WOW - What a week at WDW

[Otamin]

I say this as a Brit, but I find the tipping culture in the US truly bizarre.

Tips should not be needed to make up for poor salaries.

For what it’s worth I’m in the UK right now and many restaurants have added a 12-15% “service charge” to the bill - which is annoying. Just raise the prices 12-15% if that’s what it’s going to cost.

I assume it’s separated here in the UK since service charges are for the most part discretionary.

 

[TalkToEthan]

I say this as a Brit, but I find the tipping culture in the US truly bizarre.

Most of if not the entire globe find it bizarre.
It’s nonsensical and arbitrary.
Mexico expects it but only because it’s likely a spillover from the US…… Canada, too??

 

[Nubs70]

I say this as a Brit, but I find the tipping culture in the US truly bizarre.

Tips should not be needed to make up for poor salaries.


I assume it’s separated here in the UK since service charges are for the most part discretionary.

Correct, in Michigan in US, the tipped minimum wage is going to increase to the standard minimum wage over a few years. There will only be a single minimum wage rate.

Funny, how the tipped wage recipients are howling mad. They "Fought for $15" and now realize, after simple math, they stand to make less $/hr than the tipped wage + tip scheme.

 

[TalkToEthan]

Tips should not be needed to make up for poor salaries.

Low pay is necessary in a mixed economy—— if we’re going to do this watered down capitalist thing then we should expect and accept poor salaries for some workers.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I say this as a Brit, but I find the tipping culture in the US truly bizarre.

Tips should not be needed to make up for poor salaries.

That’s because you don’t seem to understand how businesses are run and tax/insurance obligations for US businesses.

In reality no one involved in these business relationships that have tipped employees, not the employer, not the employee, and not the customer want to change the current tip system, as each party would lose out if it is changed.

Using real simple numbers let’s just say an employee getting tips is paid $10 per hour, and relies on tips to get the additional $5 per hour to get him to a minimum wage $15 per hour. Under the current system the employee gets the $5 in tips, and will only pay income tax on the tips. The employer pays nothing in connection with the $5, and the customer pays that extra $5 only.

Now say you make the change and eliminate tips, and the server is paid $15 per hour in wages. That employee is now going to pay not only federal income tax on the $5 like they did when it was a tip, but they are also going to pay FICA, social security, Medicare. As such to the employee, it’s a net LOSS.

On the employer side, unlike when the $5 came from tips, they are going to have additional expenses as they have to pay the employer portions of the same payroll taxes on the added $5. In addition they’re insurance rates/premiums , like worker’s compensation, GL, which are based on payroll amount will also go up. That’s all in addition to the extra $5 an hour in expenses they have. That extra $5 per hour translates into almost an added $10 expense to the employer.

And now we get to the customer. You know the employer is not just going to eat the added expenses he has so he is going to raise costs to cover the added $10 per hour. The customer who was before tipping $5 is now paying $10 more in food costs.

So at the end of the day, business costs go up, customers pay more, and the server gets less. The only party that “wins” in this change is the government, who is getting more tax revenue, which is why you see legislators pushing to make the change

 

[Goofyernmost]

That’s because you don’t seem to understand how businesses are run and tax/insurance obligations for US businesses.

In reality no one involved in these business relationships that have tipped employees, not the employer, not the employee, and not the customer want to change the current tip system, as each party would lose out if it is changed.

Using real simple numbers let’s just say an employee getting tips is paid $10 per hour, and relies on tips to get the additional $5 per hour to get him to a minimum wage $15 per hour. Under the current system the employee gets the $5 in tips, and will only pay income tax on the tips. The employer pays nothing in connection with the $5, and the customer pays that extra $5 only.

Now say you make the change and eliminate tips, and the server is paid $15 per hour in wages. That employee is now going to pay not only federal income tax on the $5 like they did when it was a tip, but they are also going to pay FICA, social security, Medicare. As such to the employee, it’s a net LOSS.

