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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

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owlsandcoffee

Well-Known Member
I really like PatF, if I'm bein honest. Still not thrilled with it's placement in Frontierland. I can't really say anything about Splash itself cause I never rode it (fake fan, fake fan) but I get why people don't want it to be changed
 

Yert3

Well-Known Member
Regardless of how anyone feels about the attraction or the retheme or whatever, this state of an attraction in a Disney park looking like is is 10000% unacceptable, holy cats. This is PITIFUL. The fact that this is a lightening lane option is disgusting.
Still doesn’t look or sound near as bad as it did in 2012. It honestly looks okay, not great, but okay.
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
It feels like it's been forever since the remake was announced. I understand wanting to keep the ride as is open throughout the 50th anniversary, but hopefully, they begin work on the retheme sometime in 2023. If they give it the budget it deserves it could be spectacular. My only worries are Bob Chapek going cheap on the retheme budget. In Magic Kingdom especially a retheme wouldn't be limited to just the ride itself, but also the surrounding area (right now it's in the middle of Frontierland, which is very out of place for a PatF attraction).
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member

Still in horrible condition but hey, at least B'rer Bear got his carrots back

I think since they know the ride's days as is are limited, there is much less incentive to spend money to get it back up to top tier shape.

In fact, Disney may want the current version of the ride to look awful and broken so people think less fondly of it. That way, when they do the retheme, the new PatF Splash will seem SO MUCH BETTER in comparison to the worn down, broken, glitchy and neglected version of the current SOTS Splash.
 

WDWJoeG

Well-Known Member
I think since they know the ride's days as is are limited, there is much less incentive to spend money to get it back up to top tier shape.

In fact, Disney may want the current version of the ride to look awful and broken so people think less fondly of it. That way, when they do the retheme, the new PatF Splash will seem SO MUCH BETTER in comparison to the worn down, broken, glitchy and neglected version of the current SOTS Splash.
Does a single person actually think this "update" will be SO MUCH BETTER on any level? We know it will involve the removal of AA's, awkwardly ramming some lame "story" into the attraction, and removing some of the most beloved iconic elements of any Disney attraction in the world like "Zip A Dee Doo Dah".

But THANK GOD, we are addressing that enormous demand for more PATF in the parks! Now if we can also address all of that built-up demand for Rescuers Down Under while we're at it!
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member

Still in horrible condition but hey, at least B'rer Bear got his carrots back

Most of the ride looks much better than last time I rode, but the Laughing Place is deplorable. I get that AAs are complicated to fix, but there is no excuse for all those broken water effects on a water ride.
 

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
Does a single person actually think this "update" will be SO MUCH BETTER on any level? We know it will involve the removal of AA's, awkwardly ramming some lame "story" into the attraction, and removing some of the most beloved iconic elements of any Disney attraction in the world like "Zip A Dee Doo Dah".

But THANK GOD, we are addressing that enormous demand for more PATF in the parks! Now if we can also address all of that built-up demand for Rescuers Down Under while we're at it!
I think PatF is indeed underrepresented in the parks. Build a ride at DHS.
 

MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
Does a single person actually think this "update" will be SO MUCH BETTER on any level? We know it will involve the removal of AA's, awkwardly ramming some lame "story" into the attraction, and removing some of the most beloved iconic elements of any Disney attraction in the world like "Zip A Dee Doo Dah".

But THANK GOD, we are addressing that enormous demand for more PATF in the parks! Now if we can also address all of that built-up demand for Rescuers Down Under while we're at it!
Repeated in this thread for the umpteenth time:

The re-theme is not about getting more PatF in MK, it is about scrubbing SotS from the record. SotS goes away from Disney for a long time, if not forever. That leaves an attraction that needs a new overlay. Regardles of what that overlay is going to be or what one would like it to be, the SotS overlay will be removed.

Debate the merits of which at one's own peril regarding the forum's no-politics rule.
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
I think PatF is indeed underrepresented in the parks. Build a ride at DHS.
I tend to agree with the perspective that this is about replacing SotS more than PatF needing more representation in the parks.

If anything, that is one IP that is represented far beyond any demonstrable popularity with meet and greets and in the nighttime spectaculars. Coco, for example, continues to place in the top 20 streaming movies and still has a relatively minor presence in the parks and Encanto is almost entirely absent from WDW despite being Disney's hottest property right now.
 

WDWJoeG

Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with the perspective that this is about replacing SotS more than PatF needing more representation in the parks.

If anything, that is one IP that is represented far beyond any demonstrable popularity with meet and greets and in the nighttime spectaculars. Coco, for example, continues to place in the top 20 streaming movies and still has a relatively minor presence in the parks and Encanto is almost entirely absent from WDW despite being Disney's hottest property right now.
I mean, come on it was the 32nd biggest film of that year, it was HUGE!

Not as big as those other culturally resonating classics that came out that year such as "It's Complicated" or "Couples Retreat" of course, but HUGE!

And of course it didn't come close to that animated classic "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" that came out that same year, but oh yes, it was HUGE!!!

