You're going to pay to ride.

Bluewaves

Bluewaves

Well-Known Member
pluto77 said:
Honestly, how are the Lightning Lanes at
Disney any different? If the other parks let people with express passes walk right on, as you say, then the people in the other line are “standing by” for them, are they not? Maybe they don’t have a name for it, but it’s really the same idea. It’s the line people go to when they can’t or don’t want to pay for an express pass and are willing to wait.

I admit that I haven’t been to Universal in awhile, and I haven’t used their express pass system, but I do see complaints online all the time about how people still have to wait 15-20 minutes in the express lane, and sometimes it’s not even any faster than the other line. Again, I don’t have first hand experience with that, but those complaints are coming from somewhere. And I know that Disney has the same issues sometimes, but I’m just pointing out how the lines are the same.

There are also parks, like Cedar Point, that have a high charge for Fast Lane, but it doesn’t include the most popular rides. You have to pay an even higher fee to get on those rides. These prices are sometimes triple or quadruple the admission price. So, one could argue that you are also paying per ride with that kind of system. Yes, the admission prices are lower, but is that a sneaky way of getting people in so they can gouge people on Fastlane in the park (along with food and merchandise)?

Saying something is “normal” is subjective, but, in the way we are using it, I still don’t see how Lightning Lanes are the “normal lines” at Disney, when there is a limit to how many they allow to be scheduled. We went over Thanksgiving week and never waited more than 5, maybe 10, minutes for. Lightning Lane. The majority of guests are still waiting in standby lines. You could argue you get less at Disney with the scheduling system, and I would agree, but it’s also not nearly as expensive. If they take away the limit, people aren’t going to see any benefit and will stop buying them. People are already figuring out that the current system is not worth it at certain parks and certain times. Anyway, a lot of people do just fine without Lightning Lanes, especially if they plan their day correctly.

I do think that it’s a flawed system. I’m not really defending how Genie+ is being implemented, but, the idea of paying to skip the “standby” line is the same as any other park that does it.
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Cedar Fair parks have a one price skip the line system, it’s super limited, the point is to make it a premium experience , LL and Genie plus are not premium experiences ,Genie plus is Disney trying to have its cake and eat it too, they should have just gone the Uni route, charged $100 for express, limit it to less than 10% of guests and then everyone else goes standby.

The original premise of fast passes was to get people free to shop and eat while they waited in line, but it devolved to cover attractions that had no business even having it, ones that would just normally suck up crowds all day long and keep things moving and get guests into queues so the park wouldn’t feel as crowded.

This is just a cash grab seeing how many morons will pay for what used to be free, the last 15 years got people stuck into I have to have every single moment planned out to the detriment of the park experience.

Not to mention the lack of capacity on new attractions, like they tiniest little boats you could possibly create for Navi boat ride thing or even smugglers run.

Genie plus is just a cash grab, I’d personally be ok with everyone in standby with a paid cut the line system for E tickets that’s really limited, they could probably charge $150 per pass , but there calculus right now is to get as much incremental income not matter how much it degrades the guest experience
 
NickMaio

NickMaio

Well-Known Member
Uni's system and Dis system are very different.
At Uni you pay more but you do not need to book anything you simply walk past everyone,wherever and whenever you want.
You don't need your phone strapped to your temple looking for bookings all bloody day.

So crazy........I want OFF MY PHONE ON VACATION.....NOT FORCED TO USE IT ALL DAY AND NIGHT.
 
Brer Oswald

Brer Oswald

Well-Known Member
I forgot to mention, the UI is terrible. You have to go through the “Tip Board” to select Lightning Lanes. It also defaults to Magic Kingdom, regardless of park reservation or what park you had set it last. Coupled with the weird update delay that the MDE app has, this caused a problem that nearly rendered the money spent on it a waste for one of the days.
 
mergatroid

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
NickMaio said:
Uni's system and Dis system are very different.
At Uni you pay more but you do not need to book anything you simply walk past everyone,wherever and whenever you want.
You don't need your phone strapped to your temple looking for bookings all bloody day.

So crazy........I want OFF MY PHONE ON VACATION.....NOT FORCED TO USE IT ALL DAY AND NIGHT.
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There's differences yes, however the original poster is dismissing Universals intentions by saying only those with $$$$ buy Express unlike at Disney where he implies everyone has to. He then goes on implying that Universal are helping people by allowing them to pay extra to ride what they've already paid for, but then vilifies Disney for charging people to ride what they've already paid for. The technicalities of how Express, Genie+ and LL work are slightly different, the motives behind them aren't. In both cases both companies are aiming to squeeze more money out of customers who have already paid to ride by charging extra to ride with a shorter wait.