On the employer side, unlike when the $5 came from tips, they are going to have additional expenses as they have to pay the employer portions of the same payroll taxes on the added $5. In addition they’re insurance rates/premiums , like worker’s compensation, GL, which are based on payroll amount will also go up. That’s all in addition to the extra $5 an hour in expenses they have. That extra $5 per hour translates into almost an added $10 expense to the employer.

And now we get to the customer. You know the employer is not just going to eat the added expenses he has so he is going to raise costs to cover the added $10 per hour. The customer who was before tipping $5 is now paying $10 more in food costs.

So at the end of the day, business costs go up, customers pay more, and the server gets less. The only party that “wins” in this change is the government, who is getting more tax revenue, which is why you see legislators pushing to make the change

The problem with that scenario is that Employee's are legally supposed to claim all those tips as income and be taxed on them and also pay the social security contribution as well. If they don't, which happens probably all of the time, they are breaking the law and if the government wants to go after them, they would be liable for all that. The only winner would be the employer that wouldn't be sharing their portion of the social security/medicare contribution. Once again a win for businesses. If they raised the amount paid to the employee, then all that would automatically happen.

I'm guessing that many people would continue to tip a person if the service is above and beyond, however, it should be the job of the employer to make sure that the service is top notch by making sure the employee is doing their job correctly. If not, they are out. That is a job for management to decide, not me. I know I would be willing to pay a little more to cover that expense if I knew I was rewarding the individual that gave me the superior service instead of me having to decide whether or not what I give out as a tip is really a totally essential part of the persons needs. If it really is extra then I should not be made to feel guilty if I didn't pay it. Currently it no longer acts as an incentive for the wait staff to do a good job. I had to do a good job with no tips for over 50 years or get fired.

Losing a tip for one or two groups or individuals is no where near as harmful as knowing if you don't do your job you could be completely without a job. The employer should also be concerned about how many times their employee was denied a tip because of bad service which would probably led to a situation where the customer never comes back. Not everyone is a Karen. I know I have just left a place many times, unhappy with either the food or the service and never said anything to anyone, I just never returned. (There's also a good chance if a friend asked me about the place, I would express my concern about the location. I usually didn't even know the name of the server.

As soon as a restaurant can tell me that they can charge $10 for a quarter of a head of lettuce that cost them less than a dollar for a head of lettuce that was 80% of four salads ($40.00 total) and still cannot afford to pay their front line employees a living wage, I will side with them. That tip reliant system came into affect when you used to pay 85 cents for a steak and is no longer workable, when even McDonalds is charging $7. for a greasy 1 /4 inch thick hamburger.

 

[ppete1975]

So, no “With Six You Get Eggroll” , but bend over ‘cause here comes an automatic 18% gratuity, plus extra if you want to make sure your server gets a tip…?!?!?!
Where’s the 18% gratuity, before your servers tip, going…the food expediter, the bar back, the person bussing tables, etc. I get it, but
I remember when a 15% tip was considered generous, if the service was good, period. You didn’t need to feel guilty about tipping nothing if the service was crap.
All that being said, these days I almost always tip 20-25% minimum…if the service is good.
The “Well, if you don’t add to the mandatory 18%, your server won’t get anything.” crap…well, they can stuff that.

The whole gratuity/tipping thing has gotten outta’ hand these days anyway.
Last night, I ordered a pizza to be picked up for our son, who was gonna’ be at home while my wife and I attended her office Christmas party.
And, there was the friggin’ gratuity/tip screen…15%, 20%, 25% and other…WTH, anymore…?!?!?!
They didn’t deliver it to me, serve it to me, etc.
I’m not tipping for just throwing a small $13.99 pizza together, shoving it in an oven and plopping it in a cardboard box. That price was already too high. Shoulda’ just gone to Little Cesar’s…!!!!!
People can think of me what they will, as I’m too darn old to give a hoot.

