WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[Jrb1979]

God love ‘em, they did.

Reading that quote tells they really don't understand their parks at all. They may like them but they haven't got a clue when it comes to operations or prices.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

Going to be honest, that $3000 sticker price isn’t particularly shocking to me. Inflation has inflated enough that my reaction is “yeah, whatever.” My trip to Universal for Epic this year is not going to be far off from that for just two people.

 

[JD80]

God love ‘em, they did.

Do you think they rounded up the cents or down? Was it $3,026.89 and they made the effort to cut out $0.89 to make it just that much lower?

 

[Stripes]

I wasn't asking about price increases, I was referring to cost increases. Specifically, you said WDW saw it's operating costs rise by over 40% and I asked:

"Why do you suppose that is? I know labor costs increased subtantially but I wouldn't think that's all of it and they have a pretty good handle on dynamic staffing to address that, especially with fewer customers to serve."

When prices are increasing across an entire industry and there’s not a notable change in scarcity, it points to a cost issue for the industry.

I do suspect wages are the biggest factor considering the ongoing labor shortage with especially with regard to housekeeping.

Also Disney’s minimum wage has gone up by 80% since 2018, far outpacing consumer inflation in the same time period.

 

[JD80]

I think the rest of this discussion is pointless until we figure out what the cheapest vacation, based on WDW internal numbers, actually entails. What is Disney saying we can get for $3,026?

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I think the rest of this discussion is pointless until we figure out what the cheapest vacation, based on WDW internal numbers, actually entails. What is Disney saying we can get for $3,026?

between 356 and 378 Mickey pretzels

 

[Laketravis]

When prices are increasing across an entire industry and there’s not a notable change in scarcity, it points to a cost issue for the industry.

I do suspect wages are the biggest factor considering the ongoing labor shortage with especially with regard to housekeeping.

Also Disney’s minimum wage has gone up by 80% since 2018, far outpacing consumer inflation in the same time period.

Interesting that they still only offer every-other-day housekeeping at the values and moderates so they've cut that cost significantly. And while you're citing cost increases "for the industry" note that Universal provides daily housekeeping at its value resorts while offering them for as low as $85 a night.

Ultimately I believe it all points to poor management and an over-zealous initiative to mazimize profits no matter what the consequences.

 

[Stripes]

Interesting that they still only offer every-other-day housekeeping at the values and moderates so they've cut that cost significantly. And while you're citing cost increases "for the industry" note that Universal provides daily housekeeping at its value resorts while offering them for as low as $85 a night.

Ultimately I believe it all points to poor management and an over-zealous initiative to mazimize profits no matter what the consequences.

Disney has thousands more rooms than Universal does and doesn’t contract out the operations of the hotel to a third party. Loews pays their employees less than Universal or Disney

 

[Laketravis]

Disney has thousands more rooms than Universal does and doesn’t contract out the operations of the hotel to a third party. Loews pays their employees less than Universal or Disney

Yet Disney shutters many of those rooms and entire wings in order to reduce operational costs. They aren't paying housekeeping to makeover empty rooms. Less guests, less service costs. WDW has gotten very adept at spending only exactly what is required and to the penny. From every other day housekeeping to RFID's on your beverage cup to ensure they don't incur an additional 3 cents of expense from abuse.

And while you are focusing solely on housekeeping, perhaps Disney should subcontract the resorts out to a third party like Universal has successfully done? I don't think there is any doubt that when making peer-to-peer comparisons, Universal resorts blow WDW resorts away in terms of quality, amenities, price, and service.

BTW, many of the Universal employees I spoke with last week (primarily F&B, not housekeeping) actually came from WDW because they get more hours and can make more money.

 

[JD80]

Yet Disney shutters many of those rooms and entire wings in order to reduce operational costs. They aren't paying housekeeping to makeover empty rooms. Less guests, less service costs. WDW has gotten very adept at spending only exactly what is required and to the penny. From every other day housekeeping to RFID's on your beverage cup to ensure they don't incur an additional 3 cents of expense from abuse.

And while you are focusing solely on housekeeping, perhaps Disney should subcontract the resorts out to a third party like Universal has successfully done? I don't think there is any doubt that when making peer-to-peer comparisons, Universal resorts blow WDW resorts away in terms of quality, amenities, price, and service.

BTW, many of the Universal employees I spoke with last week (primarily F&B, not housekeeping) actually came from WDW because they get more hours and can make more money.

Regarding shuttered rooms, via SEC filing Disney has had consistent room nights per year consistently since 2016 with 100-200k various over the years.

Just saying. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking "shuttering rooms" is just an over reaction and an internet rumor?

Quick internet search shows Universal having every other day housekeeping I believe? Is that wrong? I won't argue price but what other amenities are considered "blown away"?

 

[Laketravis]

Regarding shuttered rooms, via SEC filing Disney has had consistent room nights per year consistently since 2016 with 100-200k various over the years.

Just saying. Maybe I'm wrong in thinking "shuttering rooms" is just an over reaction and an internet rumor?