However he gives a free pass to Universal on the grounds that only those with $$$$ do it, as though their intentions are only to help loyal customers have less time in the lines. That wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't then claiming that nasty Disney are charging extra and telling people they're doing it to help, when in fact he's just given Universal a free pass for doing the very same thing and justified it. He also compares Disney's 'Stand-by queues' to being the same concept of buying a stand-by ticket for a plane, other than the term stand-by there's no comparison. When you purchase a stand-by ticket for a flight, you do so on the understanding that you won't get on the flight if everyone with a normal ticket turns up, you only get on the flight if somebody fails to show up. If you will you purchase it knowing you'll either get a cheaper than usual flight, or not get on that flight at all and take that chance. When you join the stand-by line for the Haunted Mansion and it says 'Stand-by line 25 minutes', you know you'll get in that attraction in around 25 minutes. The scenario isn't that 15 minutes into the stand-by queue you're going to be told "Sorry folks but we've just sold a load of Genie+ tickets for this ride which means you can't get on it today, sorry about that and have a great day". A stand-by ticket for a plane and a stand-by ticket for Disney isn't a fair comparison.

Fair enough point about Disney's Genie+ and LL meaning you have to use your phone and plan as opposed to Express at Universal, however on this thread I don't really see people saying any different. When comparing Express, Genie+ and LL we're doing so from the perspective of the original poster where he goes into great detail about there being no 'normal lines' at Disney (there are) and almost everyone being able to use 'normal lines' at Universal (whilst not criticising Universal for giving people the opportunity to skip them but criticising Disney for doing the same).

Again I go back to Halloween Horror Nights at Universal where they charge a huge proportion of the ticket price to upgrade to Express Pass, after already charging you to enter the park under the understanding that entering the houses is part of the admission price. Again it's the customer's choice whether to upgrade or not, however it's pretty common knowledge that unless you plan ahead, arrive when it opens and stay all night it's virtually impossible to see all 10 houses without Express or a multiple night ticket. They even try to get you to upgrade your ticket to Express by telling you that you probably won't get to see all the houses unless you do so when you collect your ticket. I can assure you that conversation has been had on several occasions when we've collected our ticket with the staff trying to get us to upgrade. Using the OP's logic though, Universal are undoubtedly doing me a favour by asking me for more money to see what I've already paid for and the fact they're almost doubling the fee is just coincidental and in no way done to merely get more money from me. Perhaps I should have thanked them for trying to help me see everything with the extra cost being fully justified and not something even worth discussing. But when Disney does similar for some reason it's going to be judged completely differently and by God they're going to hear about it.

For what it's worth I hate what Disney have done with Genie+ and won't be using it when we come for 14 days in March (fingers crossed). I don't agree with paying more for what you've already paid for and my love for Disney doesn't blind me to that. My problem is with the inaccuracies of the post which started this thread where we're expected to give Universal a free pass and told of various comparisons which aren't fair comparisons.
 
mergatroid

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
Jrb1979 said:
There is a big difference in what Cedar Fair and Universal offers and what Disney offers. The biggest difference is that Cedar Fair and Universal limit how many can be bought. Doing that makes it so that those who buy will have short waits and are able to ride everything. I do defend the Express Pass cause I use it whenever I go to Universal. I will never buy Genie+ as I can't ride what I want when I want.
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Fair enough and your choice. Disney also limit how many can be bought that's why you can't get Genie+ for all the rides you want. My response is more to the OP and the way he's selling Universal's Express as though it's there to help and criticising Disney for doing similar. The motives are the same and they're both asking you for more money to do what you've already paid to do, whether people buy it is up to them.
 
Jrb1979

Jrb1979

Well-Known Member
mergatroid said:
Fair enough and your choice. Disney also limit how many can be bought that's why you can't get Genie+ for all the rides you want. My response is more to the OP and the way he's selling Universal's Express as though it's there to help and criticising Disney for doing similar. The motives are the same and they're both asking you for more money to do what you've already paid to do, whether people buy it is up to them.
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The difference is you can keep buying Genie+ til the end of the day even if there is no availability. Where as Express Pass if I choose to buy it I will never be shut out of a ride. From the sounds of many here, most seem to hate paid skip the line systems.
 
Phil12

Phil12

Well-Known Member
Pardonmyfrench

Pardonmyfrench

New Member
I’m here now and have been since 12/27. If you want to wake up early and get to the park for the extra hour, you absolutely don’t need Genie+. The extra hour prior to park opening is definitely a perk. However my family doesn’t want to wake up and get to the park early so I’ve paid for Genie+ and it definitely made for a more enjoyable and less stressful day. As long as they keep the extra hours, you don’t need to pay (well you are already paying for the hotel stay).
 
