News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[Midwest Elitist]

Even Whoopi Goldberg has called for Song of the South to be released now. C'mon people, it's historical fiction! Let's not try to erase history and Black culture!

Eh, I think it's a bit insidious to say SotS is black culture.

HOWEVER, aside from the songs and characters, Splash is literally that.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Eh, I think it's a bit insidious to say SotS is black culture.

HOWEVER, aside from the songs and characters, Splash is literally that.

The stories SotS is based on are literally Black culture that were written down by a white man. It's not at all insidious to call it Black culture when that's the origin of the stories.

 

[WDWJoeG]

Adjusted for inflation, SOTS is far more successful than PATF

So is Bolt, so that's not a high hurdle to clear.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

The stories SotS is based on are literally Black culture that were written down by a white man. It's not at all insidious to call it Black culture when that's the origin of the stories.

I agree. It's the movie outside of those stories I'm referring to (and is also where the legitimate issues are).

 

[WDWJoeG]

I agree. It's the movie outside of those stories I'm referring to (and is also where the legitimate issues are).

Which isn't referenced in the ride and therefore hasn't been a source of "legitimate issues" for over 30 years.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Joel Chandler Harris’ Uncle Remus tales are not of black culture. American culture, sure. Black culture, no. He heard the stories and turned them into his own. Uncle Remus is a character created by Harris.

 

[montyz81]

It feels like it's been forever since the remake was announced. I understand wanting to keep the ride as is open throughout the 50th anniversary, but hopefully, they begin work on the retheme sometime in 2023. If they give it the budget it deserves it could be spectacular. My only worries are Bob Chapek going cheap on the retheme budget. In Magic Kingdom especially a retheme wouldn't be limited to just the ride itself, but also the surrounding area (right now it's in the middle of Frontierland, which is very out of place for a PatF attraction).

How about they just leave it alone! There is no problem with the ride the way it is. Period!

 

[Dear Prudence]

You also have to take into consideration that SOTS was the highest-grossing movie of 1946. The second was Notorious. Even if it was a financial failure, none of the movies released that year did very well. The economic boom hadn't happened yet. All of the music in both movies and musicals were all excessively happy or positive--about bright and beautiful days, because WWII had just ended and we had just m*rdered a bunch of Japanese civilians. So whilst Zip-a-dee-doo-dah might also have problematic origins, it falls into the same pattern that every other song of that time period. Musicals like OKLAHOMA!, CAROUSEL, ALLEGRO, STATE FAIR, ON THE TOWN, BRIGADOON, the top songs of 1946, Multiple things can be true at the same time, and historical context is important.

I am not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong. I am just saying that it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

 

[Ghost93]

You also have to take into consideration that SOTS was the highest-grossing movie of 1946. The second was Notorious. Even if it was a financial failure, none of the movies released that year did very well. The economic boom hadn't happened yet. All of the music in both movies and musicals were all excessively happy or positive--about bright and beautiful days, because WWII had just ended and we had just m*rdered a bunch of Japanese civilians. So whilst Zip-a-dee-doo-dah might also have problematic origins, it falls into the same pattern that every other song of that time period. Musicals like OKLAHOMA!, CAROUSEL, ALLEGRO, STATE FAIR, ON THE TOWN, BRIGADOON, the top songs of 1946, Multiple things can be true at the same time, and historical context is important.

I am not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong. I am just saying that it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

SOTS was the highest-grossing movie of 1946 only after multiple re-releases throughout the 20th century. It definitely was not in the top 10 box office the year it came out.

Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah is a great song, but its success wasn't necessarily due to the movie being popular. It quickly took on a life of its own outside of SotS.

 

[Midwest Elitist]

You also have to take into consideration that SOTS was the highest-grossing movie of 1946. The second was Notorious. Even if it was a financial failure, none of the movies released that year did very well. The economic boom hadn't happened yet. All of the music in both movies and musicals were all excessively happy or positive--about bright and beautiful days, because WWII had just ended and we had just m*rdered a bunch of Japanese civilians. So whilst Zip-a-dee-doo-dah might also have problematic origins, it falls into the same pattern that every other song of that time period. Musicals like OKLAHOMA!, CAROUSEL, ALLEGRO, STATE FAIR, ON THE TOWN, BRIGADOON, the top songs of 1946, Multiple things can be true at the same time, and historical context is important.

I am not saying it's good or bad, right or wrong. I am just saying that it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

i think Zip is more inspired by Camptown Racers (Doo dah!) Than Zip C***.

Even then though, I feel that Minelstry (sp) songs despite their origins, have just turned into classic songs. And of course, pop music succeeding it took some of those elements (took a history in pop music class at Uni).

But even then, I'm still skeptical of it being based on Minelstry at all. It's a nonsense Disney song.

I feel like some people think these guys were maniacally laughing and twirling their moustaches about hiding racism in their creations. I think reality is much more boring than that.

Though I disagree with a lot of things WDWPro says ideologically, I think he hits the nail on the head in his recent interview. The DEI board is out of control and finding NEW problems where there aren't any.

 

[Dear Prudence]

i think Zip is more inspired by Camptown Racers (Doo dah!) Than Zip C***.

