Centauri Space Station
Well-Known Member
I’ve been on both and wasn’t impressed with DL’s
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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WorldExplorer
Well-Known Member
I haven't combed through this whole thread yet, so forgive me if I'm being redundant here; I'm super curious how this is going to go down AFTER the retheme.
It's generally agreed that the Br'ers and their fellow ride effects are not taken care of. Plus the ride system itself clearly has some issues since it's constantly going down.
So has Disney cornered themselves into being obligated to actually take care of the ride? Maybe even required to do some MAJOR maintenance so it works on a regular basis?
I mean, they should be taking care of all their rides anyway, but since they seem to be trying to make this in particular a big thing that means more, it'd probably make some people really mad if it deteriorates like Splash.
It's generally agreed that the Br'ers and their fellow ride effects are not taken care of. Plus the ride system itself clearly has some issues since it's constantly going down.
So has Disney cornered themselves into being obligated to actually take care of the ride? Maybe even required to do some MAJOR maintenance so it works on a regular basis?
I mean, they should be taking care of all their rides anyway, but since they seem to be trying to make this in particular a big thing that means more, it'd probably make some people really mad if it deteriorates like Splash.
Dear Prudence
Well-Known Member
The Brer figures are actually Gods in their traditional cultures, and they're allowed to rot, it doesn't bode well for Tiana, honestly.
Kirby86
Well-Known Member
It's going to be the same ride system. That isn't changing; this is a retheme, not a rebuild. As for taking better care of it probably for the first few years, but it's a water ride, they are a nightmare to maintain so they will do the bare minimum just like with the current theme. Because even when this wasn't going to get rethemed splash got rough with the show scenes.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
My guess is there will be a significant increase in screens/projection effects.
That doesn't mean they can't break but they won't require the same kind of maintenance that AAs require.
The ride will be much lesser for it, too, but that's a separate discussion.
I have and agree completely. The FL is also a better log flume, the CA one is janky as heck you scrape the bottom and sides of the chute all the time. Not to mention, the CA one gets you soaked because of the tidal waves that come over the side of the boat. I much prefer getting splashed to getting soaked, and log flumes should get the top half of you wet, while leaving your bottom more dry. It’s not a deal breaker but does knock it down a few pegs. Personally my top 5 log flumes are:
1. MK Splash
2. Dudley Do Right Ripsaw Falls (IOA)
3. Timber Mountain Log Flume (Knotts)
4. Paul Bunyan Log Flume (Mall of America)
5. DL Splash
Note, I don’t hate DL Splash, I just think the MK version is superior by a lot. I feel the same about DL PotC>MK PotC.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Disneyland's Splash Mountain has a minor advantage over Magic Kingdom in raw quantity of animatronics, few extra leftovers from America Sings. MK has around 60, and DL has about 70 (not including any simple figures with only one or two axes of motion). That said, not all of the DL figures are great to look at. Brer Rabbit and Fox in particular have very "off" looking designs at DL. The hopping rabbit is also missing from Disneyland. Overall, while Disneyland has slightly more figures, the main characters look noticeably better and more similar to their film counterparts at MK.
The scenery at MK is also much more intricately detailed and impressive (especially the rockwork). This is most noticeable in the first half of the ride before dropping into the Laughing Place. DL's takes place in a dark bayou, with much of the background detail kept dark so you don't see many of the walls. MK however uses the walls as a surface for brightly painted murals of distant farmland and sunny blue skies. There's also a nice amount of layered forced perspective sets at MK that are lacking at DL. Less bayou and more river through a vibrant countryside. Even the trees and foliage reflect this difference, DL uses weeping willows while MK's are more of the oak/maple/elm variety. MK's version of these scenes are not only a lot more detailed, but they match far better with the classic animated shorts from the movie.
Incidentally, the boats at MK float along more slowly too, letting you soak in the details better.
As i've said before, these differences also present a huge problem for MK's Princess and the Frog conversion. I suspect they intend to recycle a lot of the existing bayou scenery at DL. MK however will require a full gut and rebuild of the first half of the ride due to not sharing DL's scenery. Cloning scenes between the two will also be difficult given the different track layout and room dimensions.