And it made less than half of "Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel" from that same year, but it was HUGE!!!

Now that Disney owns Fox, maybe we can convert Pirates or Mansion to Alvin and the Chipmunks seeing as it was over TWICE as big as PATF!

(Rationalization is fun!)
 
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Ghost93

Well-Known Member
Does a single person actually think this "update" will be SO MUCH BETTER on any level? We know it will involve the removal of AA's, awkwardly ramming some lame "story" into the attraction, and removing some of the most beloved iconic elements of any Disney attraction in the world like "Zip A Dee Doo Dah".

But THANK GOD, we are addressing that enormous demand for more PATF in the parks! Now if we can also address all of that built-up demand for Rescuers Down Under while we're at it!
My point is that even if the retheme is mediocre, Disney may let the original version fall into ruin so that no matter how cheap the retheme is, it looks amazing in comparison to the OG Splash Mountain.
 

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
I tend to agree with the perspective that this is about replacing SotS more than PatF needing more representation in the parks.

Is it really? Because if that were truly the case, they could easily close the ride for two months, remove the 5 characters that have anything to do with the film, and replace the soundtrack with anything else (public domain western songs, old American songs, Disney songs, etc). It’s not as if the 70 other animatronics or random caves have anything to do with SotS whatsoever (just as they wouldn’t have much to do with PatF if those characters were just plopped in). It’s mostly original.

I think they’ve looked at this as an opportunity to replace one of their least lucrative properties with one of their most lucrative (the Disney Princess Brand). So in a sense, it is about getting PatF in there. It would not take an exuberant amount of time and money to remove references to SotS from the ride, if that was the top concern.
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
Is it really? Because if that were truly the case, they could easily close the ride for two months, remove the 5 characters that have anything to do with the film, and replace the soundtrack with anything else (public domain western songs, old American songs, Disney songs, etc). It’s not as if the 70 other animatronics or random caves have anything to do with SotS whatsoever (just as they wouldn’t have much to do with PatF if those characters were just plopped in). It’s mostly original.

I think they’ve looked at this as an opportunity to replace one of their least lucrative properties with one of their most lucrative (the Disney Princess Brand). So in a sense, it is about getting PatF in there. It would not take an exuberant amount of time and money to remove references to SotS from the ride, if that was the top concern.
The cheapest option to retheme Splash Mountain would have been Disney's Robin Hood. The Robin hood characters have the same type of anthropomorphic look as the Song of the South and America Sings characters. All they need to do was get rid of the Brers, and add in Robin Hood, Maid Marian, Little John and a few of the other Robin Hood characters. The America sings animatronics would have blended in pretty easily with the Robin Hood characters. In the Disneyland version the rabbits singing "Burrow's Lament" could have been reskinned into the rabbit family that Robin Hood helps throughout the film.

Instead of Brer Fox throwing Brer Rabbit into the Briar Patch, the climax of the ride would be Robin Hood jumping into the river to escape the fire consuming Prince John's Castle. "Zip a Dee Doo Dah Zip a Dee Ay, my oh My What a Wonderful Day" at the end could easily be turned into "Ooh De Lally Ooh De Lally Golly what a Day!" Both songs use made-up words and are about having a good day! Robin Hood also evokes a similar feel to the animated segments of Song of the South.

Personally, I think Princess and the Frog is a better retheme than Robin Hood due to it being a more water-focused IP and due to it potentially feeling more "fresh", but I think a Robin Hood Splash Mountain would have worked pretty darn well.

I think Disney wanted to get rid of SotS AND have more Black representation in the parks and the PatF retheme allowed them to kill two birds with one stone.
 

James Alucobond

Well-Known Member
Personally, I think Princess and the Frog is a better retheme than Robin Hood due to it being a more water-focused IP and due to it potentially feeling more "fresh", but I think a Robin Hood Splash Mountain would have worked pretty darn well.
I mean ... There's also the fact that it's in a land based around the American frontier while Robin Hood takes place in 12th century England. 🤷‍♂️
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
I mean, come on it was the 32nd biggest film of that year, it was HUGE!

Not as big as those other culturally resonating classics that came out that year such as "It's Complicated" or "Couples Retreat" of course, but HUGE!

And of course it didn't come close to that animated classic "Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs" that came out that same year, but oh yes, it was HUGE!!!

And it made less than half of "Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel" from that same year, but it was HUGE!!!

Now that Disney owns Fox, maybe we can convert Pirates or Mansion to Alvin and the Chipmunks seeing as it was over TWICE as big as PATF!

(Rationalization is fun!)
Adjusted for inflation, SOTS is far more successful than PATF
 

Ghost93

Well-Known Member
Adjusted for inflation, SOTS is far more successful than PATF
SoTS was a bit of a box office disappointment in 1946. Its financial success was due to multiple re-releases. In 1946 it wasn't the embarrassing flop that movies like Fantasia were, but it fell below Disney's expectations, and the controversy and protests didn't help either. The stereotypes and romanticized plantation setting featured in the movie were commonplace in the 1930s, but by 1946, critics were already finding them to be outdated and offensive. The 1956 re-release was less controversial, but it also made less money. It sorta flew under the radar. The movie was not re-released in the 60s due to the tensions associated with the Civil rights movement. However, segments of the movie did air on TV, and the Brer characters had a large presence in Disney parks.