If that's the case then the rooms are occupied and generating revenue, offsetting the cost of half-as-much housekeeping.

Not sure if the shuttering is true or not but I will say that the last 5 or 6 times I was recently there in the Values some of the buildings definitely looked like nobody was in them.

 

[Stripes]

Yet Disney shutters many of those rooms and entire wings in order to reduce operational costs.

As all hotels do when there is not full occupancy. This isn’t a Disney-exclusive practice. Disney has tens of thousands of rooms. At a standard occupancy rate of 85%, there’s going to be loads of vacant rooms. It doesn’t mean they’re offline and unavailable.

Although I think you might be confused about what this really means.

And while you are focusing solely on housekeeping, perhaps Disney should subcontract the resorts out to a third party like Universal has successfully done? I don't think there is any doubt that when making peer-to-peer comparisons, Universal resorts blow WDW resorts away in terms of quality, amenities, price, and service.

BTW, many of the Universal employees I spoke with last week (primarily F&B, not housekeeping) actually came from WDW because they get more hours and can make more money.

Well, for one, Disney’s hotel cast members are unionized. That alone is a major obstacle to outsourcing.

I enjoy my time at Disney resorts more than Universal’s. I can’t speak to your experience but Google reviews suggest the public rates them about even with some value resorts at Disney having higher ratings than Universal’s and vice versa.

while offering them for as low as $85 a night.

Can you show me?

If that's the case then the rooms are occupied and generating revenue, offsetting the cost of half-as-much housekeeping.

Loews is also doing every other day housekeeping at the Universal resorts.

Not sure if the shuttering is true or not but I will say that the last 5 or 6 times I was recently there in the Values some of the buildings definitely looked like nobody was in them.

Just because they’re not occupied doesn’t mean they’re not available to book. Disney’s occupancy rates are at normal levels and as @JD80 mentioned, available room nights are also normal.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

If you want a REAL pretzel on WDW ground? I think Wetzel is still kicking at Springs. Love that place.

Germany used to sell a good quality pretzel, but I’m not sure if they still do.

I think the rest of this discussion is pointless until we figure out what the cheapest vacation, based on WDW internal numbers,

Yeah, what is a “vacation” cause a trip to Disney world can be all over the map.

$140 x 3 = $420
2 day tickets for a family of 4 = $900?

That’s $1320 before food and transportation.

 

[Laketravis]

Can you show me?

Here you go. And that included daily housekeeping, not every other day. And an actual refrigerator, not a "beverage cooler". And a fitness center. And hallway room access. And...and....and......well, you get my point.

I'm not going to be able to convince you. But if we accept your argument that Disney can't control skyrocketing costs and has no choice but to make further cuts and raise prices even more while delivering less value in order to eeek out additional operating income, that doesn't bode well for the future of WDW.

 

[TalkingHead]

“WDW food prices are comparable to malls, which are dying a social and cultural death” probably isn’t the ace card you think it is.

 

[Laketravis]

Quick internet search shows Universal having every other day housekeeping I believe? Is that wrong? I won't argue price but what other amenities are considered "blown away"?

Cabana Bay was every other day when I was there in November, so yeah I was surprised when we checked in last week at Dockside and they asked if we wanted daily housekeeping.

I listed the other differences above.

 

[DarkMetroid567]

“WDW food prices are comparable to malls, which are dying a social and cultural death” probably isn’t the ace card you think it is.

Silly take because the argument was about pretzels, which are only also available at (1) malls (2) movie theatres and (3) Sam’s Club. They’re like $2 at the latter option, at least.

 

[Stripes]

Here you go. And that included daily housekeeping, not every other day. And an actual refrigerator, not a "beverage cooler". And a fitness center. And hallway room access. And...and....and......well, you get my point.

I'm not going to be able to convince you. But if we accept your argument that Disney can't control skyrocketing costs and has no choice but to make further cuts and raise prices even more while delivering less value in order to eeek out additional operating income, that doesn't bode well for the future of WDW.

The skyrocketing costs are no longer skyrocketing. The company is investing more in WDW projects than they have in my entire lifetime, which will drive attendance to the resort.

Meanwhile, their competition is evidently increasing prices at a rapid pace. I simply cannot find a room at Endless Summer for anywhere near as cheap as you snagged it. For me, neither a cooler fridge that I would never take advantage of nor a fitness center I would never use are worth the paper thin walls that prevent me from getting a good night’s rest.

 

[Jrb1979]

Out of 50 million k-12 students in the US, on average 10-20 die per year in school
Shootings. Obviously that’s too many but saying it’s one of the most dangerous places is just wrong. Literally more likely to be struck by lightning than die in a school shooting.

By far the most dangerous place for a kid is actually the car.

Agreed. It's crazy how many here seem to live sheltered lives. You must all live in gated communities

 

[James Alucobond]

“WDW food prices are comparable to malls, which are dying a social and cultural death” probably isn’t the ace card you think it is.

Food prices in malls are the same prices you will find in equivalent restaurants outside of malls. I swear some people here haven't visited a fast casual restaurant in half a decade or something.