The scenery at MK is also much more intricately detailed and impressive (especially the rockwork). This is most noticeable in the first half of the ride before dropping into the Laughing Place. DL's takes place in a dark bayou, with much of the background detail kept dark so you don't see many of the walls. MK however uses the walls as a surface for brightly painted murals of distant farmland and sunny blue skies. There's also a nice amount of layered forced perspective sets at MK that are lacking at DL. Less bayou and more river through a vibrant countryside. Even the trees and foliage reflect this difference, DL uses weeping willows while MK's are more of the oak/maple/elm variety. MK's version of these scenes are not only a lot more detailed, but they match far better with the classic animated shorts from the movie.
Incidentally, the boats at MK float along more slowly too, letting you soak in the details better.
As i've said before, these differences also present a huge problem for MK's Princess and the Frog conversion. I suspect they intend to recycle a lot of the existing bayou scenery at DL. MK however will require a full gut and rebuild of the first half of the ride due to not sharing DL's scenery. Cloning scenes between the two will also be difficult given the different track layout and room dimensions.
Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I may be the lone voice that supports you on this! I know the general wisdom is that the WDW version is better due to pacing and scale and I have a vague idea that was my original impression after the first time I went on that version in 1994 after having been on the DL version 2 years earlier. Over the past 20 years or so, though, I have been on both versions multiple times and much prefer the DL version. At DL, the attraction does just wrap itself around you more tightly and everything is just more so much more fresh and vibrant. Perhaps the fact that it moves along at a faster pace also helps because if an effect or figure doesn't work, you kind of float past too quickly to really notice! The darker lighting also seems more atmospheric to me, and the whole Critter Country area is a nice setting.
I think this lightness is a real disadvantage of the MK version, to be honest. You see every little imperfection and my impression is they have never really recalibrated the lighting over the years which has let it get too bright. I feel like you see things like the pipes from the fire sprinkler system running up the "sky" or maintenance scaffolding behind the sets at MK that you just don't see in the DL version. The background at points also looks like bright lights shining on a wall painted to look like a sky which I think, again, comes down to them not adjusting the lighting over the years to maintain show standards. That contributes to it feeling a little hokey.
The problem is, though, that so many of those details are "off" in one way or another due to lack of maintenance. So, you end up getting a good, long look at figures that move in a jerky fashion if they move at all.
Dear Prudence
Well-Known Member
I brought this up before, and everyone said "it's the same ride!!!" and that I was just acting in bad faith. I 100% believe the differences in the layout and designs in both DL and MK are what's slowing down the conversion. The drops in Splash are not just drops, they actually serve a narrative purpose. They have to navigate the renegotiation of two very separated designs.
Texas84
Well-Known Member
Sure, learn the basics. Hello, goodbye, thank you. But you can't learn enough in a short time. Very difficult language.
WorldExplorer
Well-Known Member
I know, that's why I don't think Disney has really thought this through. I mean, maybe I'm reading too much into it? They seem to want to make a big deal out of it being representation, but the ride is an upkeep nightmare and is going to continue to be, meanwhile they clearly don't want to sink money into it to combat that.
Making a big deal about how African Americans deserve their own, respectful media (no argument here) and then having the ride that was supposed to be that constantly break down and have it's effects in shambles isn't really going to give the message they want.
(Yeah, I know it's more about making a big show of things than actually doing any good. So long as they get big headlines when it opens they're happy.)
For the record, I'm totally going to look this stuff up. I had no idea there was so much interesting context around the stories.
That's true.
I hope there's at least one actual animatronic; just imagine the little shrub with a plate of beignets on top they could replace malfunctioning Tiana with.
Dear Prudence
Well-Known Member
Most people don't know anything about the oral literature, because they pervasive falsehood is that it's inherently racist, and people are running with it because that kind of clickbait sells, unfortunately.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I have to respectfully disagree. I’ve not seen anyone claim that that stories are inherently racist. The issue is with Song of the South, not the characters themselves.Most people don't know anything about the oral literature, because they pervasive falsehood is that it's inherently racist, and people are running with it because that kind of clickbait sells, unfortunately.
