Captain America 4

[DKampy]

And honestly who cares if they add more during reshoots, as long as it produces a good movie by release that is all that should matter.

I agree… every big budget blockbuster goes through reshoots these days

 

[DKampy]

That's true. They can be red flag for sure, but in no way is it death sentence for a film. All major films have time scheduled for them. I think people get worried when they see a film delayed a year or more. You can have major reshoots that end up like justice league. But you can also have reshoots that give us a rogue one.

Most IP blockbusters have reshoots dates schedule in the budget

 

[Casper Gutman]

Neither Ross or Esposito is the main villain. The main villain is in the trailer. He speaks quite a lot.

 

[Disney Irish]

Neither Ross or Esposito is the main villain. The main villain is in the trailer. He speaks quite a lot.

Not sure if I'd call The Leader the main villain, but rather something teased for down the line, but I guess we'll see.

 

[erasure fan1]

Most IP blockbusters have reshoots dates schedule in the budget

Yup, I said that in my post as well. The problem is when they delay a film by extremely large amounts. Unfortunately it becomes a convenient talking point for the YouTube community that has an axe to grind.

 

[LSLS]

The problem is that the internet has made "reshoots" out to be a bad thing. When reshoots have been part of the Hollywood process for many decades. Its a normal part of the process that was mostly ignored until a few films just bad press because of them. Now anytime anyone hears reshoots they use it as a way to bash a film before its even released.

It's the size and scope of reshoots that matters. If it's reshoots to change how some scenes look, change the end credits, etc., that's perfectly normal and fine. But if the reshoot is changing the main villain of the story, that is changing pretty much the entire film, and historically films that have THAT much change in a reshoot don't generally come out very well (again, there are plenty of exceptions to this). And I agree with eraser, it's a red flag, not a death sentence if it's that large a change.

 

[Casper Gutman]

It's the size and scope of reshoots that matters. If it's reshoots to change how some scenes look, change the end credits, etc., that's perfectly normal and fine. But if the reshoot is changing the main villain of the story, that is changing pretty much the entire film, and historically films that have THAT much change in a reshoot don't generally come out very well (again, there are plenty of exceptions to this). And I agree with eraser, it's a red flag, not a death sentence if it's that large a change.

The main villain is the same as it’s always been. The trailer confirms this.

This production did have particularly significant reshoots. We know why. Feige returned to a more directly involved role and ordered a retooling of every project in development, including this and Blade and the next Avengers. The production process for MCU films is very different from traditional blockbuster filmmaking and major reshoots are much less unusual, much less disruptive to the overall process, and much less of a red flag. Could the film still be a mess? Sure. But reshoots mean a lot less than they do on films like Borderlands that have more “traditional” production processes.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It's the size and scope of reshoots that matters. If it's reshoots to change how some scenes look, change the end credits, etc., that's perfectly normal and fine. But if the reshoot is changing the main villain of the story, that is changing pretty much the entire film, and historically films that have THAT much change in a reshoot don't generally come out very well (again, there are plenty of exceptions to this). And I agree with eraser, it's a red flag, not a death sentence if it's that large a change.

So much of this hand wringing about reshoots is rooted in bad faith arguments that storytelling and creative development are easy. It’s this vague nonsense of “just make a good movie”. There are definitely problems with allowing indecision in the creative process but a healthy creative process also allows change, especially when it is recognized that things are not working. It’s a contradiction to say you just want a good movie but also complain about the work done to try and make things better.

 

[Dead2009]

There Are Multiple Hulks In CAPTAIN AMERICA: BRAVE NEW WORLD According To Anthony Mackie

Anthony Mackie may have let a huge plot point leak in a SDCC interview for Captain America: Brave New World, as he confirmed that multiple Hulks will appear!

comicbookmovie.com

 

[LSLS]

So much of this hand wringing about reshoots is rooted in bad faith arguments that storytelling and creative development are easy. It’s this vague nonsense of “just make a good movie”. There are definitely problems with allowing indecision in the creative process but a healthy creative process also allows change, especially when it is recognized that things are not working. It’s a contradiction to say you just want a good movie but also complain about the work done to try and make things better.

Yeah, it's a weird line to work with. What is the percentage where reshoots are good to where reshoots become a major concern? I get the question being if you need to rework the majority of the film, can you really piecemeal it together to make something that works well and is cohesive. But what is a rework of the majority of a film? I could see a major change in villain falling into that, but as I said before, that's still no guarantee it's not done well and works together in the end.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying this film falls into the major reshoot category (or even comes close), just an interesting question to me. And I am not saying the main villain has been changed, I just can see that as a major rework. At any rate, I'm excited for this one, so we will see what happens.

