endless chain rows at your regional park for the roller coaster that ran 1 or 2 trains so had excessive waits. You went to Disney, you had themed queues, you had a lot of indoor queues.. you had rides that churned through thousands an hour. Later we got pre-shows and effects and things to grab your attention in the queues. Disney was once again, blazing paths, wowing the guests, and they were the masters of managing long waits and making them more tolerable vs peers of the time.

In the following decades, people copied them.. more of what they did became 'normal', and now we are in the era of smart devices, short attention spans, and selfish coddling needs. People stab each other for the chance to skip a line.

This isn't "rose colored glasses" -- This is very much how Disney used to be different and so much ahead of the alternatives. That difference has since been eroded.. while the Disney premium pricing has not. That makes people more critical of the price vs their resulting experience.

This woman is saying the new system is too complicated, but it's not like the alternative was to jump on any ride you wanted in 10 minutes back in the day. It was to wait for an eternity or to skip that ride, both of which I remember doing.

Yup, and in many ways, avoiding the commando run through the parks is better overall.. even with the negatives.

 

[SteveAZee]

Average high/low temps (F/C) in Orlando for 5 months since 2010:

88	68	May	31	20
91	73	June	33	23
92	74	July	33	23
92	75	August	33	24
90	73	September	32	23

Average high/low temps (F/C) in Orlando for 5 months since 1991:

88	69	May	31	20
91	73	June	33	23
92	75	July	33	24
92	75	August	33	24
90	74	September	32	23

I'm curious about your source for this. I asked ChatGPT and got this:
(I picked July and 30 years... didn't try other months or time spans)

"Over the past 30 years, July temperatures in Orlando, Florida, have shown a warming trend. Here's a comparison:

July 1995:
Average High: Approximately 91.9°F
Average Low: Approximately 73.9°F

July 2024:
Average High: 94.9°F
Average Low: 76.1°F
Temperature Increase (1995 to 2024):

Average High Increase: 3.0°F
Average Low Increase: 2.2°F
These figures indicate a noticeable rise in both daytime and nighttime temperatures during July in Orlando over the past three decades."

 

[HauntedPirate]

I'm curious about your source for this. I asked ChatGPT and got this:
(I picked July and 30 years... didn't try other months or time spans)

"Over the past 30 years, July temperatures in Orlando, Florida, have shown a warming trend. Here's a comparison:

July 1995:
Average High: Approximately 91.9°F
Average Low: Approximately 73.9°F

July 2024:
Average High: 94.9°F
Average Low: 76.1°F
Temperature Increase (1995 to 2024):

Average High Increase: 3.0°F
Average Low Increase: 2.2°F
These figures indicate a noticeable rise in both daytime and nighttime temperatures during July in Orlando over the past three decades."

Orlando FL Average Temperatures by Month - Current Results

Detailed temperature information for Orlando, Florida with statistics on average monthly highs and lows plus number of days with hot or cold weather.

www.currentresults.com

Other sites provide similar numbers. Remember these are years-long averages, not a one-month snapshot.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Again... an example of where the world caught up to Disney. Long lines were not something unique to Disney... but it's peers were to stand in endless chain rows at your regional park for the roller coaster that ran 1 or 2 trains so had excessive waits. You went to Disney, you had themed queues, you had a lot of indoor queues.. you had rides that churned through thousands an hour. Later we got pre-shows and effects and things to grab your attention in the queues. Disney was once again, blazing paths, wowing the guests, and they were the masters of managing long waits and making them more tolerable vs peers of the time.

In the following decades, people copied them.. more of what they did became 'normal', and now we are in the era of smart devices, short attention spans, and selfish coddling needs. People stab each other for the chance to skip a line.

This isn't "rose colored glasses" -- This is very much how Disney used to be different and so much ahead of the alternatives. That difference has since been eroded.. while the Disney premium pricing has not. That makes people more critical of the price vs their resulting experience.

Yup, and in many ways, avoiding the commando run through the parks is better overall.. even with the negatives.

I dunno, maybe I’m the exception not the rule. But I’m pretty happy with the parks overall, with some notable exceptions (Magic Express, Rivers, pell mell theming, the first version of Genie although I haven’t tried the updated pre book feature on the new one). The one argument for the 80s over today that I would find extremely compelling is the reduced environmental footprint - I do feel the burn of internal hypocrisy on that one. The merch, new cruise ships, increased food offerings and so on come at - a price. A very high price. So there’s that. But at a purely personal appeal level? Maybe I’m nuts but I’m still a fan (other than the cost, which of course no one likes.)

 

[Agent H]

I dunno, maybe I’m the exception not the rule. But I’m pretty happy with the parks overall, with some notable exceptions (Magic Express, Rivers, pell mell theming, the first version of Genie although I haven’t tried the updated pre book feature on the new one). The one argument for the 80s over today that I would find extremely compelling is the reduced environmental footprint - I do feel the burn of internal hypocrisy on that one. The merch, new cruise ships, increased food offerings and so on come at - a price. A very high price. So there’s that. But at a purely personal appeal level? Maybe I’m nuts but I’m still a fan (other than the cost, which of course no one likes.)

Pell Mel?

 

[DisneyHead123]

Pell Mel?

Parts of Epcot and Hollywood Studios are a bit Franken-park, with random parts sewn on. Contrasted to something like AK or World Showcase, with more consistent theming throughout.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Which should be horrifying for anyone at Disney that's paying attention.

You mean the 4 month block - generally speaking - where kids are not in school and up to “electronic no good”??

Why? the entire world is getting hotter because of climate change thus no one wants to go in summer. the same thing is true at universal.

The decline in attendance isn’t climate change…Florida packs them in…so are cruise lines…

So why aren’t they on the I-4 corridor?

 

[Jrb1979]

I dunno, maybe I’m the exception not the rule. But I’m pretty happy with the parks overall, with some notable exceptions (Magic Express, Rivers, pell mell theming, the first version of Genie although I haven’t tried the updated pre book feature on the new one). The one argument for the 80s over today that I would find extremely compelling is the reduced environmental footprint - I do feel the burn of internal hypocrisy on that one. The merch, new cruise ships, increased food offerings and so on come at - a price. A very high price. So there’s that. But at a purely personal appeal level? Maybe I’m nuts but I’m still a fan (other than the cost, which of course no one likes.)

I find the parks today not as enjoyable as they once were. The parks in the 80s and 90s were more enjoyable and had much better attractions.
One thing was each park was unique with its own theme. They also had much better dark rides compared to now. Give me Horizons, World of Motion and the original Journey over any attraction they have now.

IMO the best park of the parks was that IP wasn't in your face like it is now.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t know if I agree about demands drifting higher. We’re talking about upper middle class salaries at the bottom half of the top 10%. Customer service has taken such a drastic nosedive all around, paired with inflation, that Disney still looks relatively good in that area - to my mind at least. Where my parents live, they just don’t go out to eat anymore because the server shortage means such long wait times.

They aren’t pricing for the “upper middle class”…which is the point.

To use your parents example…Disney trips are getting the stigma of not “worth the hassle”

Genie really blew the top off that powderkeg…but it also turned the lights on some of the other roaches under the couch

Like the after hours…an awful trend that was mistaken tolerate by customers…

Now it’s getting rage for what it is…robbing your parks hours - with high costs and bogged down lines - so they can resell the park for almost no overhead at a premium.

How could that have ever been sniffed out?