Dear Prudence
Well-Known Member
I've literally seen dozens of people claim the stories/oral literature are inherently racist, to my face in real life. Any mention of Brer Rabbit online and in person opens up an onslaught of non-BIPOC coming out of the woodwork to inform you that they are. It is an exhausting experience.
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I’m sorry you’ve experienced that. I suppose I was referring to the public discourse, which, as far as I’m aware, limits its criticisms to Disney’s (and sometimes Harris’s) treatment of the stories. I’ve yet to see anything in the media condemning the stories themselves.
Dear Prudence
Well-Known Member
I've even witnessed this on the forums themselves, with people misattributing the oral literature as being a Harris invention, and not with ancient origins. Honestly, the fact that the people whom this oral literature belongs to cannot even talk about it anymore without interruption is one of the saddest aspects of the whole thing.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
All of your criticisms aren't problems with the way the ride was designed, but are the fault of park management and apply to WDW as a whole. The ride is in bad condition right now. All aspects of it. The scenery, animatronics, sound, paint, lighting etc. And unless the PATF retheme is canned, it will likely remain that way for the rest of its days. But it's wrong to misdirect blame to the way the scenery is designed. Or to say the ride would be better off with less detail because you maybe wouldn't see as many problems. It reminds me of how Disney started painting previously light colored ceiling tiles black in hopes that it will hide all of the mold colonies infesting them that they refuse to clean and keep under control.
I was lucky to have experienced MK's Splash Mtn back when it first opened. It was also kept in good shape at least up until 1997 (which was the last time I rode it before 2010). Back then, the ride was receiving proper refurbs every couple years as well as overnight (or even daily) work to keep things maintained (as used to be standard practice for Disney). When I returned to WDW in 2010, the ride was in a disgusting state of disrepair and had clearly been in decline for a number of years prior. A lot of rides were suffering from similar issues, though Splash was the worst by far. And it kept getting worse and worse for the next couple years (there were even close calls of crumbling rockwork falling in guest areas that prompted netting to be installed over the queue) But it was given a thorough and very solid restoration in early 2013 that brought it back to a state that was at least recognizable to its 1992 form. It remained in decent condition for the next several years after, with more solid refurbs and even nightly work being done in between. But it has been in decline again for the past couple of years. As noted, the ride reopened from this year's refurb in as bad if not worse condition than when it closed. It is once again being run to failure, much like Disneyland during the Pressler years (arguably worse aside from thankfully no one getting killed yet due to safety issues).
WDW's Splash Mtn when maintained properly IS/WAS unquestionably the best version of the ride by far. All issues it has are caused by greed and lack of care. Corporate management have made the choice to allow the ride to rot and fail. That's an ongoing and ever growing problem that affects WDW as a whole, and it's a business philosophy that has been present for an extremely long time.
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Sir_Cliff
Well-Known Member
I don't necessarily disagree with you on the original design, but I do think the idea of MK having the better Splash Mountain has become largely theoretical. At least for me, the ride experience has been unquestionably better at DL for probably around 2 decades now. Apologies for brining up another attraction that has issues over racist representations, but an analogy would be Peter Pan's Flight: I have no idea whether the MK version was better or equal to the DL version when it opened, but there is no question that DL's version is better today due to the fact it has been maintained and upgraded over the years while MK's version has been left to stagnate.
The only other point I would make is that some of the things that were corrected in the MK version don't read as flaws when the DL attraction is taken on its own. As I mentioned, the quick pace doesn't make the attraction confusing to me, but gives it a certain energy. It also gives the attraction re-rideability so you can take in all the details. The lower lighting also makes it atmospheric and is more convincing at hiding basically everything you're not supposed to see. So, if I had to advise someone which of the US versions they should visit before the refurb, there is no question I would send them to Anaheim rather than Orlando.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Aside from the fluctuating quality of maintenance, all versions of Splash Mtn have remained fundamentally unchanged since they first opened. Their refurbishments have never noticeably altered any of the scenes, figures or effects. It's easy to compare the two versions because of their lack of alterations over the years. WDW's Splash opened several years after DL's and came with a slew of the aforementioned improvements to the scenery. And again, in proper condition it is the better version.