Even then though, I feel that Minelstry (sp) songs despite their origins, have just turned into classic songs. And of course, pop music succeeding it took some of those elements (took a history in pop music class at Uni).

But even then, I'm still skeptical of it being based on Minelstry at all. It's a nonsense Disney song.

I feel like some people think these guys were maniacally laughing and twirling their moustaches about hiding racism in their creations. I think reality is much more boring than that.

Though I disagree with a lot of things WDWPro says ideologically, I think he hits the nail on the head in his recent interview. The DEI board is out of control and finding NEW problems where there aren't any.

I am.not saying it is or it isn't, but how ot fits into the pervasive 1946 landscape can't be ignored

 

[Incomudro]

I mean ... There's also the fact that it's in a land based around the American frontier while Robin Hood takes place in 12th century England.

Pocohantas would have been the better choice.
But Native American's aren't the people Disney is currently pandering to.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Pocohantas would have been the better choice.
But Native American's aren't the people Disney is currently pandering to.

Disney’s Pocahontas is definitely not the way to go if you want to “pander”. But knowing them and how clueless they are, they probably would take that approach.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Very interesting take on The Princess and the Frog from a black perspective, that acknowledges that while PoC may enjoy the movie and find meaning in its representation, this particular movie could have done a better job telling its story and give greater significance to its black characters. It's why I think Disney relying so heavily on this one movie to prove they support black inclusion in their media/products could hurt them in the long term. TPatF is already over 10 years old and we've seen how other media that was considered groundbreaking or good enough in the late 2000s may not hold up to scrutiny now or in the future.

Skip to 8:30 and watch for about 20 min:

 

[TikibirdLand]

SOTS was the highest-grossing movie of 1946 only after multiple re-releases throughout the 20th century. It definitely was not in the top 10 box office the year it came out.

Zip-A-Dee-Doo-Dah is a great song, but its success wasn't necessarily due to the movie being popular. It quickly took on a life of its own outside of SotS.

That doesn't seem to be the case. According to The Numbers, SotS was the top grossing movie of 1946 with $49M grossed when adjusted for inflation. That's twice as much as the second grossing movie, Notorious.

 

[Dear Prudence]

Disney’s Pocahontas is definitely not the way to go if you want to “pander”. But knowing them and how clueless they are, they probably would take that approach.

how to 1000000% make it certain that Native people would never go to your parks ever again 101

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

I mean ... There's also the fact that it's in a land based around the American frontier while Robin Hood takes place in 12th century England.

But the songs are country western? It was narrated by Roger Miller who was a famous country singer at the time, and the Country Bears are across the way...

Not advocating for Robin Hood in Splash instead of Tiana, but honestly the Magic Kingdom can be viewed more as a giant Fantasyland where characters interact in the environments. With Adventureland being expanded with Animal Kingdom, Tomorrowland and Liberty Square expanded at Epcot, Magic Kingdom can be more free with who shows up in what land (probably even moreso than OG disneyland)

 

[James Alucobond]

But the songs are country western? It was narrated by Roger Miller who was a famous country singer at the time, and the Country Bears are across the way...

Not advocating for Robin Hood in Splash instead of Tiana, but honestly the Magic Kingdom can be viewed more as a giant Fantasyland where characters interact in the environments. With Adventureland being expanded with Animal Kingdom, Tomorrowland and Liberty Square expanded at Epcot, Magic Kingdom can be more free with who shows up in what land (probably even moreso than OG disneyland)

It would still be a supremely weird choice when there are medieval tourney tents, like, steps away that make far more sense for the aesthetic and time period of the movie.

 

[Roger_the_pianist]

I know, I know. To suggest Robin Hood (for time and place) or Pochahontas (because of controversy) only strengthens how appropriate Tiana will be. Disney is not gonna walk back the PatF redo, just a matter of wheeeeeen it will walk forward...

 

[Ghost93]

Very interesting take on The Princess and the Frog from a black perspective, that acknowledges that while PoC may enjoy the movie and find meaning in its representation, this particular movie could have done a better job telling its story and give greater significance to its black characters. It's why I think Disney relying so heavily on this one movie to prove they support black inclusion in their media/products could hurt them in the long term. TPatF is already over 10 years old and we've seen how other media that was considered groundbreaking or good enough in the late 2000s may not hold up to scrutiny now or in the future.

Skip to 8:30 and watch for about 20 min:

This is probably why Disney is making the Tiana animated series. They know they screwed up big time by making Tiana a frog for 75% of her movie, so the TV series will remedy that somewhat. Disney will probably hope positive reception for the TV show will overshadow the mistakes made in 2009.

Also, the Tiana Disney Plus show is being helmed by Stephanie Meghie — a Black woman. With her direction, the show will likely be more authentic to Black culture. It will also alleviate a lot of the problems created by the original movie being the creative brainchild of white men — John Lasseter, Ron Clemments, John Musker, and Randy Newman. I like PatF, but it's clearly a movie that was too afraid to take any risks because all of the white people making it were walking on eggshells and afraid of being labeled racist. With a Black woman making the Tiana series, there will probably be a lot more trust and faith, and goodwill behind the project and a greater chance of taking bold storytelling risks.