Captain America 4

[Vegas Disney Fan]

All this talk of reshoots made me think of the making of Frozen 2 series on D+... countless meetings, countless changes, countless collaboration, countless internal screenings… just to have a test screening and realize it didn’t work with the public… followed by more meetings, more changes, more collaboration… the end product was still a bit confusing but ultimately well received and profitable.

Ideally the story would just work but if it doesn’t I’d rather have them reshoot the whole movie rather than release a bad product.

 

[erasure fan1]

Movies get delayed for all sorts of reasons. Heck in the last 4 years we've had so many movies delayed because of a once in a lifetime pandemic and an almost once in a lifetime dual strike. So there was a great shuffle of the entire release schedule for all studios.

In no way is that comparable to what I'm saying. A global pandemic is not something a studio could control. The strike is also something that no one thought red flag because of delays. Completing your movie, then reshooting 50 to 75% of it is well within a studios control.

Your example of Borderlands falls into bucket of the great shuffle. Because as far as I'm aware it only had one round of a 2 week reshoots. There was no major reshoots.

Borderlands was completed in 2021. Two weeks of reshoots are not taking almost 2yrs to complete. Even with the strike. It's extremely rare for a movie to finish filming then release 3+yrs later. Again not a death sentence, but a red flag.

In the grand scheme it doesn't really matter. If you consider red flag a negative and just a reason people bash a film, I won't convince you otherwise. In the end we have the same outcome, if the movie is good it didn't matter.

The thing I just can't get behind is the mindset that studios plan on huge lengthy reshoots that change huge portions of the film. In no world would any executive want to add 50/60/70% on to an already 180/200+ million dollar budget. Sure they do it because the alternative could be a catastrophe. But they absolutely don't factor that in when planning a film.

 

[Disney Irish]

In no way is that comparable to what I'm saying. A global pandemic is not something a studio could control. The strike is also something that no one thought red flag because of delays. Completing your movie, then reshooting 50 to 75% of it is well within a studios control.

My point was that delays for movies happen, it does not automatically mean a troubled production requiring major reshoots. I was using the fact that Hollywood had two major disruption events in the last 4 years as an example on why major delays would occur.

Borderlands was completed in 2021. Two weeks of reshoots are not taking almost 2yrs to complete. Even with the strike. It's extremely rare for a movie to finish filming then release 3+yrs later. Again not a death sentence, but a red flag.

You're making assumptions that the reason for delays was them reshooting the majority of the film. That is just not the case. I've found no confirmation or even substantiated rumor that Borderlands had anything more than 2 weeks worth of reshoots. For all we know it was a simple scheduling issue in getting the huge ensemble cast back together in one spot for the reshoot. I know that was the case with the director, which is why the studio had to bring in another director just for the reshoot.

We've also seen examples recently of completed movies being shelved by studios for various reasons, including for tax purposes. So there is that too. So just because there was a delay in release does not mean there was a troubled production requiring a majority of the film being reshot.

In the grand scheme it doesn't really matter. If you consider red flag a negative and just a reason people bash a film, I won't convince you otherwise. In the end we have the same outcome, if the movie is good it didn't matter.

I'm sorry but the term "red flag" has a negative connotation. There is no other way to look at it. You don't say something has a "red flag" and then look at it in a positive light. No you're automatically looking for problems. So I don't know how you can say its not a negative thing. And it most certain is used by people as a reason to bash a film, especially if it doesn't do well.

The thing I just can't get behind is the mindset that studios plan on huge lengthy reshoots that change huge portions of the film. In no world would any executive want to add 50/60/70% on to an already 180/200+ million dollar budget. Sure they do it because the alternative could be a catastrophe. But they absolutely don't factor that in when planning a film.

No one said that any studio goes into production on a movie expecting to reshoot a majority of a film after principal production. But they do certainly budget in a bit of reshoots into the budget, everything from small minor pick-ups to an entire scene reshoot. We certainly know this is true of Marvel films, its part of the reason why their budgets are so high.

 

[erasure fan1]

No one said that any studio goes into production on a movie expecting to reshoot a majority of a film after principal production.

Welllllll, that is exactly what you're saying. All I've said is huge massive reshoots and delays are not normal and can be a red flag. You've said over and over it's a normal part of production. It's absolutely not.

I just see it different, I don't call it a "red flag" in whatever connotation you want to use. To me its a normal part of production.

This is where again I say I see it differently. Because what is "normal" in Hollywood in terms of reshoots where every project is different?