Peter Pan at WDW has never been updated in any substantial way. There have been a few minor changes to the lighting (switching a couple scenes from black lights to normal lighting in the past few years, which actually made it look worse) and nipple censorship of one of the mermaids decades ago. And like pretty much everything else at WDW right now, Pan has been in very poor condition for a long time now. Even so, underneath the grime it is still fundamentally the same virtually identical ride that opened in 1971.
Disneyland's Peter Pan however has undergone at least two different iterations. And a number of moderate alterations within those two as well. I believe even the original 1955 version was updated a few times with scenery and character changes. But 1983 was the big turning point in its life. They basically gutted it and built a new version from scratch. Entirely new scenes, characters, music etc. It reopened in an unrecognizable state from 1955. And it is far and away superior to WDW's. The music is superior and more varied (as are the voices), the Neverland model is surrounded by a dense field of fiber optic stars. All of the walls at WDW are just blank black curtains (making the scenes appear to be floating inside this dark void of nothing), whereas the walls at Disneyland are lined with beautiful hand painted murals. DL's Pan blows WDW's out of the water. DL's version also got a couple of new enhancements for the 60th with some digital mapping effects and some new figures in the Nursery.
I am comparing all of these attractions in their current iterations at peak possible physical condition. With the current condition of WDW as a whole, I would not recommend a visit to the resort at all. Though at the same time, I would also make the argument to enjoy it while you still can before Disney takes the hatchet to even more classics (even if they are in bad shape). That said, i've also heard from Disneyland goers that things are on the decline there as well. Remember that the same idiots at the top who are causing these management issues are in charge of both resorts. Only Tokyo is still currently managed to the high standards Disney once held. And thankfully, its owners reportedly told Disney to pound sand when pitched the PATF retheme. So that version of Splash Mtn should hopefully remain and probably won't be allowed to rot as the US versions were. Though even Tokyo's scenery still isn't quite as well done as WDW's.
Peter Pan at WDW has never been updated in any substantial way. There have been a few minor changes to the lighting (switching a couple scenes from black lights to normal lighting in the past few years, which actually made it look worse) and nipple censorship of one of the mermaids decades ago. And like pretty much everything else at WDW right now, Pan has been in very poor condition for a long time now. Even so, underneath the grime it is still fundamentally the same virtually identical ride that opened in 1971.
Disneyland's Peter Pan however has undergone at least two different iterations. And a number of moderate alterations within those two as well. I believe even the original 1955 version was updated a few times with scenery and character changes. But 1983 was the big turning point in its life. They basically gutted it and built a new version from scratch. Entirely new scenes, characters, music etc. It reopened in an unrecognizable state from 1955. And it is far and away superior to WDW's. The music is superior and more varied (as are the voices), the Neverland model is surrounded by a dense field of fiber optic stars. All of the walls at WDW are just blank black curtains (making the scenes appear to be floating inside this dark void of nothing), whereas the walls at Disneyland are lined with beautiful hand painted murals. DL's Pan blows WDW's out of the water. DL's version also got a couple of new enhancements for the 60th with some digital mapping effects and some new figures in the Nursery.
I am comparing all of these attractions in their current iterations at peak possible physical condition. With the current condition of WDW as a whole, I would not recommend a visit to the resort at all. Though at the same time, I would also make the argument to enjoy it while you still can before Disney takes the hatchet to even more classics (even if they are in bad shape). That said, i've also heard from Disneyland goers that things are on the decline there as well. Remember that the same idiots at the top who are causing these management issues are in charge of both resorts. Only Tokyo is still currently managed to the high standards Disney once held. And thankfully, its owners reportedly told Disney to pound sand when pitched the PATF retheme. So that version of Splash Mtn should hopefully remain and probably won't be allowed to rot as the US versions were. Though even Tokyo's scenery still isn't quite as well done as WDW's.
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brb1006
Well-Known Member
Love that small Marie figurine.
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