WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[HauntedPirate]

Why they're worrying. I applaud the price rises - keeps the riff raff out.

The key is to stop the locals on annual passes coming in day in day out causing chaos.

Well, if they haven't priced you out, then their mission is not yet accomplished.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I'm curious about your source for this. I asked ChatGPT and got this:
(I picked July and 30 years... didn't try other months or time spans)

"Over the past 30 years, July temperatures in Orlando, Florida, have shown a warming trend. Here's a comparison:

July 1995:
Average High: Approximately 91.9°F
Average Low: Approximately 73.9°F

July 2024:
Average High: 94.9°F
Average Low: 76.1°F
Temperature Increase (1995 to 2024):

Average High Increase: 3.0°F
Average Low Increase: 2.2°F
These figures indicate a noticeable rise in both daytime and nighttime temperatures during July in Orlando over the past three decades."

Orlando FL Average Temperatures by Month - Current Results

Detailed temperature information for Orlando, Florida with statistics on average monthly highs and lows plus number of days with hot or cold weather.

www.currentresults.com

Other sites provide similar numbers. Remember these are years-long averages, not a one-month snapshot.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Again... an example of where the world caught up to Disney. Long lines were not something unique to Disney... but it's peers were to stand in endless chain rows at your regional park for the roller coaster that ran 1 or 2 trains so had excessive waits. You went to Disney, you had themed queues, you had a lot of indoor queues.. you had rides that churned through thousands an hour. Later we got pre-shows and effects and things to grab your attention in the queues. Disney was once again, blazing paths, wowing the guests, and they were the masters of managing long waits and making them more tolerable vs peers of the time.

In the following decades, people copied them.. more of what they did became 'normal', and now we are in the era of smart devices, short attention spans, and selfish coddling needs. People stab each other for the chance to skip a line.

This isn't "rose colored glasses" -- This is very much how Disney used to be different and so much ahead of the alternatives. That difference has since been eroded.. while the Disney premium pricing has not. That makes people more critical of the price vs their resulting experience.

Yup, and in many ways, avoiding the commando run through the parks is better overall.. even with the negatives.

I dunno, maybe I’m the exception not the rule. But I’m pretty happy with the parks overall, with some notable exceptions (Magic Express, Rivers, pell mell theming, the first version of Genie although I haven’t tried the updated pre book feature on the new one). The one argument for the 80s over today that I would find extremely compelling is the reduced environmental footprint - I do feel the burn of internal hypocrisy on that one. The merch, new cruise ships, increased food offerings and so on come at - a price. A very high price. So there’s that. But at a purely personal appeal level? Maybe I’m nuts but I’m still a fan (other than the cost, which of course no one likes.)

 

[Agent H]

I dunno, maybe I’m the exception not the rule. But I’m pretty happy with the parks overall, with some notable exceptions (Magic Express, Rivers, pell mell theming, the first version of Genie although I haven’t tried the updated pre book feature on the new one). The one argument for the 80s over today that I would find extremely compelling is the reduced environmental footprint - I do feel the burn of internal hypocrisy on that one. The merch, new cruise ships, increased food offerings and so on come at - a price. A very high price. So there’s that. But at a purely personal appeal level? Maybe I’m nuts but I’m still a fan (other than the cost, which of course no one likes.)

Pell Mel?

 

[DisneyHead123]

Pell Mel?

Parts of Epcot and Hollywood Studios are a bit Franken-park, with random parts sewn on. Contrasted to something like AK or World Showcase, with more consistent theming throughout.

 

[Chi84]

I'm curious about your source for this. I asked ChatGPT and got this:
(I picked July and 30 years... didn't try other months or time spans)

"Over the past 30 years, July temperatures in Orlando, Florida, have shown a warming trend. Here's a comparison:

July 1995:
Average High: Approximately 91.9°F
Average Low: Approximately 73.9°F

July 2024:
Average High: 94.9°F
Average Low: 76.1°F
Temperature Increase (1995 to 2024):

Average High Increase: 3.0°F
Average Low Increase: 2.2°F
These figures indicate a noticeable rise in both daytime and nighttime temperatures during July in Orlando over the past three decades."

That’s far more pertinent to the discussion.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Which should be horrifying for anyone at Disney that's paying attention.

You mean the 4 month block - generally speaking - where kids are not in school and up to “electronic no good”??

Why? the entire world is getting hotter because of climate change thus no one wants to go in summer. the same thing is true at universal.

