Captain America 4

[Disney Irish]

Same applies for them too. If they can't hack it, then they shouldn't get the job. You can't get the guy that writes jokes for Jimmy Fallon to write a Marvel movie (antman 3).

First it was Jimmy Kimmel not Jimmy Fallon, and that was early in his career. He was also a very accomplished comic book writer for both DC and Marvel themselves. So he has the street cred to write for a Marvel movie. But you'd know that if you'd have done even a little research about something before posting these bad takes.

 

[brideck]

I've always admired the approach that DC used for its Superman comics in the triangle era -- the years before/after the original Doomsday story in the 90s. They had 4 monthly titles, each run by a different creative team, but a single editor overseeing them all. Every year they would have a big retreat to plan out the stories for all 4 titles to make sure they would fit together while still giving them room to focus on individual stories of interest.

I have no idea why Disney doesn't employ something like this for their Marvel or Star Wars stuff. e.g. I have no problem with using 3 separate directors/writing teams for a Star Wars trilogy (as was originally planned), but I'll never get over not putting all of them in the same room ahead of time. Nonsensical.

 

[brideck]

Except improvisation is a fairly common directing style by letting the actors just go with a scene without being rigid and locked to the script. Maybe not the screenwriters favorite as it throws out their script for the most part, but it does lead to some great movie making.

There's a huge difference between improvisation within a scene and not really having a scene to begin with or dramatically changing story once a movie is underway.

The latter two are much more rare.

 

[Disney Irish]

There's a huge difference between improvisation within a scene and not really having a scene to begin with or dramatically changing story once a movie is underway.

The latter two are much more rare.

Dunno, I hear about it often that you'd be surprised. Heck, filmmaking during the editing process is also a style, I believe Kubrick was famous for that.

Also I would say its different to go into preproduction without a script (something fairly common these days especially on blockbusters even outside Disney) than it is to go into actual production without one, which is rare.

 

[Dranth]

They shot almost 3 movies worth of footage. So it's obvious he wasn't the right person for the job.

You think that is uncommon?

 

[brideck]

go into actual production without one, which is rare.

That's the truth. I don't think I've ever seen a mumblecore movie that I liked, so I'm glad that's a rare way of doing things.

The biggest problem for me with the write the movie as your making it approach is that it makes it really difficult to bake any level of nuance or anything beyond the clumsiest foreshadowing into it because you don't necessarily know where it's going to end up. And that typically just makes for really flat exercises in executing a plot punctuated at times by lines that someone thinks are funny or sound awesome.

ETA: I think that using pickups to add scenes to serve some of the purposes I'm talking about can work as a process after the fact, but I don't think that's how Marvel does things.

 

[Disney Irish]

I haven't seen it yet, but I would guess that Disney waffled pretty hard on what they wanted this movie to be. You don't hire the writers of The Princess and the Frog and the D+ Falcon show and set it to be made by the director of Luce unless at some point in the development process you wanted it to really lean into the ramifications of having a black Captain America. For those who have seen it, does the finished product reflect that, or is it mostly only paid lip service?

Unfortunately, I can think of millions of reasons (or $$) why, from a commercial standpoint, it's a bad idea to focus this movie around that.

A lot of that was in the D+ show, but it is touched upon a bit in the movie though less than one would hope. I imagine that is some of the stuff that was taken out as the movie was refocused on other things during the reshoots. It however doesn’t take away anything from the importance of Sam being Cap and the pressure he feels and is displayed in the movie by taking up the Shield.

 

[Disney Irish]

That's the truth. I don't think I've ever seen a mumblecore movie that I liked, so I'm glad that's a rare way of doing things.

The biggest problem for me with the write the movie as your making it approach is that it makes it really difficult to bake any level of nuance or anything beyond the clumsiest foreshadowing into it because you don't necessarily know where it's going to end up. And that typically just makes for really flat exercises in executing a plot punctuated at times by lines that someone thinks are funny or sound awesome.

ETA: I think that using pickups to add scenes to serve some of the purposes I'm talking about can work as a process after the fact, but I don't think that's how Marvel does things.

Admittedly I’m just an amateur Cinephile so don’t know all the terms for the different styles, just know they exist and can speak a bit about them. So don’t butcher me for not knowing the different names.

As for the rest I don’t disagree, I just think it can make for some great filmmaking but just like anything it all comes down to execution.

 

[Disney Irish]

It is from the Box office stat firm EntTelligence stated the average ticket price for Cap 4 was $15.17 (general). This was from Deadline: http://deadline.com/2025/02/box-office-captian-america-brave-new-world-1236289044/

Your post just showed up, was probably under mod review this whole time.

Anyways, I question that statistic as just last November the same firm was quoting $11.82 for regular screens and $16.71 for premium screens. - https://www.cnbc.com/2024/11/01/thanksgiving-box-office-showdown-premium-screens.html

So I know inflation has been bad the last few years, but I highly doubt average ticket prices went up another $3.89, an almost 30% increase, in just 3 months for regular screens.

 

[Tha Realest]

What are you going on about now?

The MCU has been created on the backs of relatively unknown or "untested" directors, it was part of the formula that built their success. Even the arguably biggest named directors they've had that helped with their success like Joss Whedon never did a big budget franchise movie prior to joining the MCU. So this idea that its only big named directors who's done a big budget franchise movie already that can come into to do a big budget franchise movie is not only shortsighted but just plain wrong.

Jon Favreau, Louis Leterrier, Joe Johnston, Kenneth Branaugh, Shane Black, Peyton Reed, Ryan Coogler, and Scott Derrickson were not untested in any way, and all handled big or very well budgeted films before directing for Marvel.

