WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[lazyboy97o]

I don’t know how much crowding is due to the operating mode. Can Disney get enough CMs to go back to the longer hours and full operating capacity you are describing? My area has seen a shift in workers away from entry level positions.

How would you limit access? Park reservations?

A lot. Crowding is relative. There are plenty of busy days where they do things like close down half of a quick service restaurant at dinner.

They get people to work all of the different after hours events and parties. They must have some plan for operating the new attractions and timeshares they’re building.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Which is exactly as it should be. It was a simpler time, but you probably had no idea that places like Pleasure Island and Top of the World were a thing. EPCOT Center was an adult adventure for learning, entertaining, dining, and culture that didn't need Elsa or Moana. The quality of the attraction or experience was the draw for children and adults.

I was aware of Pleasure Island, but only because the name stuck out as a little weird given the movie context, lol! I was vaguely curious if it resembled the situation in Pinocchio but otherwise, yeah, not on my radar.

 

[Chi84]

I was aware of Pleasure Island, but only because the name stuck out as a little weird given the movie context, lol! I was vaguely curious if it resembled the situation in Pinocchio but otherwise, yeah, not on my radar.

Pleasure Island wasn’t just for adults. Our kids loved it too.

There was line-dancing in the Pink Armadillo, rock music in the Beach Club, stage entertainment on the streets and an all-ages improvisation comedy club among other things. Fireworks every night.

 

[mightynine]

"The top 10% of earners—households making about $250,000 a year or more—are splurging on everything from vacations to designer handbags, buoyed by big gains in stocks, real estate and other assets.

Those consumers now account for 49.7% of all spending, a record in data going back to 1989, according to an analysis by Moody’s Analytics. Three decades ago, they accounted for about 36%.

All this means that economic growth is unusually reliant on rich Americans continuing to shell out. Mark Zandi, chief economist at Moody’s Analytics, estimated that spending by the top 10% alone accounted for almost one-third of gross domestic product.”

Outside of Disney, this is NOT a good thing for the economy.

I forget which millionaire or billionaire said this years ago, but basically, they can’t buy enough blue jeans or washing machines to keep the industry going.

And to bring this back to the parks, they aren’t going to be enough rich people to make THEM work - they simply were made for a bigger customer base. Starcruiser showed how the numbers didn’t work in a nutshell.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Pleasure Island wasn’t just for adults. Our kids loved it too.

There was line-dancing in the Pink Armadillo, rock music in the Beach Club, stage entertainment on the streets and an all-ages improvisation comedy club among other things. Fireworks every night.

Sounds fun! As a kid I assumed it was a literal island involving a boat ride… since I haven’t thought about it since then, I just now realized that couldn’t be the case, lol!

 

[MisterPenguin]

Disney may be counting on the wealthy people who think designer handbags are stupid but won’t blink at buying a $15 sandwich.

Disney's selling the designer handbags, too.

And $1k per night rooms. And multi-thousand dollar VIP tours. And selling out a park for the night for the right price. And multi-thousand dollar weddings, and parties. And tens of thousands of dollars for Club 33 access. Disney is soaking the rich, too.

Meanwhile, over at USO, I met up with family for one day (today actually). The one-day hopper ticket was "starting at $174." Not too bad I thought. Except for that day, it was $200.

And one-use express pass was $105 per person.

 

[Jrb1979]

Disney's selling the designer handbags, too.

View attachment 846302View attachment 846303

And $1k per night rooms. And multi-thousand dollar VIP tours. And selling out a park for the night for the right price. And multi-thousand dollar weddings, and parties. And tens of thousands of dollars for Club 33 access. Disney is soaking the rich, too.

Meanwhile, over at USO, I met up with family for one day (today actually). The one-day hopper ticket was "starting at $174." Not too bad I thought. Except for that day, it was $200.

And one-use express pass was $105 per person.

First just like Disney, the more days you go the ticket averages out cheaper. A one day ticket.is going to be expensive. Second Express pass is priced that way to limit the amount of people buying so the Express pass queues don't get overwhelmed with people.

The biggest thing is the swamp is over priced for all parks. For $100 more for you one day at Universal I get 6 months access to all Cedar Fair parks with dining included. I know they aren't on the same level but that says a lot.

 

[Agent H]

This is getting too depressing

This certainly isn’t being helped by the proliferation of IP in the parks. The focus on franchisees that may not be popular with all demographics is problematic.

Quite frankly, not everyone is enamored with for example a princess attraction or meet and greet or sing-along or parade. The beauty of not relying on IP focused attractions was that they had wide appeal.

not everyone is going to be enamored with everything. use of an ip does not preclude anyone who doesn’t like the ip from enjoying it just look at Harry Potter.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Ok but 10% of a much larger (by over 100 million) number still has to be much larger, right? Unless you think 10% is not actually the metric they’re using (ie, it’s more a disposable income threshold).