The decline in attendance isn’t climate change…Florida packs them in…so are cruise lines…

So why aren’t they on the I-4 corridor?

 

[Jrb1979]

I dunno, maybe I’m the exception not the rule. But I’m pretty happy with the parks overall, with some notable exceptions (Magic Express, Rivers, pell mell theming, the first version of Genie although I haven’t tried the updated pre book feature on the new one). The one argument for the 80s over today that I would find extremely compelling is the reduced environmental footprint - I do feel the burn of internal hypocrisy on that one. The merch, new cruise ships, increased food offerings and so on come at - a price. A very high price. So there’s that. But at a purely personal appeal level? Maybe I’m nuts but I’m still a fan (other than the cost, which of course no one likes.)

I find the parks today not as enjoyable as they once were. The parks in the 80s and 90s were more enjoyable and had much better attractions.
One thing was each park was unique with its own theme. They also had much better dark rides compared to now. Give me Horizons, World of Motion and the original Journey over any attraction they have now.

IMO the best park of the parks was that IP wasn't in your face like it is now.

 

[nickys]

Why they're worrying. I applaud the price rises - keeps the riff raff out.

The key is to stop the locals on annual passes coming in day in day out causing chaos.

Why are you being kept away ?

Disney is a business. It's not a back garden and nice landscape for locals to pop in day in day out to relax. It's a theme park that relies on tourists, international visitors who will spend money on hotels, merchandise, tickets for a couple of weeks, etc Locals are welcome, but quality spending locals, who will spend money in their parks - not locals who come for walk and bring their own food and drinks in for a picnic. These contribute to crowds and litter the parks for no benefit.

If you want a nice garden for a picnic, cut your lawn and grow some trees, and eat it there.

Disney is still a brilliant vacation. Years of penny pinching, not investing in the parks properly have left it flat at times. But as a vacation for a family i don't know anything better, and i've travelled the world. Combine it Universal being nearby it's near enough perfection.

Help me out here. Is it all locals you object to visiting? Or just locals who are are AP holders? What about non-local AP holders? How about international guests who are AP holders? Or DVC members who stay for a week and visit the parks a couple of times, cook in their villa and enjoy playing golf?

And if it’s still a brilliant vacation, why can the particular sub-group you despise so much (whichever group that might be) to not also enjoy it? Should Parisians not enjoy the Louvre? Or Londoners not enjoy all their parks? Why should those who happen to live locally not visit their local attractions, of whatever type that might be? I’m a member of my local zoo. I pop in for an hour or two on a nice weekend, no pressure to “get my money’s worth”, just a nice relaxing stroll around. With a picnic too. And just like Disney, they are happy for me to do so.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t know if I agree about demands drifting higher. We’re talking about upper middle class salaries at the bottom half of the top 10%. Customer service has taken such a drastic nosedive all around, paired with inflation, that Disney still looks relatively good in that area - to my mind at least. Where my parents live, they just don’t go out to eat anymore because the server shortage means such long wait times.

They aren’t pricing for the “upper middle class”…which is the point.

To use your parents example…Disney trips are getting the stigma of not “worth the hassle”

Genie really blew the top off that powderkeg…but it also turned the lights on some of the other roaches under the couch

Like the after hours…an awful trend that was mistaken tolerate by customers…

Now it’s getting rage for what it is…robbing your parks hours - with high costs and bogged down lines - so they can resell the park for almost no overhead at a premium.

How could that have ever been sniffed out?

 

[Chi84]

I dunno, maybe I’m the exception not the rule. But I’m pretty happy with the parks overall, with some notable exceptions (Magic Express, Rivers, pell mell theming, the first version of Genie although I haven’t tried the updated pre book feature on the new one). The one argument for the 80s over today that I would find extremely compelling is the reduced environmental footprint - I do feel the burn of internal hypocrisy on that one. The merch, new cruise ships, increased food offerings and so on come at - a price. A very high price. So there’s that. But at a purely personal appeal level? Maybe I’m nuts but I’m still a fan (other than the cost, which of course no one likes.)

I agree with much of what you’ve said. People like different things; it doesn’t make you “nuts.”

Disney parks still have a huge fan base. The parks are fine if you can afford them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Help me out here. Is it all locals you object to visiting? Or just locals who are are AP holders? What about non-local AP holders? How about international guests who are AP holders? Or DVC members who stay for a week and visit the parks a couple of times, cook in their villa and enjoy playing golf?