 

[Disney Irish]

Jon Favreau, Louis Leterrier, Joe Johnston, Kenneth Branaugh, Shane Black, Peyton Reed, Ryan Coogler, and Scott Derrickson were not untested in any way, and all handled big or very well budgeted films before directing for Marvel.

Jon Favreau - 3 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)
Louis Leterrier - 3 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience unless you count the Transporter films)
Joe Johnston - 8 directing credits prior to the MCU all but 2 less than $100M budgets (only major franchise was Jurassic Park 3)
Kenneth Branagh - 11 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)
Shane Black - 1 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)
Peyton Reed - 4 movie directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience), bunch of TV directing credits
Ryan Coogler - 2 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)
Scott Derrickson - 5 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)

See a pattern, while some of these directors had prior experience NONE had any real major franchise experience with budgets over $100M except 1. Branagh would be the only one I would consider having any clout on this list, but he was a arthouse director for the most part.

Basically all of these guys except Joe Johnston were untested in handling a huge budget movie like in the MCU prior to them joining, and some of these guys only had a handful of directing credits to their name prior to joining.

So yeah I stand by my point, the MCU was built largely on the backs of untested and in many case unknown directors.

 

[Agent H]

Jon Favreau - 3 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)
Louis Leterrier - 3 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience unless you count the Transporter films)
Joe Johnston - 8 directing credits prior to the MCU all but 2 less than $100M budgets (only major franchise was Jurassic Park 3)
Kenneth Branagh - 11 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)
Shane Black - 1 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)
Peyton Reed - 4 movie directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience), bunch of TV directing credits
Ryan Coogler - 2 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)
Scott Derrickson - 5 directing credits prior to the MCU all less than $100M budgets (no major franchise experience)

See a pattern, while some of these directors had prior experience NONE had any real major franchise experience with budgets over $100M except 1.

Basically all of these guys except Joe Johnston were untested in handling a huge budget movie like in the MCU prior to them joining, and some of these guys only had a handful of directing credits to their name prior to joining.

So yeah I stand by my point, the MCU was built largely on the backs of untested and in many case unknown directors.

I looked up what movies favreau directed before iron man and the only one I’ve heard of or seen is elf now I don’t know if that’s because none of them are realavent or I just tend to ignore things I don’t care about but I thought this was worth adding to the conversation

 

[Disney Irish]

I looked up what movies favreau directed before iron man and the only I’ve heard of or seen is elf now I don’t know if that’s because none of them are realavent or I just tend to ignore things I don’t care about but I thought this was worth adding to the conversation

His 3 movies are -

Made - A mob movie he wrote and directed for him and his buddy Vince Vaughn
Elf - we all know Elf with Will Ferrell
Zathura - A somewhat spin-off sequel to the original Jumanji, basically Jumanji in space

I've seen all of them and they were good or ok, but none of these are big huge franchises, and certainly not anything on the level of an MCU movie.

 

[Agent H]

I looked up what movies favreau directed before iron man and the only one I’ve heard of or seen is elf now I don’t know if that’s because none of them are realavent or I just tend to ignore things I don’t care about but I thought this was worth adding to the conversation

I feel like I should clarify I do think elf is somewhat relevant I was referring to the other 2 movies

 

[Phroobar]

I feel like I should clarify I do think elf is somewhat relevant I was referring to the other 2 movies

I'm surprised you haven't seen Zathura. It's right up your alley.

 

[Agent H]

I'm surprised you haven't seen Zathura. It's right up your alley.

What’s it about?

 

[MisterPenguin]

What’s it about?

About 90 minutes.

 

[Alice a]

I agree that the lack of previous big budget experience has nothing to do with recent box office/nielsen struggles but it’s shocking to me how often I hear Disney hires say they have no connection to the projects they were hired to make, or say they disliked the previous projects, or they dislike the fans of the previous projects, or they wanted to make the fans of those precious projects uncomfortable or mad, etc. They even did this with the cruise lines when they hired someone to oversee their new ships who admitted they’d never been on a cruise, It’s weird to me Disney loves hiring people to make things they have zero emotional connection to.

When you watch interviews of the people who made something like season 1 of Mandalorian it’s evident they love Star Wars, that’s less true of hired gun directors or directors who were hired specifically because they wanted to make something different from the original projects the fans love.

Andor, arguably their most critically-acclaimed series, was made by non-Star Wars fans, and 2/3 of the derided Star Wars sequel trilogy were made by a huge fan- JJ Abrams.

Meanwhile, JJ had no interest in or love for Star Trek, but the general consensus is that he did a more successful job with that reboot.

I think there are pitfalls for both scenarios, and it takes a showrunner who’s able to build a team around them to mitigate their weaknesses that makes the difference between watchable and not.

Edit: to bring this back around to Captain America, unfortunately, while the word of mouth reviews I’ve heard make it seem like a fun ride, they’re not stellar enough for me to want to wear a mask for 2 hours to watch it.

We’re having a heck of a flu season this year, and it’s keeping me out of the theatres. I’ve already used half my PTO for the year due to COVID and a nasty cold in January/February, so I guess it’s waiting for Disney+ for me.

I wonder if the record flu season affects the numbers at all? We had 6 of our 11-person staff out with it last week.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

Joanna Robinson and Dave Gonzalez, who wrote the book "MCU: The Rise of Marvel Studios” are saying it cost 380 million for Captain Falcon.

It’s Captain America, whether you like it or not.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

unless at some point in the development process you wanted it to really lean into the ramifications of having a black Captain America. For those who have seen it, does the finished product reflect that, or is it mostly only paid lip service?

It’s explored more in-depth and directly in the TV series, which I recommend watching first for context.

I suspect that lack of context could be part of what led to lower scores.

It’s still in the film, though. It’s treated as important (as it deserves.) Some more subtle, some more overt.

I also suspect certain people don’t appreciate that, which could also be part of what led to lower scores.