WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Agent H]

Universal too. You can't have much of a fanbase if they are being priced out and can't afford to go.

Attendance being down does not immediately mean their diehard fans are being priced out. I'd imagine more tourists are being priced out because of the economy and that is only going to get worse.

 

[monothingie]

Is it? I’ve yet to see any definitive proof of this.

You should talk to a Disney TA. They will tell you (unofficially) that guest retention is a significant issue that the company is quite aware of.

 

[Jrb1979]

Attendance being down does not immediately mean people are their diehard fans are being priced out I'd imagine more tourists are being priced out the economy and that is only going to get worse.

That's the biggest problem. There is more tourist who visit the parks than diehard. Attendance is down now with travel still up. What's going to happen when that drops due to the economy?

The biggest question is if this continues how much do budgets get cut for the new attractions

 

[Jrb1979]

You should talk to a Disney TA. They will tell you (unofficially) that guest retention is a significant issue that the company is quite aware of.

If they are so aware of it, why aren't they doing anything about it?

 

[Agent H]

That's the biggest problem. There is more tourist who visit the parks than diehard. Attendance is down now with travel still up. What's going to happen when that drops due to the economy?

The biggest question is if this continues how much do budgets get cut for the new attractions

My guess. there going to rely more on annual pass holders.

 

[JoeCamel]

My guess. there going to rely more on annual pass holders.

Yeah we remember how they treated the APs during the last event, worked for 9/11 but today I think they lost them

 

[DisneyHead123]

They aren’t pricing for the “upper middle class”…which is the point.

To use your parents example…Disney trips are getting the stigma of not “worth the hassle”

Genie really blew the top off that powderkeg…but it also turned the lights on some of the other roaches under the couch

Like the after hours…an awful trend that was mistaken tolerate by customers…

Now it’s getting rage for what it is…robbing your parks hours - with high costs and bogged down lines - so they can resell the park for almost no overhead at a premium.

How could that have ever been sniffed out?

I dunno... I definitely felt that way about 3 years ago, but I've slowly warmed to the parks again. There is still a lot of love for Disney parks among people I know and we're not talking about uber wealthy people.

I guess 3 years ago it felt like it was nothing but cuts. Now? I feel like the proposed tradeoff is more of the "big stuff", in terms of park investment, new rides, new parades, hotels, etc. The customer service is still pretty darn good, to my mind, but I don't think it will ever be what it was circa 1970s given labor shortages and how much their operations have grown. I think they'll jump to automate things as soon as that's feasible and that will help a little with labor, but I see shortages in customer services being an ongoing problem. It's a new era for sure but at this point I see more upside to it than I did 3 years ago. If the promised improvements and investments never materialize feel free to work on an "I told you so" dance, lol. But for now I think they really mean it.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Your example is for an attraction that Disney *actually doubled the capacity* of. They recognized Dumbo was a problem, and they didn't just slap a $30 "bypass the standby line" upcharge for it. I suspect current Disney considers that a mistake. If there was still a single spinner, there would be more demand, less labor and maintenance costs, and more people would actively choose a LL for it (adding to the value of LL), because it would have longer regular waits. But it was an improvement that benefited all guests.

However, in this new arrangement I ride Dumbo a lot less. I used to ride Dumbo, and planned for it, and now I don't. In the old location, there was a benefit flying over central Fantasyland, that even as an adult I could appreciate, especially at night, that doesn't exist in the new spot, between the building and the trees. Which is better? I would still take the capacity improvements, but hoped Imagineers gave more thought to the site lines while in flight.

I can't tell if you're agreeing or disagreeing with what I said or a bit of both. I feel Dumbo was an improvement although at this point I get kind of sad about any of the iconic rides being changed. It's still pretty true to form though.

 

[Nubs70]

Orlando FL Average Temperatures by Month - Current Results

Detailed temperature information for Orlando, Florida with statistics on average monthly highs and lows plus number of days with hot or cold weather.

www.currentresults.com

Other sites provide similar numbers. Remember these are years-long averages, not a one-month snapshot.

ChatGPT simply scrubs the internet for existing information. No wonder similar sites provide similar numbers.

 

[Tha Realest]

Oh, like close to none .... But there are numbers you can put into a spreadsheet that show ifyou went on the cheapest date in 2018 and then cheapest date in 2024, adjusted for inflation it isn't that different


Problem is most people don't/can't go on the cheapest date so pricing is up and now you have to add in transport from the airport, etc

But “the cheapest date” is almost nonexistent.

