News Tron coaster coming to the Magic Kingdom

celluloid

Well-Known Member
If Universal had decided Hagrid's needed to be entirely enclosed the price tag would have approached Guardians level. And maybe some of that extra money for Guardians went to ensuring reliable operations. Hagrid's still does not operate at its intended capacity and likely never will.

In even keeled-ness, many rides don't. Guardians, even with a building a bigger price tag is falling flat on that for a while. Good thing Universal built two intimin coasters within five years vs a new major ride in a park every ten for DIsney.

And I don't know about enclosed coaster factor driving the price up that much. Don't forget how low in cost Forbidden Journey and Gringotts were created in comparison. Disney is just inflated.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
And I don't know about enclosed coaster factor driving the price up that much. Don't forget how low in cost Forbidden Journey and Gringotts were created in comparison. Disney is just inflated.
Universal’s costs have absolutely exploded. They couldn’t do a Hogsmead type land today for that little.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
That's ridiculous. It would have, by a large margin, been the most thrilling ride in a park that was too weighted towards Omnimover and boat rides.

Disney diehards have this dogmatic view that early Epcot was objectively the greatest park ever. Attendance figures in its early years suggest the general public didn't agree. A more balanced ride lineup probably would have helped.

Attendance in its early years was very high -- beyond that, what's your point? Early EPCOT was by far the greatest park ever built, but I've never seen anyone suggest that's objectively true. Nearly everything we discuss is subjective and it's a waste of time to point it out in every comment. Different people like different things -- there are plenty of people who think a park like Cedar Fair is better than any Disney park, because they are mainly interested in roller coasters. They're not objectively wrong to feel that way.

Guardians is nowhere near as impressive as World of Motion, Spaceship Earth, Journey into Imagination, Horizons, or the original Universe of Energy, not to mention the original Seabase Alpha version of the Living Seas. Therefore, it would not be a top 5 attraction at EPCOT in 1992. You're free to disagree, but you certainly can't tell me I'm wrong. It is, after all, subjective.

I don't even think it's close to being a top 10 attraction at WDW right now, but I find rides that rely mainly on thrill for entertainment value to be kind of boring.
 
Last edited:

FigmentFan82

Well-Known Member
Is there any indication that the light & power co gift shop refurb is going to be something grander than just a general refresh (in current Disney speak I'd also call it de-theming) or is there hope for something cool like the often mentioned Flynn's Arcade theme idea that always gets floated around?

I feel like lately TDO is either doing super underwhelming refurb/refreshes or random "wow that's way better than I thought it would be"
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
If Universal had decided Hagrid's needed to be entirely enclosed the price tag would have approached Guardians level. And maybe some of that extra money for Guardians went to ensuring reliable operations. Hagrid's still does not operate at its intended capacity and likely never will.

If money went towards ensuring reliable operations, it apparently wasn't well spent. The ride is having serious problems recently.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
The average guest doesn’t think about nor care how much anything cost to build.

They care about:

How long do I have to wait?

Is it a fun ride?

Was it worth the wait?

I know we are on a message board if diehards who do care, and that’s fine, but it feels like this conversation has been going in circles. We know the alleged cost.

Is the ride a success or not? Is it filling a niche at Epcot? Is it doing what it is meant to do?
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
The average guest doesn’t think about nor care how much anything cost to build.

They care about:

How long do I have to wait?

Is it a fun ride?

Was it worth the wait?

I know we are on a message board if diehards who do care, and that’s fine, but it feels like this conversation has been going in circles. We know the alleged cost.

Is the ride a success or not? Is it filling a niche at Epcot? Is it doing what it is meant to do?

But the average guest does think about vacation costs and what new things have opened since their last visit, and build cost impacts both of those things.
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
Is the ride a success or not? Is it filling a niche at Epcot? Is it doing what it is meant to do?

I think it's definitely a success, but I'm also not sure it's performing as well as Disney hoped and maybe not quite doing what they wanted it to do. It doesn't seem to be driving crowds from the other parks to EPCOT.
 
Last edited:

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Original Poster
I think it's definitely a success, but I also think it's not performing as well as Disney hoped and maybe not quite doing what they wanted it to do. It doesn't seem to be driving crowds from the other parks to EPCOT.
EPCOT is still largely an unattractive option for many, and I think a lot of people are happy to visit for a short period to do Cosmic Rewind, Soarin', Spaceship Earth, Test Track, Rat - and leave. I think it is especially a hard sell for single day tickets. I could imagine someone buying a single day ticket for MK and DHS, but EPCOT?
 

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
EPCOT is still largely an unattractive option for many, and I think a lot of people are happy to visit for a short period to do Cosmic Rewind, Soarin', Spaceship Earth, Test Track, Rat - and leave. I think it is especially a hard sell for single day tickets. I could imagine someone buying a single day ticket for MK and DHS, but EPCOT?

That definitely makes sense.

I get the impression that Disney management thought Guardians alone would be enough to drive crowds, though. Especially since they cancelled (or indefinitely postponed) most of the other changes/additions that were supposed to come, like Mary Poppins and the SSE overhaul. That plus the amount of money they spent on Guardians makes me think they had expectations that it would go a long way towards "fixing" EPCOT mostly by itself (along with Ratatouille, to be fair). That doesn't seem to be happening.
 