But the problem is that Demo has more and more cash by the day…which means their demands drift higher…and Disney doesn’t provide a rising product to meet that. The park days, hotels and food quality are less consistent now than 20 years ago…not more

So they drive them out too

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

They’re just replacing older IP with newer in MK. But I agree they’re injecting too much IP into the other parks.

In 2006 Epcot had zero…none…IP based “rides”…save for the lion king conservation film in the land

Now they have 6…and only a couple of them actually fit in the park

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How long has this been a question? The parks are still busy and raking in cash.

Cutting back on services and amenities might be the only way to keep them even close to being affordable now. If people on the lower income side actually did stop visiting, they could reintroduce amenities and luxuries for the higher paying guests. Or pivot back to discounting.

They will be fine.

1. Where ya been, buddy? We missed you
2. The parks are not busy…in Orlando they are down 10% or so total from their peak (including a whopping 15% at magic kingdom) and falling
3. They have “increased” revenues through “cuts and prices increases”…not volume and sales. They have said it for about 12 quarters straight. Even Chicago economists would call that “not to good”
4. They increase prices across the board as they cut services, amenities and access. Which is what the original WSJ article is about…and that testy exchange on cnbc yesterday. This narrative is building steam.
5. They already are “discounting” more than any non-recession time since 1971…and it isn’t stemming the bleed at all.

…now 4 of these 5 bullet points are 100% true…one is not. Can you guess which one?

 

[donaldtoo]

1. Where ya been, buddy? We missed you
2. The parks are not busy…in Orlando they are down 10% or so total from their peak (including a whopping 15% at magic kingdom) and falling
3. They have “increased” revenues through “cuts and prices increases”…not volume and sales. They have said it for about 12 quarters straight. Even Chicago economists would call that “not to good”
4. They increase prices across the board as they cut services, amenities and access. Which is what the original WSJ article is about…and that testy exchange on cnbc yesterday. This narrative is building steam.
5. They already are “discounting” more than any non-recession time since 1971…and it isn’t stemming the bleed at all.

…now 4 of these 5 bullet points are 100% true…one is not. Can you guess which one?

Trick question, as they’re all true…!!!!!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Meanwhile, over at USO, I met up with family for one day (today actually). The one-day hopper ticket was "starting at $174." Not too bad I thought. Except for that day, it was $200.

And one-use express pass was $105 per person.

yeah, the single day tickets to Universal are expensive - as that is likely what most people want to do ... just do a day as part of their Orlando vacation or add a day to a Disney trip ... but if you want to go for more it gets cheaper - they are doing now (and have done often) the buy 2 days get 2 days free ... if willing to do that it makes the per day cheaper

but that is for a lot of places that most people don't want to / feel the need to do multiple days at

We did Dollywood a couple of years ago and I remember thinking the single day wasn't exactly cheap. I just checked and a single day ticket for 2025 is $92 - not Disney prices but definitely not cheap. Big difference is 2 days is $122 and 3 days is $132. So if you want to do 3 days there the per day is cheap ... issue is I don't think many people feel the need. I know we were done after 1 day and thought that was more than enough and while it was a little cheaper showed to us to be such a lesser experience than Disney - so guess you get what you pay for

Disney's tickets really stay expensive on a per day basis until you get to like a 6 or 7 day pass - but a lot more to do so people want more than 1 day for it

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yeah, the single day tickets to Universal are expensive - as that is likely what most people want to do ... just do a day as part of their Orlando vacation or add a day to a Disney trip ... but if you want to go for more it gets cheaper - they are doing now (and have done often) the buy 2 days get 2 days free ... if willing to do that it makes the per day cheaper

but that is for a lot of places that most people don't want to / feel the need to do multiple days at

We did Dollywood a couple of years ago and I remember thinking the single day wasn't exactly cheap. I just checked and a single day ticket for 2025 is $92 - not Disney prices but definitely not cheap. Big difference is 2 days is $122 and 3 days is $132. So if you want to do 3 days there the per day is cheap ... issue is I don't think many people feel the need. I know we were done after 1 day and thought that was more than enough and while it was a little cheaper showed to us to be such a lesser experience than Disney - so guess you get what you pay for

Disney's tickets really stay expensive on a per day basis until you get to like a 6 or 7 day pass - but a lot more to do so people want more than 1 day for it

You reinforced the point of the criticism

It used to get “cheap” after 3 or 4 days…and beyond that…remember what a hopper cost you…by chance?

