WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

Stripes

Premium Member
That is a comparison fallacy

It’s not a “battle” between Disney and universal

It’s that Disney is leaning on parks to supply 55% of their money to pay for everything they do…

And they are admitting they are losing or flat on customers in good economic times and using price increase only to keep the revenues up. Which means they will continue to lose more people and sell less volume of product.

Keep that up..4th dimension type stuff
The CFO has emphasized that he sees the consumer strengthening over the course of the year, indicating the consumer is not as strong as they could be. I don’t view the Comcast comparison as a fallacy considering the financial performance of one’s competitors is a key metric when evaluating one’s own performance. The company has projected a 6-8% increase in operating income for the Experiences business this year.

As you are aware, the financial condition of cable networks has deteriorated significantly as consumers have demonstrated a clear preference for the on-demand nature that streaming services provide. Migrating to this new, superior distribution method was sure to bring challenges and mistakes. Even still, throughout this upheaval, the company has the highest viewership market share of any company in the world.
At the expense of declining attendance and mounting bad press.
What company isn’t getting bad press? When did Disney get good press? LOL!
As far as Universal goes, let's compare notes in a few months.
Let’s get this straight, Disney’s attendance is basically flat domestically and increasing internationally. They have billions of dollars worth of projects in the works around the world, with 10 major attractions set to open within the next 4-5 years in the U.S. alone.

Meanwhile, their only direct competitor is losing attendance despite significantly decreasing prices to increase demand. While this may change sometime soon in Orlando, it’s important to note that USH is also losing attendance. Further, Comcast hasn’t added a single well-received attraction to their USF park in 10 years, which begs the question: will Epic cannibalize USF’s attendance, which is already one of the least attended due to an overabundance of motion simulators?
You don't consider the WSJ credible? To be honest, I would think their readership demographics fall somewhere in those mid to upper tiers the entire article explains WDW is targeting, so for a majority of the 1200+ comments to be negative about WDW (and only WSJ subscribers can comment) is telling.
I used to subscribe to the WSJ and I know what their comment sections are like. Now, I just get WSJ through my Apple News+ subscription, which means I’m not tempted to open their idiotic comment section. I could’ve told you well before you opened the comment section that it would be highly critical. I’m surprised that you are surprised.
 

DarkMetroid567

Well-Known Member
You don't consider the WSJ credible? To be honest, I would think their readership demographics fall somewhere in those mid to upper tiers the entire article explains WDW is targeting, so for a majority of the 1200+ comments to be negative about WDW (and only WSJ subscribers can comment) is telling.
It’s not like the WSJ is some niche publication. The WSJ comment section is only marginally better than the NYT’s, which means it’s still horrific lol
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
I used to subscribe to the WSJ and I know what their comment sections are like. Now, I just get WSJ through my Apple News+ subscription, which means I’m not tempted to open their idiotic comment section. I could’ve told you well before you opened the comment section that it would be highly critical. I’m surprised that you are surprised.

So anyone who doesn't agree with your rosy outlook is an idiot?

Serious question - at what price is WDW no longer attractive for you?
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I’ve been planning senior trips to WDW since 2009. I’m at a crossroad now because for the price, I don’t believe in the product any longer and it’s hard for me to encourage kids to go when it’s not nearly what it was.
Also remember that groups at Disney are not treated as Disney resort guests for benefits.
I want to stay in my position, bc I love it, but Disney is making it hard on me to stand behind the product I’m selling to kids/families that find this a great expense.
We steered one of ours towards a trip to France with an amazing itinerary instead of the obligatory senior trip to Orlando

I mean…not a 1:1 because she basically grew up 20% of her life there…but there really is no comparison as far as “value” now dollar for dollar
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
It’s not like the WSJ is some niche publication. The WSJ comment section is only marginally better than the NYT’s, which means it’s still horrific lol

My point is that only subscribers can comment on WSJ articles, and they are most likely in or near the demographic WDW is targeting per the article. So whether they are idiots or not (per another poster) they are the probably the ones with the money to afford it but are voicing their horrific opinions that it isn't worth it.