Last edited:

wdwmagic

Administrator
Moderator
Premium Member
Original Poster
That definitely makes sense.

I get the impression that Disney management thought Guardians alone would be enough to drive crowds, though. Especially since they cancelled (or indefinitely postponed) most of the other changes/additions that were supposed to come, like Mary Poppins and the SSE overhaul. That plus the amount of money they spent on Guardians makes me think they had expectations that it would go a long way towards "fixing" EPCOT by itself (along with Ratatouille, to be fair). That doesn't seem to be happening.
Maybe GoTG, Poppins, Spaceship Earth, Play! pavilion, Rat, and a popular new nighttime show all opening within a year would have done the job. But somewhat like the DHS relaunch, it fizzled out.
 

jaxonp

Well-Known Member
EPCOT is still largely an unattractive option for many, and I think a lot of people are happy to visit for a short period to do Cosmic Rewind, Soarin', Spaceship Earth, Test Track, Rat - and leave. I think it is especially a hard sell for single day tickets. I could imagine someone buying a single day ticket for MK and DHS, but EPCOT?
Lots of single day conference tickets are sold to Epcot. Lots.
 

gerarar

Premium Member
And maybe some of that extra money for Guardians went to ensuring reliable operations.
I would've agreed like a month ago when CR was performing amazingly, but CR has been really performing bad for the past couple days/weeks.

For the past two days, the ride performed operationally at its worst since it opened. Down 37% of the day yesterday, and 36% day before. The ride shut down yesterday around 6pm and never reopened.

And because of this, the afternoon 1pm drop has been filling quicker than the morning 7am drop, which is unheard of.

Reliability has sadly taken a turn for the worst with Guardians.
scatter_plot-70.png
 

Animaniac93-98

Well-Known Member
EPCOT is still largely an unattractive option for many, and I think a lot of people are happy to visit for a short period to do Cosmic Rewind, Soarin', Spaceship Earth, Test Track, Rat - and leave. I think it is especially a hard sell for single day tickets. I could imagine someone buying a single day ticket for MK and DHS, but EPCOT?

If Disney ended park hopping altogether, EPCOT's attendance would sink to record lows.

Not having the Dining Plan is also hurting the park IMO, because it had the most options to use those credits for dinner.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
Universal’s costs have absolutely exploded. They couldn’t do a Hogsmead type land today for that little.

You are mistaken into thinking about just inflation. Of course no major park could built Hogsmeade for what it was over 20 years ago compared to now.

My post was adjusting for inflation. Disney has been overinflated for a long time. We are not talking of just regular inflation.

And they did build Hogsmeade for relatively the same budget(regular inflation and research and development costs reduced) again in Hollywood, then Diagon Alley in Orlando and then Hogsmeade again in Bejing after they opened Hagrid's and Velocicoaster.

Disney's costs are just Disney-inflated wackynunu. The simple fact that Little Mermaid cost more than Forbidden Journey proves that alone.
 
Last edited:

celluloid

Well-Known Member
EPCOT is still largely an unattractive option for many, and I think a lot of people are happy to visit for a short period to do Cosmic Rewind, Soarin', Spaceship Earth, Test Track, Rat - and leave. I think it is especially a hard sell for single day tickets. I could imagine someone buying a single day ticket for MK and DHS, but EPCOT?

Exactly. There is a reason it is the only Disney stateside theme park to have constant food and concert events as well as an after 4pm pass for a long time. I am a Public Educator out in the middle of nowhere USA and when I hear of families going to Florida, they always cut out or mention they did not go to EPCOT.

It was funny, I took my in-laws to an evening at EPCOT a few years ago because of hopping, otherwise their their 4 days spent at the other parks would never have let them there and my father-in-law in the evening around World Showcase said "(This is what I pictured Downtown DIsney being like, lots of themed shopping and dining)

That says it all right there. Really well themed food and shopping for most of the park in most people's eyes with decaying so so in other spots and as you said, too little too late for some whizbangs to carry all of the weight.
 
Last edited:

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
You are mistaken into thinking about just inflation.

My post was adjusting for inflation. Disney has been overinflated for a long time. We are not talking of just regular inflation.

And they did build Hogsmeade for relatively the same budget again in Hollywood, then Diagon Alley in Orlando and then Hogsmeade again in Bejing after they opened Hagrid's and Velocicoaster.

Disney's costs are just Disney-inflated wackynunu. The simple fact that Little Mermaid cost more than Forbidden Journey proves that alone.
I wasn’t talking about regular inflation. Universal is not delivering projects on the small budgets they were a decade ago. Their costs have well exceeded inflation and are quickly catching up to Disney.
 

celluloid

Well-Known Member
I wasn’t talking about regular inflation. Universal is not delivering projects on the small budgets they were a decade ago. Their costs have well exceeded inflation and are quickly catching up to Disney.

Not true at all from everything I have ever seen. Could I see some numbers showing that? Now you are saying quickly catching up but that is vague and still not Disneywackynunu based on what numbers have been put out there. It is not the same.
 
Last edited:

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom