You're going to pay to ride.

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Disney pays property taxes to Reedy Creek. There was some tax breaks because it was “publicly funded” which is the reason they can’t charge for parking there now. Next time you park there you’ll notice it’s all RCID working in the garages. Definitely some ... interesting accounting there. Saying that, the whole concept of RCID and how it functions is incredibly interesting and would never be able to happen if they tried to today.

You mean a “special legislative act” that created a municipality out of thin air for two brothers with a big name company who informed Florida they were gonna create a metropolis out of thin air in their swamp??

 

[mergatroid]

Yeah, there's a psychological factor when it comes to "free parking." If you're charging $12 for parking everyone (in the Joker's voice) loses their minds. So let's say that he arithmetic mean of the car size that pulls into the garage is 3.0 people. They could equilibrate the prices so that the average amount that you would spend if $4 less per visit, but nobody would care. This is AMERICA, and we want FREE PARKING. For the average American, free parking might as well have been written in the Declaration of Independence.

Yet people hand over $25 a day for parking without seemingly losing their minds?

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

True, I also believe that it's a good reason that Disney have always followed RCID rules. They know it's like the Golden Ticket and they know other parks would give anything to approve their own planning permission etc. When they were building in Orlando they had a lot of leverage and that's why RCID was allowed and set up. To go back on their agreements would cause a lot of issues so even though RCID is a branch of Disney, to not follow what they instruct would hurt them deeply.

It was actually more academic than that…rcid and LBV were required by Disney before they agreed to build. It was non-negotiable.

blame Anaheim…the Disneys secured more autonomy over a public entity than any other company in American history. Wdw is as close to the Vatican as it gets.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Yet people hand over $25 a day for parking without seemingly losing their minds?

If they’re weak…as that proved…yes.

never doubt the “D”

So people right now can book a room for $700 a night at the poly…drive there…and pay an additional $25 a night to park their guzzler in the 1970 constructed, resurfaced lot.

…just “because”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m curious if anyone is interested in how much more parking fees will be gleaned since they cancelled the shuttle? I am…not huge but probably “significant”. Literally money for nothing.

 

[castlecake2.0]

You mean a “special legislative act” that created a municipality out of thin air for two brothers with a big name company who informed Florida they were gonna create a metropolis out of thin air in their swamp??

Correct

 

[UNCgolf]

You mean a “special legislative act” that created a municipality out of thin air for two brothers with a big name company who informed Florida they were gonna create a metropolis out of thin air in their swamp??

To be fair, they pretty much did. If Disney World wasn't there, Orlando would probably be about a quarter of its current size.

There's no other reason for it to be a large city. Every other decent sized metro area in Florida is on the coast unless you want to count Gainesville and Tallahassee, which host the state's flagship university and the state capital, respectively.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

To be fair, they pretty much did. If Disney World wasn't there, Orlando would probably be about a quarter of its current size.

There's no other reason for it to be a large city. Every other decent sized metro area in Florida is on the coast unless you want to count Gainesville and Tallahassee, which host the state's flagship university and are the state capital, respectively.

Totally agree…

the locals don’t want to hear it…but Orlando was mostly farms and had about 55,000 residents in the area prior to the presser

 

[Magicart87]

When I first saw this thread title I assumed the OP was talking about the Skyliner. I don't think Bob Co. would stoop that low but pretty sure paid restrooms were considered at one point. Wouldn't be far fetched to think they would monetize transportation. Heck, I'm surprised we don't swipe a card to ride the monorail.

 

[NickMaio]

There's differences yes, however the original poster is dismissing Universals intentions by saying only those with $$$$ buy Express unlike at Disney where he implies everyone has to. He then goes on implying that Universal are helping people by allowing them to pay extra to ride what they've already paid for, but then vilifies Disney for charging people to ride what they've already paid for. The technicalities of how Express, Genie+ and LL work are slightly different, the motives behind them aren't. In both cases both companies are aiming to squeeze more money out of customers who have already paid to ride by charging extra to ride with a shorter wait.

However he gives a free pass to Universal on the grounds that only those with $$$$ do it, as though their intentions are only to help loyal customers have less time in the lines. That wouldn't be so bad if he wasn't then claiming that nasty Disney are charging extra and telling people they're doing it to help, when in fact he's just given Universal a free pass for doing the very same thing and justified it. He also compares Disney's 'Stand-by queues' to being the same concept of buying a stand-by ticket for a plane, other than the term stand-by there's no comparison. When you purchase a stand-by ticket for a flight, you do so on the understanding that you won't get on the flight if everyone with a normal ticket turns up, you only get on the flight if somebody fails to show up. If you will you purchase it knowing you'll either get a cheaper than usual flight, or not get on that flight at all and take that chance. When you join the stand-by line for the Haunted Mansion and it says 'Stand-by line 25 minutes', you know you'll get in that attraction in around 25 minutes. The scenario isn't that 15 minutes into the stand-by queue you're going to be told "Sorry folks but we've just sold a load of Genie+ tickets for this ride which means you can't get on it today, sorry about that and have a great day". A stand-by ticket for a plane and a stand-by ticket for Disney isn't a fair comparison.

Fair enough point about Disney's Genie+ and LL meaning you have to use your phone and plan as opposed to Express at Universal, however on this thread I don't really see people saying any different. When comparing Express, Genie+ and LL we're doing so from the perspective of the original poster where he goes into great detail about there being no 'normal lines' at Disney (there are) and almost everyone being able to use 'normal lines' at Universal (whilst not criticising Universal for giving people the opportunity to skip them but criticising Disney for doing the same).

Again I go back to Halloween Horror Nights at Universal where they charge a huge proportion of the ticket price to upgrade to Express Pass, after already charging you to enter the park under the understanding that entering the houses is part of the admission price. Again it's the customer's choice whether to upgrade or not, however it's pretty common knowledge that unless you plan ahead, arrive when it opens and stay all night it's virtually impossible to see all 10 houses without Express or a multiple night ticket. They even try to get you to upgrade your ticket to Express by telling you that you probably won't get to see all the houses unless you do so when you collect your ticket. I can assure you that conversation has been had on several occasions when we've collected our ticket with the staff trying to get us to upgrade. Using the OP's logic though, Universal are undoubtedly doing me a favour by asking me for more money to see what I've already paid for and the fact they're almost doubling the fee is just coincidental and in no way done to merely get more money from me. Perhaps I should have thanked them for trying to help me see everything with the extra cost being fully justified and not something even worth discussing. But when Disney does similar for some reason it's going to be judged completely differently and by God they're going to hear about it.

For what it's worth I hate what Disney have done with Genie+ and won't be using it when we come for 14 days in March (fingers crossed). I don't agree with paying more for what you've already paid for and my love for Disney doesn't blind me to that. My problem is with the inaccuracies of the post which started this thread where we're expected to give Universal a free pass and told of various comparisons which aren't fair comparisons.

I was not giving Uni a free pass. Rather posting some differences between the two that some posters do not seem to be aware of.....I was not aiming my post at the OP?

Your post raises some great points.
Have fun on your trip. Safe travels.

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

Wouldn't Golden Oaks be considered as living on property? It's not huge, but they have some houses. Also couldn't some of the hotel/resort fees be considered as taxpayer revenue? Just thinking out loud.

The purchase agreements for homes in Golden Oaks states that the property is de-annexed from the RCID and therefore no longer a Disney property.

 

[Trackmaster]

Yet people hand over $25 a day for parking without seemingly losing their minds?

I don't know, to me paying for parking at parks is kind of a thing of a the past. I generally buy season passes for all of the parks that I go to, and they all come with parking or preferred parking. The only parks I don't get them for tend to be the smaller family owned parks that usually just have free parking.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't know, to me paying for parking at parks is kind of a thing of a the past. I generally buy season passes for all of the parks that I go to, and they all come with parking or preferred parking. The only parks I don't get them for tend to be the smaller family owned parks that usually just have free parking.

Disneyland has tinkered with charging for parking…with their “passes”…

 

[scottb411]

Totally agree…

the locals don’t want to hear it…but Orlando was mostly farms and had about 55,000 residents in the area prior to the presser

I am a local and all locals know that the city was built on Disney’s back. It would have grown to an extent with the space program and Lockheed but Disney has been the driver of growth.

To the larger conversation, I support paying more to skip the lines. For the last 10 years or so, I have heard from many visitors that are making their bucket list trips to Disney state that they would never go back to Disney because of the long lines. It has become a victim of its incredible success. This is a good solution for those visitors at the expense of frequent visitors that have been on the rides hundreds of times. Start planning your vacations for everything except the rides and you won’t be disappointed. Pay the $15 a few times a year to enjoy the rides when you need your fix. I will say that Disney has made a mistake by replacing rides and attractions instead of adding rides and now their most loyal fans are being alienated. Supply and demand will continue to lift Universal, SeaWorld, and Legoland’s boats in the long run that will be great for Orlando overall. Disney needs to add a 5th gate. Also, there is a lot more to Orlando to enjoy outside of Disney and the other theme parks now as well if you are open to it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I am a local and all locals know that the city was built on Disney’s back. It would have grown to an extent with the space program and Lockheed but Disney has been the driver of growth.

To the larger conversation, I support paying more to skip the lines. For the last 10 years or so, I have heard from many visitors that are making their bucket list trips to Disney state that they would never go back to Disney because of the long lines. It has become a victim of its incredible success. This is a good solution for those visitors at the expense of frequent visitors that have been on the rides hundreds of times. Start planning your vacations for everything except the rides and you won’t be disappointed. Pay the $15 a few times a year to enjoy the rides when you need your fix. I will say that Disney has made a mistake by replacing rides and attractions instead of adding rides and now their most loyal fans are being alienated. Supply and demand will continue to lift Universal, SeaWorld, and Legoland’s boats in the long run that will be great for Orlando overall. Disney needs to add a 5th gate. Also, there is a lot more to Orlando to enjoy outside of Disney and the other theme parks now as well if you are open to it.

Fair…I can agree with a lot of that.

though Disney will never add a 5th gate…the math didn’t really work for the 4th…they’d be competing against themselves.

their big recent mistake - and Iger was lauded during it - was adding basically nothing (net zero) in the crowd capacity/attractions department during his tenure…only timeshare blocks. His wdw legacy is older, underequipped parks that can’t handle more capacity and allowed real local completion for the first time.

 

[scottb411]

Fair…I can agree with a lot of that.

though Disney will never add a 5th gate…the math didn’t really work for the 4th…they’d be competing against themselves.

their big recent mistake - and Iger was lauded during it - was adding basically nothing (net zero) in the crowd capacity/attractions department during his tenure…only timeshare blocks. His wdw legacy is older, underequipped parks that can’t handle more capacity and allowed real local completion for the first time.

Once Epic Universe opens, I think Disney is going to have to respond and a 5th gate would do it. They certainly have the IP available to do it now. They could do a superhero park with Incredibles, Big Hero 6, Mandalorian, Bobba Fett, and all of the new Marvel characters for the shows and movies coming out over the next 10 years that don't fall under the Universal restrictions (ie. Moon Night, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Dr Strange, Black Panther). They could also do some attractions using National Geographic, Ice Age, a Muppetland, and a Zootopia clone. Include animation titles that don't already have a major part in the parks already: (ie. Carsland, Herbie, Pinocchio, Tangled, Aladdin, 101 Dalmatians, Jungle Book, Wreck-It Ralph). Add a villain land. Add a Broadway theater show for Mary Poppins or Sound of Music. I know there is a general dislike for IP in the parks on the forums but they need to just start adding rides and attractions to handle all of the capacity demands.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Once Epic Universe opens, I think Disney is going to have to respond and a 5th gate would do it. They certainly have the IP available to do it now. They could do a superhero park with Incredibles, Big Hero 6, Mandalorian, Bobba Fett, and all of the new Marvel characters for the shows and movies coming out over the next 10 years that don't fall under the Universal restrictions (ie. Moon Night, Shang-Chi, Eternals, Dr Strange, Black Panther). They could also do some attractions using National Geographic, Ice Age, a Muppetland, and a Zootopia clone. Include animation titles that don't already have a major part in the parks already: (ie. Carsland, Herbie, Pinocchio, Tangled, Aladdin, 101 Dalmatians, Jungle Book, Wreck-It Ralph). Add a villain land. Add a Broadway theater show for Mary Poppins or Sound of Music. I know there is a general dislike for IP in the parks on the forums but they need to just start adding rides and attractions to handle all of the capacity demands.

The average length of stay prior to dak was about 6 nights…when they opened that…it went to like 6.8

there’s a “wall” at 7 days…which they miscalculated. You can add 5, 6, 8 parks…that Number will hold.

they also will never staff them…nor would Wall Street allow it.

 

[scottb411]

The average length of stay prior to dak was about 6 nights…when they opened that…it went to like 6.8

there’s a “wall” at 7 days…which they miscalculated. You can add 5, 6, 8 parks…that Number will hold.

they also will never staff them…nor would Wall Street allow it.

This may be true for an individual family but there are now a lot more families visiting than 10-20 years ago. The fact that Disney isn’t selling AP’s right now shows that they are over-capacity. When all four parks are sold out during the holidays, Disney is sending those guests over to Universal that Wall Street is not happy about.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

This may be true for an individual family but there are now a lot more families visiting than 10-20 years ago. The fact that Disney isn’t selling AP’s right now shows that they are over-capacity. When all four parks are sold out during the holidays, Disney is sending those guests over to Universal that Wall Street is not happy about.

I think you’re backwards on what wall streets priorities are…but good discussions nonetheless

 

[Trackmaster]

I am a local and all locals know that the city was built on Disney’s back. It would have grown to an extent with the space program and Lockheed but Disney has been the driver of growth.

To the larger conversation, I support paying more to skip the lines. For the last 10 years or so, I have heard from many visitors that are making their bucket list trips to Disney state that they would never go back to Disney because of the long lines. It has become a victim of its incredible success. This is a good solution for those visitors at the expense of frequent visitors that have been on the rides hundreds of times. Start planning your vacations for everything except the rides and you won’t be disappointed. Pay the $15 a few times a year to enjoy the rides when you need your fix. I will say that Disney has made a mistake by replacing rides and attractions instead of adding rides and now their most loyal fans are being alienated. Supply and demand will continue to lift Universal, SeaWorld, and Legoland’s boats in the long run that will be great for Orlando overall. Disney needs to add a 5th gate. Also, there is a lot more to Orlando to enjoy outside of Disney and the other theme parks now as well if you are open to it.

I think that Disney has also been transitioning over to new high tech rides that are cutting edge and fun -- but the newer styles tend to sacrifice capacity and are technical nightmares. They just simply need to be getting back to omnimovers, boat rides, and the rides that just eat through tons of people and rarely go down. The throughput for Rise of the Resistance is just not where it needs to be for an attraction and IP of that magnitude.