WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The fact that they called attention to "price of parking" and the concession was no longer itemizing out Parking on your resort fees is in itself laughable as a "concession" from Disney.

I've also seen this figure several times:

"A Disney spreadsheet exposed in a hack of its internal Slack communication system this summer indicated that the Genie+ passes generated more than $724 million in pretax revenue between October 2021 and June 2024 at Walt Disney World alone. "

Is it just me or does that seem light? Depending on whether we're counting October of 2021 and June 2024 in the math, you've got 2 years, 8 months of data and they're "only" getting $272 million annually out of Lightning Lane? That's obviously not nothing, but as a guest dissatisfier that's not enough in my mind to make up for it. Again, this goes out to the a la carte approach under Chapek. If you spread out that $272 million across every guest that visited the parks in 2022 (47.06 per TEA), you're talking about $5.78 per guest.

They can get to those numbers the same way by increasing prices on tickets, lodging, parking, etc. This all points to one more thing in the "nickle and diming" approach that detracts from the value of a Disney trip.

The D'Amaro comment about needing to keep prices flat isn't a bad one, except I don't recall that they've ever done that. There are numerous pressure release valves that Disney can tap into without flat out reducing the price of tickets:

• More perks for Annual Passholders. Eliminate the park reservations, add back PhotoPass
• Increase various discounts, free dining, Buy 5, get 2 nights free, that sort of thing. Back in 2008, they were doing Buy 4, get 3 nights free.
• Bring back Magical Express. The article says "only 1/3rd of guests used it". The word "only" is a Disney word. You can re-write that sentence a few different ways depending on the story you want to tell. The fact of the matter is, rental cars are expensive, and if Disney builds in the Magical Express cost into their hotel, it would still be an overall decrease in vacation cost for the guest. If a family has $6K for a vacation, Disney wants to get as much of that $6K as possible. If that family doesn't have to rent a car, Disney has a better chance of getting a larger percentage.
• Simplify the line skipping program. A reversion back to a digitized version of the original Fastpass with no price point (at least for resort guests) would be a huge step in the right direction. Having experienced the ability to always hold 3 LLMP is nice, but practically speaking you really only need 2. You can go deeper into different scenarios on this, but the short answer is it needs to be simplified and it needs to be included either as part of your ticket or as part of your hotel reservation.

Lighting lane serves more than one purpose…

Obviously free cash is primary

But it Also give cover/excuse for them to not have to admit that Iger screwed their capacity up for the last 20 years

People can’t connect the dots…the reason why everything was easier/included years ago is because the natural growth in travel hadn’t overloaded what they had yet.

Bob let that happen…intentionally…so he could try to exploit it for more money.

But you can’t “flip the switch” and fix it when people get wise to it…as they have now

 

[Laketravis]

I know some try to convince themselves they can serve the upper crust…but it’s a ridiculous stance

Right. It's like McDonald's tripling the price of a Quarter Pounder and expecting the drive thru to be filled with Mercedes and Porsches.

 

[Chi84]

Same here. I travel a lot, and regardless of what I pay for a room I expect it to look the same every night I return as it did the first day I checked in. Using Covid as a springboard for every other day or less housekeeping was/is a crappy move.

Do you really think many people place so much importance on daily housekeeping? I get it has been curtailed but it’s not something I hear much about in terms of deciding where to stay.

 

[surfsupdon]

My

Do you really think many people place so much importance on daily housekeeping? I get it has been curtailed but it’s not something I hear much about in terms of deciding where to stay.

My friend group and family does. It is an expectation for the price point.

 

[Laketravis]

You seem pretty confident for someone who has been corrected on a few things in the last few pages.

Try being respectful to people. It makes for a better time.

Whoaaaa..... corrected on what? The errors have been yours, I believe. Let's see:

I said pretzels were $8.50 and they are.

I said housekeeping at Universal Dockside is daily, and it is.

I said the per night rate I paid was $85 and it was.

The only thing I raised some doubt on is whether or not WDW actually closes hotel buildings. And nobody has proof they don't - it only makes sense that if occupancy is 80% they won't scatter them around all building and may actually end up with an empty wing or building.

Lay off the pontification - it makes for more civil discussion.

 

[JD80]

Do you really think many people place so much importance on daily housekeeping? I get it has been curtailed but it’s not something I hear much about in terms of deciding where to stay.

Just as a single data point, but I refuse all housekeeping. I don't like strangers in my room. Just my personal opinion.

 

[Laketravis]

Do you really think many people place so much importance on daily housekeeping? I get it has been curtailed but it’s not something I hear much about in terms of deciding where to stay.

I do. And many of my travel friends feel the same way. A couple of years ago I took 200 band students to WDW along with 20 parent chaperones and band directors. There was overwhelming consensus that housekeeping should be daily and we pursuaded ASM to provide it even though that wasn't the policy.

I also know that some people don't care for it and will decline it but I believe many more expect it.

 

[Chi84]

I do. And many of my travel friends feel the same way. A couple of years ago I took 200 band students to WDW along with 20 parent chaperones and band directors. There was overwhelming consensus that housekeeping should be daily and we pursuaded ASM to provide it even though that wasn't the policy.