___________________________________________

My point was that delays for movies happen, it does not automatically mean a troubled production requiring major reshoots.

That's fine, but not in anyway related to what I was saying. I agree 100% that reshoots happen and they're part of the process, we've established that. But referencing the pandemic as a reason there's long delays, while it did happen, you know that isn't what I was talking about.

You're making assumptions that the reason for delays was them reshooting the majority of the film. That is just not the case. I've found no confirmation or even substantiated rumor that Borderlands had anything more than 2 weeks worth of reshoots

100% I am, that's the point. A movie completed in 2021, not released for 3 and half years or more, is a red flag. And the, it's only 2 weeks of reshoots, actually reinforces red flag. That doesn't mean I'm going to rail on it that it's going to be a giant bomb.

I'm sorry but the term "red flag" has a negative connotation. There is no other way to look at it. You don't say something has a "red flag" and then look at it in a positive light.

Sure it can be, but it's a normal thing. I'm also not saying it's a positive thing. It's just a, hey there could be something there. I think the problem is, like a lot of people here, they look at everything through the lense of axe to grind YouTubers. I've seen many headlines that say, X film is in massive trouble, huge reshoots signal major problems on set! Red flag shouldn't mean the world is ending. I don't eliminate a candidate from a job because they had, let's say, a lapse in jobs. It's, hey maybe I should look into this a bit. It's a red flag. There might be a completely good reason. At the same time, it could very well be a problem.

 

[Disney Irish]

Welllllll, that is exactly what you're saying. All I've said is huge massive reshoots and delays are not normal and can be a red flag. You've said over and over it's a normal part of production. It's absolutely not.



___________________________________________

Point to me where I said that a studio budgets for massive reshoots. Because I did not, and none of those posts you quoted say that. You're reading too much into what I've said and trying to find some "gotcha" moment. What I've been saying is that for me personally I don't find red flags in reshoots, no matter how much is done. I've never claimed, and I don't believe anyone ever claimed, that a studio budgets for a majority of the film to be reshot.

That's fine, but not in anyway related to what I was saying. I agree 100% that reshoots happen and they're part of the process, we've established that. But referencing the pandemic as a reason there's long delays, while it did happen, you know that isn't what I was talking about.

That might not have been what you were talking about, but I'm providing an alternative reason on why delays happen especially the last 4 years. You seem not to want to accept that other reasons for delays can happen, and its only reshoots that cause major delays. More on this in the next point.

100% I am, that's the point. A movie completed in 2021, not released for 3 and half years or more, is a red flag. And the, it's only 2 weeks of reshoots, actually reinforces red flag. That doesn't mean I'm going to rail on it that it's going to be a giant bomb.

So you can't think of any other legitimate reason, none at all, on why this release could have been delayed besides major reshoots?

Sure it can be, but it's a normal thing. I'm also not saying it's a positive thing. It's just a, hey there could be something there. I think the problem is, like a lot of people here, they look at everything through the lense of axe to grind YouTubers. I've seen many headlines that say, X film is in massive trouble, huge reshoots signal major problems on set! Red flag shouldn't mean the world is ending. I don't eliminate a candidate from a job because they had, let's say, a lapse in jobs. It's, hey maybe I should look into this a bit. It's a red flag. There might be a completely good reason. At the same time, it could very well be a problem.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

 

[erasure fan1]

Point to me where I said that a studio budgets for massive reshoots. Because I did not, and none of those posts you quoted say that. You're reading too much into what I've said and trying to find some "gotcha" moment.

Because those are your direct responses to me saying it's not normal for those type of reshoots and studios don't plan for it. My whole argument was reshoots of that significance are not what a company plans and it can be red flag. I'm not reading into anything, you said it, I quoted it. You have directly opposed what I've said. So if I say studios don't plan for that, and you say, I don't believe that's the case. That would indicate that you think they do.

That might not have been what you were talking about, but I'm providing an alternative reason on why delays happen especially the last 4 years. You seem not to want to accept that other reasons for delays can happen, and its only reshoots that cause major delays. More on this in the next point.

My question would be why the heck are you providing that? That's never been the argument and does nothing to support your argument about my statement. I did accept that those were all possible delay. They just don't relate to the situation we were discussing. Here are the points I've made

*Reshoots happen, it's very normal.
*Extensive reshoots, not normal, possible red flag.
*No company plans on extensive reshoots, that's not a thing.
*Things outside a studios control, like a global pandemic, aren't red flags

So you can't think of any other legitimate reason, none at all, on why this release could have been delayed besides major reshoots?