And if it’s still a brilliant vacation, why can the particular sub-group you despise so much (whichever group that might be) to not also enjoy it? Should Parisians not enjoy the Louvre? Or Londoners not enjoy all their parks? Why should those who happen to live locally not visit their local attractions, of whatever type that might be? I’m a member of my local zoo. I pop in for an hour or two on a nice weekend, no pressure to “get my money’s worth”, just a nice relaxing stroll around. With a picnic too. And just like Disney, they are happy for me to do so.

It’s just schtick…don’t bite on the hook

 

[nickys]

It’s just schtick…don’t bite on the hook

I know I shouldn’t but …..

 

[Jrb1979]

I agree with much of what you’ve said. People like different things; it doesn’t make you “nuts.”

Disney parks still have a huge fan base. The parks are fine if you can afford them.

That's the problem. The fan base is shrinking slowly due to cost.

 

[Agent H]

That's the problem. The fan base is shrinking slowly due to cost.

Is it? I’ve yet to see any definitive proof of this.

 

[Jrb1979]

Is it? I’ve yet to see any definitive proof of this.

You will never get the exact answer as Disney doesn't release actual numbers. They have said attendance has been flat or down the last few quarters. Add in that Florida is seeing record numbers of travelers to the state but many are avoiding the swamp. That's all parks.

 

[hopemax]

Totally subjective, but I feel like people look back on the WDW of yore with rose colored glasses, while there's a lot of "hedonistic treadmill" effect today. Unpopular opinion but I actually think the parks are leaps and bounds better now than they were in the 70s, 80s and 90s. I loved the parks in the 80s / 90s, but I also recall they were sweltering, it was in the days before Gentle Parenting so if your parents told you to stand in an hour long line in the sun you damn well stood in an hour long line, and most of Epcot was boring as all get out. This woman is saying the new system is too complicated, but it's not like the alternative was to jump on any ride you wanted in 10 minutes back in the day. It was to wait for an eternity or to skip that ride, both of which I remember doing. We just didn't ride Dumbo, or consider riding it, because the lines were way too long, and that was that.

Your example is for an attraction that Disney *actually doubled the capacity* of. They recognized Dumbo was a problem, and they didn't just slap a $30 "bypass the standby line" upcharge for it. I suspect current Disney considers that a mistake. If there was still a single spinner, there would be more demand, less labor and maintenance costs, and more people would actively choose a LL for it (adding to the value of LL), because it would have longer regular waits. But it was an improvement that benefited all guests.

However, in this new arrangement I ride Dumbo a lot less. I used to ride Dumbo, and planned for it, and now I don't. In the old location, there was a benefit flying over central Fantasyland, that even as an adult I could appreciate, especially at night, that doesn't exist in the new spot, between the building and the trees. Which is better? I would still take the capacity improvements, but hoped Imagineers gave more thought to the site lines while in flight.

 

[Agent H]

You will never get the exact answer as Disney doesn't release actual numbers. They have said attendance has been flat or down the last few quarters. Add in that Florida is seeing record numbers of travelers to the state but many are avoiding the swamp. That's all parks.

That doesn’t directly correlate to “the fan base shinking” though also by all parks do you mean universal too? Or just Disney?

 

[Jrb1979]

That doesn’t directly correlate to “the fan base shinking though also by all parks do you mean universal too? Or just Disney?

Universal too. You can't have much of a fanbase if they are being priced out and can't afford to go.

 

[Agent H]

Your example is for an attraction that Disney *actually doubled the capacity* of. They recognized Dumbo was a problem, and they didn't just slap a $30 "bypass the standby line" upcharge for it. I suspect current Disney considers that a mistake. If there was still a single spinner, there would be more demand, less labor and maintenance costs, and more people would actively choose a LL for it (adding to the value of LL), because it would have longer regular waits. But it was an improvement that benefited all guests.

However, in this new arrangement I ride Dumbo a lot less. I used to ride Dumbo, and planned for it, and now I don't. In the old location, there was a benefit flying over central Fantasyland, that even as an adult I could appreciate, especially at night, that doesn't exist in the new spot, between the building and the trees. Which is better? I would still take the capacity improvements, but hoped Imagineers gave more thought to the site lines while in flight.

You mean Tomorrowland? I’m not really sure what they could do to change that short of putting up plywood circus tents or something else cheap.