I also know that some people don't care for it and will decline it but I believe many more expect it.

Yes, in that particular situation I’m sure daily housekeeping was a necessity

 

[JD80]

Whoaaaa..... corrected on what? The errors have been yours, I believe. Let's see:

I said pretzels were $8.50 and they are.

I said housekeeping at Universal Dockside is daily, and it is.

I said the per night rate I paid was $85 and it was.

The only thing I raised some doubt on is whether or not WDW actually closes hotel buildings. And nobody has proof they don't - it only makes sense that if occupancy is 80% they won't scatter them around all building and may actually end up with an empty wing or building.

Lay off the pontification - it makes for more civil discussion.

Hotel occupancy hasn't been below 85% since 2011 I believe. It peaked in 2019 with 90% Notwithstanding COVID years.

 

[Laketravis]

Yes, in that particular situation I’m sure daily housekeeping was a necessity

LOL - four or five teenage boys or girls in a single room? You bet it was

 

[Laketravis]

Hotel occupancy hasn't been below 85% since 2011 I believe. It peaked in 2019 with 90% Notwithstanding COVID years.

I said IF - just pulling a number out of the air, as in - if it's less than 100% they will try to consolidate room assignments and may end up with an empty building, rather than scattering room assignments across all buildings of the resort.

Regardless, housekeeping staff levels are dynamic. Less rooms occupied is less housekeeping expense. More rooms occupied is more housekeeping expense but more revenue to compensate.

Blaming an overall 40% plus increase in operating expenses on housekeeping is ridiculous.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Do you really think many people place so much importance on daily housekeeping? I get it has been curtailed but it’s not something I hear much about in terms of deciding where to stay.

No

But when people feel like their being ripped off…the list snowballs in their heads

 

[Laketravis]

No

But when people feel like their being ripped off…the list snowballs in their heads

Reminds me of when hotels started prompting guests to reuse towels and only the towels left on the floor would be replaced - for the good of the environment, of course.

Certainly had nothing to do with substantially reducing laundry costs.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Reminds me of when hotels started prompting guests to reuse towels and only the towels left on the floor would be replaced - for the good of the environment, of course.

Certainly had nothing to do with substantially reducing laundry costs.

But at least that had a somewhat plausible/noble front…

When it’s “reduced” housekeeping…as Disney so eloquently put it…

It translates roughly to “we used to cover it…now we’ll just keep that portion of the fee and not give it”

Messaging matters

 

[Chi84]

Reminds me of when hotels started prompting guests to reuse towels and only the towels left on the floor would be replaced - for the good of the environment, of course.

Certainly had nothing to do with substantially reducing laundry costs.

This is starting to remind me of a Jim Gaffigan skit.

 

[surfsupdon]

But at least that had a somewhat plausible/noble front…

When it’s “reduced” housekeeping…as Disney so eloquently put it…

It translates roughly to “we used to cover it…now we’ll just keep that portion of the fee and not give it”

Messaging matters

I’ve been planning senior trips to WDW since 2009. I’m at a crossroad now because for the price, I don’t believe in the product any longer and it’s hard for me to encourage kids to go when it’s not nearly what it was.
Also remember that groups at Disney are not treated as Disney resort guests for benefits.
I want to stay in my position, bc I love it, but Disney is making it hard on me to stand behind the product I’m selling to kids/families that find this a great expense.

 

[Laketravis]

This is starting to remind me of a Jim Gaffigan skit.

From what little I've seen of him I thought he was funny. Much better performer than that joke of a half time show I sat thru tonight but that's entirely off topic.

 

[BrianLo]

International visitors to the USA typically stay longer and spend more money than domestic tourists.

In 2019 I think 20% of WDW visitors came from outside the USA, but I suspect they made up a higher % of overall spending.

It would be interesting to see how changes in international tourists have impacted Disney as well. Was Disney relying on them more before? Are there less of them now? Are they spending less too? (probably). Can Disney afford a noticeable decrease in them? Is that part of the reason why hotel occupancy is down?

The US dollar is also significantly harming Disney via international guests right now.

Disney would be better off it it fell nearly across the board. International parks would make relatively more, International box office would be worth more, D+ subscriptions would earn the parent company more, more Canadians would be willing to visit WDW. Etc etc.

 

[Chi84]

From what little I've seen of him I thought he was funny. Much better performer than that joke of a half time show I sat thru tonight but that's entirely off topic.

He had a skit about staying at Animal Kingdom Lodge and it went on to how spoiled we get in hotels. “Excuse me, there appears to be a towel on the bathroom floor. Could you send a maid or a manservant to pick it up?” (I know, I know, you’re paying for service. I still found the skit funny.)

 

[Laketravis]

Of course they are. It’s the internet.

More specifically, the WSJ.

You don't consider the WSJ credible? To be honest, I would think their readership demographics fall somewhere in those mid to upper tiers the entire article explains WDW is targeting, so for a majority of the 1200+ comments to be negative about WDW (and only WSJ subscribers can comment) is telling.