Yes, again I could think of a thousand. As you said, reshoots are normal. But are they normal a year and a half or so after filming was completed? Not really. Again, it's not necessarily bad, but it is a question mark as they've given no good reason as to why.

 

[Disney Irish]

Because those are your direct responses to me saying it's not normal for those type of reshoots and studios don't plan for it. My whole argument was reshoots of that significance are not what a company plans and it can be red flag. I'm not reading into anything, you said it, I quoted it. You have directly opposed what I've said. So if I say studios don't plan for that, and you say, I don't believe that's the case. That would indicate that you think they do.

This is where you are reading into my posts something that isn't there.

I do not think any Studio budgets into a production major reshoots of an entire or even majority of a movie post production.

My question would be why the heck are you providing that? That's never been the argument and does nothing to support your argument about my statement. I did accept that those were all possible delay. They just don't relate to the situation we were discussing. Here are the points I've made

*Reshoots happen, it's very normal.
*Extensive reshoots, not normal, possible red flag.
*No company plans on extensive reshoots, that's not a thing.
*Things outside a studios control, like a global pandemic, aren't red flags

Because there are any number of reasons why a delay happened for Borderlands, none of which is caused by any production issues requiring major reshoots. As its a discussion forum I'm just providing some of those potential reasons.

Yes, again I could think of a thousand. As you said, reshoots are normal. But are they normal a year and a half or so after filming was completed? Not really. Again, it's not necessarily bad, but it is a question mark as they've given no good reason as to why.

Any why do they need to give a reason for the delay? All they need to provide is a release date on when you can see it.

Since we've gone round and round on this for a bit now, how about we just agree to disagree and move on. I don't see reshoots in any form as being a "red flag" you do. We just see it differently, there is no reason why we need to agree on it.

 

[erasure fan1]

This is where you are reading into my posts something that isn't there.

I do not think any Studio budgets into a production major reshoots of an entire or even majority of a movie post production.

Then you are disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me. Otherwise in the beginning when I say it's not normal.... and can be a red flag. You say that's true, I agree.

Since we've gone round and round on this for a bit now, how about we just agree to disagree and move on.

Agreed.

 

[Disney Irish]

Then you are disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing with me. Otherwise in the beginning when I say it's not normal.... and can be a red flag. You say that's true, I agree.

Not at all, but lets move on.

 

[easyrowrdw]

Neither Ross or Esposito is the main villain. The main villain is in the trailer. He speaks quite a lot.

Sam is the villain??!!!

 

[DCBaker]

A new trailer has been released for Captain America: Brave New World:



New poster:

 

[MarvelCharacterNerd]

This trailer just confused me. And I'm not the general public.

Sam's Cap and has a sidekick Falcon I only know because I watched the D+ show but the president doesn't like him and there's a Red Hulk that looks like 30 years younger Harrison Ford and the dude from Alias is in jail and Moff Gideon is there, too.

Mmkay.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

This trailer just confused me. And I'm not the general public.

Sam's Cap and has a sidekick Falcon I only know because I watched the D+ show but the president doesn't like him and there's a Red Hulk that looks like 30 years younger Harrison Ford and the dude from Alias is in jail and Moff Gideon is there, too.

Mmkay.

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one, I thought the first 2 minutes of the trailer looked amazing, the last 30 seconds were very confusing though. If I hadn’t watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier I don’t think I’d have known what was going on the first 2 minutes either though.

The trailer makes me want to see it on a big screen though so it hit its mark for me, it feels very action packed, big, and “Marvel”… those are things that all benefit from seeing it in a theater rather than waiting to watch it on my couch.

 

[LSLS]

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one, I thought the first 2 minutes of the trailer looked amazing, the last 30 seconds were very confusing though. If I hadn’t watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier I don’t think I’d have known what was going on the first 2 minutes either though.

The trailer makes me want to see it on a big screen though so it hit its mark for me, it feels very action packed, big, and “Marvel”… those are things that all benefit from seeing it in a theater rather than waiting to watch it on my couch.

Totally agree with everything here.

 

[erasure fan1]

the last 30 seconds were very confusing though. If I hadn’t watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier I don’t think I’d have known what was going on the first 2 minutes either though.

Yea that's been my big question mark for some of the movies. Will the normies jump in even when they might not know what's going on or the perception of not knowing what is going on? This could be an issue with thunderbolts as well. It will be interesting to see for sure.