In other words, the prisoners are rioting.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Of course they are. It’s the internet.

More specifically, the WSJ.
Ever done any research on what the wsj pushes?…their editor in chief since day one has been Gordon Gecko
You don't consider the WSJ credible? To be honest, I would think their readership demographics fall somewhere in those mid to upper tiers the entire article explains WDW is targeting, so for a majority of the 1200+ comments to be negative about WDW (and only WSJ subscribers can comment) is telling.
Now comment sections are always toxic

But the press has been increasingly combative towards Disney in recent years….its tangible now

And the journal is amongst them. If anyone would support the delusional path to self destruction Iger has put them on…it’s WSJ

And yet…they really don’t
 
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BrianLo

Well-Known Member
At the expense of declining attendance and mounting bad press. Downward spirals are often first manifested outside of P&L's and balance sheets.

As far as Universal goes, let's compare notes in a few months.

Domestically, Comcast is in a very tough fiscal spot. Not only is there expectancy for Epic to justify its costs in its own right, it now also has to make up the spiral that resort has found itself in. There’s a reason Epic is locked behind endless free days at the two other resorts.

Disney has been very conveniently sweeping their problems under the DCL rug this whole time.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The CFO has emphasized that he sees the consumer strengthening over the course of the year, indicating the consumer is not as strong as they could be. I don’t view the Comcast comparison as a fallacy considering the financial performance of one’s competitors is a key metric when evaluating one’s own performance. The company has projected a 6-8% increase in operating income for the Experiences business this year.


First, the cfo is paid to spin and can say ANYTHING he wants

Please don’t be amongst these fools that think they can’t and don’t lie to you…

Second…you can compare them to Comcast all you want…That article and Len’s research has NOTHING to do with Comcast

It’s not “which is better: Disney vs universal”

And for the record: I’m not convinced opening a new park is gonna go gang busters either.

The concept here is that they have outpriced the reasonable rates for their market…and both have shown signs of that.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Domestically, Comcast is in a very tough fiscal spot. Not only is there expectancy for Epic to justify its costs in its own right, it now also has to make up the spiral that resort has found itself in. There’s a reason Epic is locked behind endless free days at the two other resorts.

Disney has been very conveniently sweeping their problems under the DCL rug this whole time.
Spiral?
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
Would you not say WDW is in a spiral? Because Comcast’s domestic parks are currently doing worse. Including USH.

I'm going to reserve judgment on USO for now. The last several times I've been there (a total of three weeks since December) it's been surprisingly busy. I don't see attendance faltering there near as much as I've noticed at WDW.

Epic could be a major fail, I don't know. From what I've seen it's another one and done day park anchored by a resort, and the current method of ticket sales I believe is cautionary so they don't overload it and generate bad press on debut.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Would you not say WDW is in a spiral? Because Comcast’s domestic parks are currently doing worse. Including USH.
I think Orlando is in a spiral because they have completely misread their model…lead by Disney

But yes Comcast is there too

But Comcast isn’t in the same business as Disney…they still are that awful cable company who reaps most of their money off high speed internet now…

And what does Disney depend on? Specifically in one overbaked, humid compound.

But I think it’s hard to argue that one compound has shown improvement since 2010…once has not

Unless you consider mothballing your rooms to convert them to timeshares in like 6 locations as “progress”

Ones just bigger…it’s not improving at a faster rate
 
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MisterPenguin

President of Animal Kingdom
Premium Member
I know. It was joke as some say Disney didn't have the money til now to invest in the parks due D+ not making money.
This is a massive mischaracterization of what was said.