 

[Disney Irish]

It's the size and scope of reshoots that matters. If it's reshoots to change how some scenes look, change the end credits, etc., that's perfectly normal and fine. But if the reshoot is changing the main villain of the story, that is changing pretty much the entire film, and historically films that have THAT much change in a reshoot don't generally come out very well (again, there are plenty of exceptions to this). And I agree with eraser, it's a red flag, not a death sentence if it's that large a change.

I don't think the size and scope really matters all the much in the long scheme of things. If when they finish principal shooting if the movie didn't test well, or if real world events cause a studio to request changes to a storyline, then reshoots occurs, from one scene to the entire film. At the end of the day as long as the end product is good, who cares how much was reshot. It doesn't diminish anything from the quality of work, in fact it should make it better.

 

[Disney Irish]

Yeah, it's a weird line to work with. What is the percentage where reshoots are good to where reshoots become a major concern? I get the question being if you need to rework the majority of the film, can you really piecemeal it together to make something that works well and is cohesive. But what is a rework of the majority of a film? I could see a major change in villain falling into that, but as I said before, that's still no guarantee it's not done well and works together in the end.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying this film falls into the major reshoot category (or even comes close), just an interesting question to me. And I am not saying the main villain has been changed, I just can see that as a major rework. At any rate, I'm excited for this one, so we will see what happens.

There is no hard and fast rule that says x percentage getting reshot should be of concern. For decades before the internet reshoots were a normal part of the process and no one in the public was any the wiser. Its only been in the last couple decades where movie productions are getting a closer look by the internet has it even become this "red flag" that has jaded a potential movies quality. As I've said a few times now, as long as the end product is good who cares how much of if was reshot. I don't care if its 1%, 5% or even 100%, as long as the end product is good that is all that matters.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Yeah, it's a weird line to work with. What is the percentage where reshoots are good to where reshoots become a major concern? I get the question being if you need to rework the majority of the film, can you really piecemeal it together to make something that works well and is cohesive. But what is a rework of the majority of a film? I could see a major change in villain falling into that, but as I said before, that's still no guarantee it's not done well and works together in the end.

For what it's worth, I'm not saying this film falls into the major reshoot category (or even comes close), just an interesting question to me. And I am not saying the main villain has been changed, I just can see that as a major rework. At any rate, I'm excited for this one, so we will see what happens.

I don’t think it’s something you can quantify. I think it’s more the why. Trying to quantify creative development is a fool’s errand because the examples of success contradict each other. Sometimes it’s the singular vision of the auteur that works and other times it’s an open, collaborative process that works. Sometimes the original idea works, sometimes it’s the 600th idea. Sometimes the notes from the executives really are what made things click. Sometimes the limited budget is an asset that makes the team creative and sometimes it just truly isn’t enough. None of it’s a guarantee. Sometimes a process produces gold and sometimes it produces a turd.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

People who have no real knowledge of how shows are made like to pass judgement.

I've seen a movie be criticized because it has six writers. Why do they need so many writers when many movies have just one or two? Ignoring the fact that TV shows typically have a writer's room with a ton of people sharing ideas.

Now we see a lot of condemnation of reshoots. Why is taking steps to improve a product a bad thing?

Rogue One famously had extensive retooling and is generally considered one of the best of the Disney Star Wars era.

 

[erasure fan1]

There is no hard and fast rule that says x percentage getting reshot should be of concern. For decades before the internet reshoots were a normal part of the process and no one in the public was any the wiser.

True, you just never really know. The problem comes down to visibility. People see so much more behind the scenes. Back in the day you didn't get a whole lot of information on a film and they never told you reshoots were happening. But I do think there are circumstances that shout, maybe there's an issue. I'd really say it's probably a 50/50 chance a film with major reshoots that delay a film 8, 9, 12+ months, comes out good or bad.

Its only been in the last couple decades where movie productions are getting a closer look by the internet has it even become this "red flag" that has jaded a potential movies quality.

Using the term red flag shouldn't be taken as a negative though. Rogue one was a major red flag. The trailer was released, then we find out they are reshooting 85% of the film. That's a red flag.

As I've said a few times now, as long as the end product is good who cares how much of if was reshot. I don't care if its 1%, 5% or even 100%, as long as the end product is good that is all that matters.

Totally agree. At the end of the day, if the film is good, none of it matters. If the film stinks, it's going to be a talking point.

 

[Disney Irish]

True, you just never really know. The problem comes down to visibility. People see so much more behind the scenes. Back in the day you didn't get a whole lot of information on a film and they never told you reshoots were happening. But I do think there are circumstances that shout, maybe there's an issue. I'd really say it's probably a 50/50 chance a film with major reshoots that delay a film 8, 9, 12+ months, comes out good or bad.

Using the term red flag shouldn't be taken as a negative though. Rogue one was a major red flag. The trailer was released, then we find out they are reshooting 85% of the film. That's a red flag.

Totally agree. At the end of the day, if the film is good, none of it matters. If the film stinks, it's going to be a talking point.

I just see it different, I don't call it a "red flag" in whatever connotation you want to use. To me its a normal part of production.