The trailer makes me want to see it on a big screen though so it hit its mark for me, it feels very action packed, big, and “Marvel”…

That's the key. If the trailer resonates with the public, they should be fine. That's why I think the marketing push is so important. That opening week can/will make or break a film. And I think the trailer looks good. It looks fun and that's what the casual person wants. My only worry personally, is that the film is a mess narratively and structurally because of all the reworks they've done.

 

[Ghost93]

I’m glad I wasn’t the only one, I thought the first 2 minutes of the trailer looked amazing, the last 30 seconds were very confusing though. If I hadn’t watched Falcon and the Winter Soldier I don’t think I’d have known what was going on the first 2 minutes either though.

The trailer makes me want to see it on a big screen though so it hit its mark for me, it feels very action packed, big, and “Marvel”… those are things that all benefit from seeing it in a theater rather than waiting to watch it on my couch.

I really don't think Falcon and the Winter Soldier is required viewing for this movie. Sam was given Captain America's shield in Endgame. Falcon and the Winter Soldier gave him some more character development and elaborated on how he came to accept taking on the Captain America mantle, but I think someone could easily go into this without feeling like they need to watch his show.

This isn't like Multiverse of Madness, where viewers who skipped WandaVision would be completely confused as to why Wanda is a witch, why she has two children and why she's gone crazy.

 

[erasure fan1]

I really don't think Falcon and the Winter Soldier is required viewing for this movie. Sam was given Captain America's shield in Endgame

That's true. But I think perception could play a bigger role than some think. I know, it's not the end all be all but in my circles, there's a large segment of people that feel like marvel is homework now. If done right, it really won't matter. Like I said, if it's fun and entertaining, it should be fine. So hopefully they straightened out whatever the issues they had with it.

 

[Disney Irish]

So hopefully they straightened out whatever the issues they had with it.

Can you please let me know what "issues" you're talking about as I'm not aware of any actual issues?

 

[erasure fan1]

Can you please let me know what "issues" you're talking about as I'm not aware of any actual issues?

It's been pretty well reported that they've had issues. From Collider :

A 'Captain America: Brave New World' Star Has Seemingly Confirmed Even More Reshoots

Giancarlo Esposito has made comments that suggest he will be returning to Captain America: Brave New World for additional reshoots.

collider.com

I don't really feel like rehashing the red flags debate from a couple months ago. But you are, again, conflating issue with bad. They shot the film, obviously found "issues" then added a new character with, from what I've seen, was over 3 weeks of reshoots. Now I know your stance on reshoots and how they are not a red flag. But just for reference, you argued me me that borderlands had no red flags. And we all know how that turned out. for the record I was right on the money with that one.

Don't always read things as a negative. You said yourself, every film is scheduled for reshoots. I've said the same. But ask yourself why. Answer: because something didn't work. Or more commonly known as, an issue. If they fixed whatever didn't work, great, smooth sailing. That's what I was saying. I subscribe to where there's smoke, there's fire. But it doesn't mean I think the film is doomed. I'll wait until it opens to judge.

 

[Disney Irish]

It's been pretty well reported that they've had issues. From Collider :

A 'Captain America: Brave New World' Star Has Seemingly Confirmed Even More Reshoots

Giancarlo Esposito has made comments that suggest he will be returning to Captain America: Brave New World for additional reshoots.

collider.com

I don't really feel like rehashing the red flags debate from a couple months ago. But you are, again, conflating issue with bad. They shot the film, obviously found "issues" then added a new character with, from what I've seen, was over 3 weeks of reshoots. Now I know your stance on reshoots and how they are not a red flag. But just for reference, you argued me me that borderlands had no red flags. And we all know how that turned out. for the record I was right on the money with that one.

Don't always read things as a negative. You said yourself, every film is scheduled for reshoots. I've said the same. But ask yourself why. Answer: because something didn't work. Or more commonly known as, an issue. If they fixed whatever didn't work, great, smooth sailing. That's what I was saying. I subscribe to where there's smoke, there's fire. But it doesn't mean I think the film is doomed. I'll wait until it opens to judge.

I guess I don't see any of that as an "issue". An issue to me would be say if they fired someone and needed to reshoot due to recasting. But none of that happened here. Something didn't work as originally shot, and they reworked the story through reshoots. That to me is normal Hollywood, as very few movies get released as originally shot.

Anyways, we'll see how it turns out.

As for Borderlands, as I recall I said it could be bad I just didn't automatically subscribe to the "smoke there's fire" system that you do.

Also on the don't read as things automatically as negative, I'll say likewise.