The "some" who say this, namely me, point out Disney's cash crunch was just for the time frame of D+ and doubling down on streaming, which is just the past 5 years. This coincided with Epic Universe being built and people wondering why isn't Disney *responding.*

During this limited time frame, Disney (Iger and the BoD) very intentionally made streaming their number one priority. They said so quarter after quarter. Even a priority of over the parks. Even over WDW!!!

The income from linear TV (broadcast and cable) was a huge part of Disney's income. In the age of streaming, the writing was on the wall that this cash cow was going to starve. So, the company (which is more than WDW), prioritized switching to streaming that would eventually become profitable in five years. And they did it.

To have the best chance and product, TWDC pivoted from just D+ to full all-age children and family entertainment with Hulu and ESPN all eventually becoming part of one streaming service. This meant buying Fox for tens of billions of dollars (for the content and European infrastructure). And spending billions to buy Comcast out of Hulu, and for a world wide distribution infrastructure, and to pump out (way too much) content to compete with the other streamers.

Adding more rides to your favorite park was not their concern at this time. Also, they couldn't afford it.

That's why *now* that DTC is profitable, they're committing to $60B investment over 10 years and $17B to WDW.

This does not excuse the previous *decades* of underinvestment. Nor has anyone, including myself, made the case that the cash crunch of the past 5 years for streaming was the reason WDW didn't see proper investments over the past decades.

But, I think you knew that and decided to post that atrocious canard and straw man anyway.

Good day.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
It's cause they have priced those who actually like theme parks out for the most part. The whales of the world don't do theme parks. It's foolish to chase them.
The whales of the world will show…but they go everywhere else as well

The Disney repeating customer - which can best be summarized by the first 20 years of dvc - were the “sandwich” class between upper middle and lower upper that became content to make Disney parks their “home base” and travel to frequently

Those were the ones content to fill the restaurants and buy the stuff at huge returns…and they’re shedding that type now.

I wonder what @lentesta thinks about this?
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
I'm going to reserve judgment on USO for now. The last several times I've been there (a total of three weeks since December) it's been surprisingly busy. I don't see attendance faltering there near as much as I've noticed at WDW.

I thought we were well beyond attendance decline denialism on these parts? It’s not anecdotal when the company owns up to it.

I think Orlando is in a spiral because they have completely misread their model…lead by Disney

But yes Comcast is there too

That may be true, but it’s also hitting their California operations in a very asymmetric way. DLR seems to be humming along.

As much as WDW has faced price escalation, Universal has done so faster. Primarily to catch up. Being able to stay cheaply today on what’s blatantly off-site hotels near I-Drive because their new park isn’t open, notwithstanding.

They stopped playing the scrappy and cheaper younger brother a while ago.
 

Stripes

Premium Member
So anyone who doesn't agree with your rosy outlook is an idiot?
No, I simply stated that the WSJ’s comment section is consistently full of them.
Serious question - at what price is WDW no longer attractive for you?
WDW, for our family, has consistently been a very positive experience. The same cannot be said for any other vacation in the past 10 years.

With the value provided today, they could increase the prices 10-15% and I’d still consider it a good value. Anything significantly beyond that I would view alternatives as a better value.

We’re arriving on March 30th, by the way.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
That may be true, but it’s also hitting their California operations in a very asymmetric way. DLR seems to be humming along.

As much as WDW has faced price escalation, Universal has done so faster. Primarily to catch up. Being able to stay cheaply today on what’s blatantly off-site hotels near I-Drive because their new park isn’t open, notwithstanding.
Wait a minute…are you putting Disneyland and the universal in California on equal footing?

I assume you’ve been to them?
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member
I thought we were well beyond attendance decline denialism on these parts? It’s not anecdotal when the company owns up to it.

Uh, yeah. Right. I'm fully aware they've stated such several times and I'm not a member of the denial crowd. Take my comment in the proper context - both WDW and USO are potentially in trouble but that I've seen what I believe to be a recent increase in crowds at USO as opposed to the not-up-for-dispute decline across town.
 

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