Disstevefan1

Disstevefan1

Well-Known Member
Brad Bishop

Brad Bishop

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I'll try this one more time but if you're not getting it then you're not going to get it.

Disney, when they released Fastpass, the entire intent was for EVERYONE (or at least the vast majority) to use the Fastpass line.

Everyone would get to the parks, they'd release Fastpasses thoughout the day, you'd walk up and get your Fastpass, and then go find something to do for 90min (shop, dine, whatever).

The Standby line was for those who didn't know / didn't understand Fastpasses. You were LITERALLY standby.

They'd let people in at ≈10:1 ratio (Fastpass:Standby) because Fastpass was the normal line. It IS the normal line. Standby IS the standby line Iiterally printed above it).

FastPass wasn't a "skip the line" option. There was no "Skip the line" option. Fastpass WAS the line. Standby was "filler".

Now, start charging for this Fastpass lane: Fastpass IS still the line. Disney wants you to still use the FP line but, now, they want you to pay for it. The Standby line is even worse because those who just paid $$/head do not want to see someone who paid $0/head go in front of them.

____

Other parks:

The ExpressPass or whatever: This is their "skip the line". You have a normal line everyone gets into. This is the line the park EXPECTS everyone to get into (vs Disney where this is the Standby line and they EXPECT you to get into Fastpass). The park offers a "skip the line" service. Maybe it's "whenever" or maybe it's timed. Either way, it's a "skip the line" service and not the normal line.

_____

You could argue that: Well, if everyone gets into the Standby line then doesn't that make the Lightning Lane line, effectively, a "skip the line" service. Yes. You're right. What I'm saying is that is NOT how Disney is looking at it. They have a long history of the FP line being THE line. Charging for the FP line is them moving to pay-to-ride.

My further argument is that either by their own manipulation OR by the public getting it into their head that they just have to pay for rides at Disney (which isn't today but I could see this emerging across 10 years), you're going to be paying to ride at Disney (with the option to wait 2-3 hours if you like, in Standby).

Basically, I could see COVID going away and the park crowds returning to normal and people, who are used to FP being super convenient (well, before FP+), thinking, "I don't want to wait 90min for Space Mountain. I'll just pay the $5 (or whatever)." With that, the Standby line just got longer which would encourage more people to say, "You know what? I don't want to wait 95min for Space Mountain... I'll just pay the $5."... Until that eventually flows into the normal, "Yeah - you just pay the $5 and return when it tells you - kind of like the old FP lines but WAY better than waiting 2-3 hours." <<< THAT'S where this is headed.

Why won't this happen in Universal or Six Flags? Because people aren't used to the normal line being the FP (virtual) line. They just see the normal line as the normal line and if it's 90min they'll make a decision to either wait or skip. MAYBE if they have a bunch of money floating around in their pockets they'll pay to skip the lines but the normal course of action at these parks is: The normal line is the normal line.. I'll just come back later. (and that's how the park operators see it, too <- which, I think, is a huge difference as it changes the motivations)
 
T

totodog

Member
I think your point of the old FastPass was the 'normal' line is pretty much spot on. It was all more for line management than anything else. It was available to everyone and it just reserved your spot in line. And in it's infancy it worked well when you had to physically go to the ride to get your ticket, the minute they made it a ride reservation system you could practically do from anywhere, it made it much more frustrating for the day guests. Especially when you couldn't reserve because they were all used even being 30 days out. Line Reservations is pretty much what the Virtual Boarding groups were for ROTR and exactly what the virtual queue is for Uni's Hagrid's and the entire park of Volcano Bay. Those are free to everyone, you didn't pay more and basically it's just for line management.

And while I'll agree the Genie + and the Express Pass at Universal are money grabs and you are paying for the skipping the line, the way Universal handles them (to me) are much better. I can spend (at present) to buy a $79 Express pass gets me a one time through on all rides that it is available for. I'm guessing try to do that for Genie + it's going to be a bit more or maybe comparable. But the unlimited Express Pass for (at the moment $109), you can ride as many times as you'd like. Try riding ROTR unlimited times with Genie +. but in fairness to that, Universal's most popular rides (VelociCoaster & Hagrid's) aren't even on the Express Pass at all.

Also, using the Express Pass as an on site guest perk, makes it far superior than Genie + in my opinion. You can get a room for about roughly $400 a night. If you have a family of 4 that's basically buying an unlimited express pass that you get to use for 2 days straight and a deluxe room on top of that.