 

[Jrb1979]

yeah, the single day tickets to Universal are expensive - as that is likely what most people want to do ... just do a day as part of their Orlando vacation or add a day to a Disney trip ... but if you want to go for more it gets cheaper - they are doing now (and have done often) the buy 2 days get 2 days free ... if willing to do that it makes the per day cheaper

but that is for a lot of places that most people don't want to / feel the need to do multiple days at

We did Dollywood a couple of years ago and I remember thinking the single day wasn't exactly cheap. I just checked and a single day ticket for 2025 is $92 - not Disney prices but definitely not cheap. Big difference is 2 days is $122 and 3 days is $132. So if you want to do 3 days there the per day is cheap ... issue is I don't think many people feel the need. I know we were done after 1 day and thought that was more than enough and while it was a little cheaper showed to us to be such a lesser experience than Disney - so guess you get what you pay for

Disney's tickets really stay expensive on a per day basis until you get to like a 6 or 7 day pass - but a lot more to do so people want more than 1 day for it

Most parks are expensive for one day, especially regional ones. Where the savings are is with season passes. Dollywood's season pass is $245. As I mentioned earlier my season pass with dining at all Six Flags parks is $400.

There's more people than you think that go to these parks multiple days. If most people only did a day or 2 at Universal they wouldn't have hotels and it would be more of a regional park.

 

[DisneyHead123]

But the problem is that Demo has more and more cash by the day…which means their demands drift higher…and Disney doesn’t provide a rising product to meet that. The park days, hotels and food quality are less consistent now than 20 years ago…not more

So they drive them out too

I don’t know if I agree about demands drifting higher. We’re talking about upper middle class salaries at the bottom half of the top 10%. Customer service has taken such a drastic nosedive all around, paired with inflation, that Disney still looks relatively good in that area - to my mind at least. Where my parents live, they just don’t go out to eat anymore because the server shortage means such long wait times.

 

[Creathir]

This TikTok has gone massively viral.



She is spot on.

The biggest key point here which should terrify Disney is her point regarding the premium price but a lack of a premium product.

A party who pays significantly (think luxury) for an item or service is going to expect luxury quality.

The security checks in the rooms, the lack of room service, heck 30 minutes to buy a drink at the pool bar, all are key indicators of how poorly managed and run the product is, yet they charge an above premium price.

She’s not going to recommend WDW to her friends, likely wont be back, and even was irritated enough to post on social media about it. And she can afford the premium experience and was staying at Poly.

WDW is pricing out the average joe, and is not delivering a product their target market finds attractive.

This is a huge problem.

 

[Disneydad1012]

This TikTok has gone massively viral.



She is spot on.

The biggest key point here which should terrify Disney is her point regarding the premium price but a lack of a premium product.

A party who pays significantly (think luxury) for an item or service is going to expect luxury quality.

The security checks in the rooms, the lack of room service, heck 30 minutes to buy a drink at the pool bar, all are key indicators of how poorly managed and run the product is, yet they charge an above premium price.

She’s not going to recommend WDW to her friends, likely wont be back, and even was irritated enough to post on social media about it. And she can afford the premium experience and was staying at Poly.

WDW is pricing out the average joe, and is not delivering a product their target market finds attractive.

This is a huge problem.

I saw this yesterday and immediately thought of this thread.

 

[Streetway Again]

This TikTok has gone massively viral.



She is spot on.

The biggest key point here which should terrify Disney is her point regarding the premium price but a lack of a premium product.

A party who pays significantly (think luxury) for an item or service is going to expect luxury quality.

The security checks in the rooms, the lack of room service, heck 30 minutes to buy a drink at the pool bar, all are key indicators of how poorly managed and run the product is, yet they charge an above premium price.

She’s not going to recommend WDW to her friends, likely wont be back, and even was irritated enough to post on social media about it. And she can afford the premium experience and was staying at Poly.

WDW is pricing out the average joe, and is not delivering a product their target market finds attractive.

This is a huge problem.

Disney is reaping what they have been sowing over the last few years. Hate to sound like one of “those guys” but it is true. Disney only has themselves to blame.

 

[HauntedPirate]

So, the on-site resorts are running at 85% capacity, per Disney's own quarterly statements, and some people are claiming the sky would fall (aka. parks would be overrun with guests) if they were full?

Remember when there were things to do outside the parks, and they were also affordable? Golf. Parasailing. Watercraft rentals. Arcades. Pleasure Island. Downtown Disney with multiple things to do and experience, not just be a collection of shopping and restaurants. Dinner shows. Luaus. Those who designed the place designed it to be a "resort", not just a collection of theme parks with hotels. The previous guy running the company knew that and worked towards providing things everyone could enjoy, and expanded offerings. The current guy thought that idea was stupid and has worked to rid the place of those sorts of things ever since 2005. They both ran the company for roughly the same amount of time, which one is going to be remembered 20 years from now in a more positive light? I'm betting on the former, not the lesser. I mean, latter.