Is it? I’ve yet to see any definitive proof of this.

Well, for starters, check out the fact that Florida tourism visitors and Walt Disney World attendance is heading in opposite directions.

 

[HauntedPirate]

If they are so aware of it, why aren't they doing anything about it?

Hubris

 

[HauntedPirate]

ChatGPT simply scrubs the internet for existing information. No wonder similar sites provide similar numbers.

ChatGPT in a nutshell - Garbage in, garbage out.

 

[HauntedPirate]

Yeah we remember how they treated the APs during the last event, worked for 9/11 but today I think they lost them

Those filthy AP holders? The ones who bring in their own food and drink, take up tables and seats to eat this smuggled-in food, steal the best spots for parades and shows, pay little per visit, and spend virtually no money? The ones TDO relies on to fill the parks when times are tough and they need a boost to whatever? Good riddance to those freeloading swine, they aren’t needed.

 

[SteveAZee]

That’s far more pertinent to the discussion.

This might be as well:

Climate Change - Florida Climate Center

climatecenter.fsu.edu

 

[JoeCamel]

Those filthy AP holders? The ones who bring in their own food and drink, take up tables and seats to eat this smuggled-in food, steal the best spots for parades and shows, pay little per visit, and spend virtually no money? The ones TDO relies on to fill the parks when times are tough and they need a boost to whatever? Good riddance to those freeloading swine, they aren’t needed.

Donny?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I agree with much of what you’ve said. People like different things; it doesn’t make you “nuts.”

Disney parks still have a huge fan base. The parks are fine if you can afford them.

The world is determined by consensus

What is “growing” in opinion?

The Parks are declining in enjoyment? The same? Or rising?

One personal opinion does not defeat a common sense assessment

Nor will it ever.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I dunno... I definitely felt that way about 3 years ago, but I've slowly warmed to the parks again. There is still a lot of love for Disney parks among people I know and we're not talking about uber wealthy people.

I guess 3 years ago it felt like it was nothing but cuts. Now? I feel like the proposed tradeoff is more of the "big stuff", in terms of park investment, new rides, new parades, hotels, etc. The customer service is still pretty darn good, to my mind, but I don't think it will ever be what it was circa 1970s given labor shortages and how much their operations have grown. I think they'll jump to automate things as soon as that's feasible and that will help a little with labor, but I see shortages in customer services being an ongoing problem. It's a new era for sure but at this point I see more upside to it than I did 3 years ago. If the promised improvements and investments never materialize feel free to work on an "I told you so" dance, lol. But for now I think they really mean it.

…mmmm…they ain’t adding much…nowhere close to refresh mostly stagnant parks

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

That's the problem. The fan base is shrinking slowly due to cost.

Correct. Simple and to the point.

Not catastrophic…but on a trend that will not fix itself,

Is it? I’ve yet to see any definitive proof of this.

Here’s how the press works: they don’t take flyers. It’s always something that can’t be shoved back in their face

This WSJ article? It came from the inside originally. “Disney worried about pricing” came from inside the room. It’s not a coincidence. Then they brought in Len and fleshed it out. Every negative writeup about anything Disney has a mole. Some obvious examples of late too.

 

[Chi84]

The world is determined by consensus

What is “growing” in opinion?

The Parks are declining in enjoyment? The same? Or rising?

One personal opinion does not defeat a common sense assessment

Nor will it ever.

I gave my own opinion. As always.

The parks are probably declining in enjoyment but I believe that’s primarily due to constantly rising prices.

Some people enjoyed the parks more years ago but there are many who enjoy them equally or even more now, depending on what they’re looking for.

I tend not to do much in the way of comparing what was to what is now. Others prefer to focus on that aspect. There’s nothing wrong with pining for the fjords; it just isn’t my way.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I gave my own opinion. As always.

The parks are probably declining in enjoyment but I believe that’s primarily due to constantly rising prices.

Some people enjoyed the parks more years ago but there are many who enjoy them equally or even more now, depending on what they’re looking for.

I tend not to do much in the way of comparing what was to what is now. Others prefer to focus on that aspect. There’s nothing wrong with pining for the fjords; it just isn’t my way.

Be afraid…we agree again