I consider the HHN Express a whole other animal in and of itself, really doesn't compare to normal express pass at all. That's because of all the things Universal has tried they are literally swamped for that event. First started with adding Houses, I wouldn't be surprised if they go to 11 or 12 this year. Then they've expanded the event adding a week of Sept. to the month of October up to now it's an actual 2 month Event. Lot's of People during a short window (7-2a.m. peak) and it's a ton of demand. So the Express Pass for HHN is really the norm anymore if you want to see everything in one visit. Of course their are other cheaper options for locals in that you can always use Frequent Fear to comeback as many times as you want and not buy an Express pass to see it all.
 
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mergatroid

mergatroid

Well-Known Member
Brad Bishop said:
I'll try this one more time but if you're not getting it then you're not going to get it.

Disney, when they released Fastpass, the entire intent was for EVERYONE (or at least the vast majority) to use the Fastpass line.

Everyone would get to the parks, they'd release Fastpasses thoughout the day, you'd walk up and get your Fastpass, and then go find something to do for 90min (shop, dine, whatever).

The Standby line was for those who didn't know / didn't understand Fastpasses. You were LITERALLY standby.

They'd let people in at ≈10:1 ratio (Fastpass:Standby) because Fastpass was the normal line. It IS the normal line. Standby IS the standby line Iiterally printed above it).

FastPass wasn't a "skip the line" option. There was no "Skip the line" option. Fastpass WAS the line. Standby was "filler".
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Except there was a limit to fastpasses. This insistence that Fastpass was 'normal' wasn't really as you describe as the average guest would use standby lines more than fastpass lines in between their fastpass reservation times. For instance the last version of fastpass would allow a maximum of 3 FP's to be held at any one time, to me this meant standby had to be used by many guests if they wanted to go on multiple rides in a single day. To insist standby lines weren't 'normal' is misleading.

On average in the MK I'd guess most guests would do no more than 3 FP's a day, those that did perhaps a maximum of 5 or 6? Do you believe they just shopped for the rest of the day or do you think perhaps they used standby lines instead? I don't know anyone who called Fastpass 'normal' despite your insistence of doing so.

Rather than play with words though, I'm sure Disney would like everyone to buy Genie+, why wouldn't they? However if that's your point then there's no need to over-complicate it by renaming every version of a queue or guess the reasons behind each one. Comparing standby tickets for planes where you may not get on to a standby ticket to Space Mountain where you absolutely will get on makes no sense. Insisting Fastpass was 'normal' when the number were limited and many used more 'standby' than 'Fastpass' makes little sense and just confuses things.
 
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Hcalvert

Hcalvert

Well-Known Member
Pardonmyfrench said:
I’m here now and have been since 12/27. If you want to wake up early and get to the park for the extra hour, you absolutely don’t need Genie+. The extra hour prior to park opening is definitely a perk. However my family doesn’t want to wake up and get to the park early so I’ve paid for Genie+ and it definitely made for a more enjoyable and less stressful day. As long as they keep the extra hours, you don’t need to pay (well you are already paying for the hotel stay).
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I agree with you on the extra hours. I was there from 12/18 until 12/27. I didn't purchase Genie+ and took advantage of the hour in the AM and the two nights that had extra hours for the deluxe guests. I rode everything I wanted to ride and still had time at the resort for a midday break.
 
D

DHSfanatic

Member
Rickcat96 said:
nope-Just finished a week Christmas stay-never needed it, never used it.
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This surprises me. We were at WDW Dec 20-30 and relied heavily on Genie+. With it, we never waited more than 20 mins and usually much less. The standby lines were typically at least an hour and often much longer for E and D ticket rides.

We’re a group that doesn’t hit the parks at opening so I doubt we would have been able to ride much without heavy use of Genie+.
 
D

DHSfanatic

Member
marni1971 said:
Bingo.

Anyone who pays for “lightning lane” is just feeding the rat.
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I guess so but it certainly makes it easier for the average person who doesn’t want to ride the E and D tickets only during early opening or extra hours. Relative to the total cost of a vacation it’s not a huge bite.

Not crazy about having to pay as opposed to the previous system but given it’s in place now, it’s tough not to use it. Also beats the boarding group approach.
 
D

DHSfanatic

Member
Pardonmyfrench said:
I’m here now and have been since 12/27. If you want to wake up early and get to the park for the extra hour, you absolutely don’t need Genie+. The extra hour prior to park opening is definitely a perk. However my family doesn’t want to wake up and get to the park early so I’ve paid for Genie+ and it definitely made for a more enjoyable and less stressful day. As long as they keep the extra hours, you don’t need to pay (well you are already paying for the hotel stay).
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Yeah, strong endorsement of the “more enjoyable and less stressful” point.
 

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