Song of the South's real popularity came in the 1970s. While the movie wasn't a critical or commercial hit in 1946, there was an entire generation of children who grew up with the Little Golden Books, record players, comic strips, toys and other associated Song of the South merchandise. Plus, Zip-A-Dee-Dooh Dah had become a Disney anthem. So when the movie was re-released in 1972, it saw a surge in popularity due to the adults who had a nostalgia for SotS and its associated merchandise when they were children. The 1972 re-release was the most profitable re-release of a Disney movie at that time. This release also didn't see much backlash, and the reviews were much more positive — due to a combination of nostalgia and a reevaluation of the film after the passing of Walt Disney. The 1972 re-release was so popular that Disney re-released Song of the South again in 1973 as a double feature with the Aristocats, in 1980 for the 100th anniversary of the Joel Chandler Harris Stories and in 1986 for the movie's 40th anniversary. There was mild criticism of the two 1980s re-releases from some Black writers, but because the 1980s was a pretty conservative decade the criticisms against the film were overshadowed by those who were fans of the film. The 80s were a very anti-PC time so a movie like SotS wasn't as offensive to the general public as it would be in a more PC era like the 90s. And as the movie got older, there was a growing revisionist narrative that the movie was just "of its time" and that no one really found it offensive in the 1940s.

I do wonder what the reputation of the movie would have been in the ensuing decades if Disney had simply released the film on VHS in 1987 after it's final theatrical release and kept it available for home viewing afterward. On one hand, more people would have been aware of Splash Mountains ties to a movie with racist stereotypes. ON the other hand, the availability of Song of the South might have made it a less notorious and controversial film. It may have actually become more "forgotten" as it would have no longer been this mysterious object of obsession by both fans and foes of the film. I believe if SotS had a VHS and DVD release it would have ended up like Swiss Family Robinson, Davy Crockett and Pollyanna — a movie fondly remembered by Baby Boomers and Gen X and largely ignored and unseen by millennials and Gen Z.
 

Disgruntled Walt

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
SoTS was a bit of a box office disappointment in 1946. Its financial success was due to multiple re-releases. In 1946 it wasn't the embarrassing flop that movies like Fantasia were, but it fell below Disney's expectations, and the controversy and protests didn't help either. The stereotypes and romanticized plantation setting featured in the movie were commonplace in the 1930s, but by 1946, critics were already finding them to be outdated and offensive. The 1956 re-release was less controversial, but it also made less money. It sorta flew under the radar. The movie was not re-released in the 60s due to the tensions associated with the Civil rights movement. However, segments of the movie did air on TV, and the Brer characters had a large presence in Disney parks.

Song of the South's real popularity came in the 1970s. While the movie wasn't a critical or commercial hit in 1946, there was an entire generation of children who grew up with the Little Golden Books, record players, comic strips, toys and other associated Song of the South merchandise. Plus, Zip-A-Dee-Dooh Dah had become a Disney anthem. So when the movie was re-released in 1972, it saw a surge in popularity due to the adults who had a nostalgia for SotS and its associated merchandise when they were children. The 1972 re-release was the most profitable re-release of a Disney movie at that time. This release also didn't see much backlash, and the reviews were much more positive — due to a combination of nostalgia and a reevaluation of the film after the passing of Walt Disney. The 1972 re-release was so popular that Disney re-released Song of the South again in 1973 as a double feature with the Aristocats, in 1980 for the 100th anniversary of the Joel Chandler Harris Stories and in 1986 for the movie's 40th anniversary. There was mild criticism of the two 1980s re-releases from some Black writers, but because the 1980s was a pretty conservative decade the criticisms against the film were overshadowed by those who were fans of the film. The 80s were a very anti-PC time so a movie like SotS wasn't as offensive to the general public as it would be in a more PC era like the 90s. And as the movie got older, there was a growing revisionist narrative that the movie was just "of its time" and that no one really found it offensive in the 1940s.

I do wonder what the reputation of the movie would have been in the ensuing decades if Disney had simply released the film on VHS in 1987 after it's final theatrical release and kept it available for home viewing afterward. On one hand, more people would have been aware of Splash Mountains ties to a movie with racist stereotypes. ON the other hand, the availability of Song of the South might have made it a less notorious and controversial film. It may have actually become more "forgotten" as it would have no longer been this mysterious object of obsession by both fans and foes of the film. I believe if SotS had a VHS and DVD release it would have ended up like Swiss Family Robinson, Davy Crockett and Pollyanna — a movie fondly remembered by Baby Boomers and Gen X and largely ignored and unseen by millennials and Gen Z.
Even Whoopi Goldberg has called for Song of the South to be released now. C'mon people, it's historical fiction! Let's not try to erase history and Black culture!
 
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