 

[erasure fan1]

I just see it different, I don't call it a "red flag" in whatever connotation you want to use. To me its a normal part of production.

I'll push back a bit. Reshoots are 100% part of the process. I don't think anyone can argue that. Reshoots like rogue one, solo, justice league, snow white, sonic the hedgehog, borderlands... Are totally not normal. So at that point, red flag is warranted in my opinion. Again not good, not bad, because it can still go either way.

 

[Disney Irish]

I'll push back a bit. Reshoots are 100% part of the process. I don't think anyone can argue that. Reshoots like rogue one, solo, justice league, snow white, sonic the hedgehog, borderlands... Are totally not normal. So at that point, red flag is warranted in my opinion. Again not good, not bad, because it can still go either way.

This is where again I say I see it differently. Because what is "normal" in Hollywood in terms of reshoots where every project is different? How many and what amount of reshoots is considered normal? Is there a specific numbers? Or is it arbitrary based on how someone is wanting to put a "red flag" on it as somehow is causing a bad product. This is the point.

You gave several examples like Sonic, I don't consider it a "red flag" that it had reshoots after the negative feedback from test screenings and the teaser to the how Sonic looked, etc. That to me is normal, as its taking feedback from test screenings and other sources and updating to make the product better.

 

[erasure fan1]

Because what is "normal" in Hollywood in terms of reshoots where every project is different? How many and what amount of reshoots is considered normal? Is there a specific numbers? Or is it arbitrary based on how someone is wanting to put a "red flag" on it as somehow is causing a bad product.

No there isn't a specific number. I'm not a betting guy, but I'd put good money on Disney or WB... were absolutely not happy spending that much on reshooting that much of the film. And it for sure wasn't in the original budget. No studios plans that extensive of reshoots. A couple few days maybe a week or so? Yea, absolutely.

As far as the bad product comment goes. As I said, people with an axe to grind will 100% create a narrative around it. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not wanting to put red flag on something just to say, see, it's going to be terrible! But I do look at as something to pay attention to.

Take borderlands, my most anticipated movie of the year. It was 2021 when it finished shooting. Yea, I'm throwing up the red flag. Something went south, and caused them to do major reshoots and delay the film years. I'll still be there opening day. And they might have found a better way and it's going to do justice to the games. But I highly doubt delaying the film 2yrs was anywhere in the playbook.

You gave several examples like Sonic, I don't consider it a "red flag" that it had reshoots after the negative feedback from test screenings and the teaser to the how Sonic looked, etc. That to me is normal

Really? I can't recall a film where they completely reworked the main character causing millions in cost because fans didn't like it. I'm sure it's probably happened, but even if you could name 3 more, it's still far from common. Sonic is a great example of what I'm talking about. That original trailer was absolute nightmare fuel. If not changed, the movie flops, I have no doubt. That original model was a humongous red flag, so much so they spent a lot of money to change it. It's just not a normal thing to happen.

 

[Disney Irish]

No there isn't a specific number. I'm not a betting guy, but I'd put good money on Disney or WB... were absolutely not happy spending that much on reshooting that much of the film. And it for sure wasn't in the original budget. No studios plans that extensive of reshoots. A couple few days maybe a week or so? Yea, absolutely.

As far as the bad product comment goes. As I said, people with an axe to grind will 100% create a narrative around it. But that's not what I'm talking about. I'm not wanting to put red flag on something just to say, see, it's going to be terrible! But I do look at as something to pay attention to.

Take borderlands, my most anticipated movie of the year. It was 2021 when it finished shooting. Yea, I'm throwing up the red flag. Something went south, and caused them to do major reshoots and delay the film years. I'll still be there opening day. And they might have found a better way and it's going to do justice to the games. But I highly doubt delaying the film 2yrs was anywhere in the playbook.

Movies get delayed for all sorts of reasons. Heck in the last 4 years we've had so many movies delayed because of a once in a lifetime pandemic and an almost once in a lifetime dual strike. So there was a great shuffle of the entire release schedule for all studios.

Your example of Borderlands falls into bucket of the great shuffle. Because as far as I'm aware it only had one round of a 2 week reshoots. There was no major reshoots. So there is no red flag there in my opinion, it just got caught up in Lionsgate's release schedule shuffle, not because the production was troubled.

Really? I can't recall a film where they completely reworked the main character causing millions in cost because fans didn't like it. I'm sure it's probably happened, but even if you could name 3 more, it's still far from common. Sonic is a great example of what I'm talking about. That original trailer was absolute nightmare fuel. If not changed, the movie flops, I have no doubt. That original model was a humongous red flag, so much so they spent a lot of money to change it. It's just not a normal thing to happen.

See to me its a red flag if they don't listen to the criticism and just go ahead with the movie as is. To me doing reshoots to correct things isn't a red flag, its part of the creative process. We just see it differently.