I love the places like panera or chipotle, or even retail when it auto asks for a tip. They didnt serve me, they did their job. I feel if you dont bring me my food and drink refills and I have to bus my own table you arent a server.

 

[donaldtoo]

I love the places like panera or chipotle, or even retail when it auto asks for a tip. They didnt serve me, they did their job. I feel if you dont bring me my food and drink refills and I have to bus my own table you arent a server.

Yea, honestly, I don’t blame them for trying…get it however you can, as long as it’s legal and ethical, I say.
But, doesn’t mean I’m gonna’ fall for it…better luck with the next, potential, sucker.
But, also honestly, there is hardly a day that goes by where I don’t wish I was the guy that could lay a C-note tip on the person that made my $10 sandwich, all with a sincere smile on their face.
It would be so cool to do, but I don’t have that kinda’ $$$$$$$$$$$…!!!

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

In reality no one involved in these business relationships that have tipped employees, not the employer, not the employee, and not the customer want to change the current tip system, as each party would lose out if it is changed.

You can’t speak in absolute like that - there are those who would like to see it changed.

Just charge me what it costs - plain and simple. It’s literally that easy.

So if a $5 side dish is actually going to cost $6 ($5 + tip) just put $6 on the menu.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

You can’t speak in absolute like that - there are those who would like to see it changed.

Just charge me what it costs - plain and simple. It’s literally that easy.

So if a $5 side dish is actually going to cost $6 ($5 + tip) just put $6 on the menu.

While I generally try to stear clear of absolutes, I am comfortable here with the idea that no one wants to pay more for a meal if they don’t have to. Meaning no one is going to say they would rather pay $10 dollars to cover a $5 increase in pay to a server and the added taxes and insurance costs to the owner, as opposed to just paying $5 as a tip.[/QUOTE]

 

[Goofyernmost]

While I generally try to stear clear of absolutes, I am comfortable here with the idea that no one wants to pay more for a meal if they don’t have to. Meaning no one is going to say they would rather pay $10 dollars to cover a $5 increase in pay to a server and the added taxes and insurance costs to the owner, as opposed to just paying $5 as a tip.

Sadly, I think, I don't just think of myself. I try to think how others might be affected. Currently the Government has a number that they feel the tip dependent should pay taxes on. That is whether they make that much in tips or not. Many times those in lower end restaurants do not make the required amount of money and therefore are required to pay income on money that they may never have received.

Then there are those that even now decide that they don't have to pay a tip if they don't want too. No matter how much extra effort they had to do for them. Sometimes they make more than just a higher salary would make, sometimes they report that amount, sometimes they don't. It's hard to plan a budget if your income has the possibility of not actually getting that amount.

In spite of being one of the wealthiest nations in the world, Americans tend to also be the cheapest when it comes to leaving tips. They will find a thousand excuses why they should either short change the waitstaff or not leave anything at all. If they through trying harder earned more in addition to what the employer pays them, than a tip would be a reward for excellent service and not just an easily skipped, freaking, social requirement. Why because then it wouldn't be required, it would be a thank you for going that extra mile.

 

[mysto]

Yippee. A tipping thread.

View attachment 830470

Prescient post.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Then there are those that even now decide that they don't have to pay a tip if they don't want too. No matter how much extra effort they had to do for them. Sometimes they make more than just a higher salary would make, sometimes they report that amount, sometimes they don't. It's hard to plan a budget if your income has the possibility of not actually getting that amount.

In spite of being one of the wealthiest nations in the world, Americans tend to also be the cheapest when it comes to leaving tips.

Not sure i get these two thoughts.

First the people who think that way are correct. NO ONE has to pay a tip if they don't want to. That is the very nature of a tip or gratuity. Its NOT part of the price or charge. It's something that is at the discretion of the customer. They get to decide how much to tip...if anything. I will also admit most time I am in a restaurant, I don't actually see the "extra effort" that you are describing. Now this is going to be somewhat hyperbole, but no server at a restaurant has ever gone out and washed my car. Meaning what they generally do is take our order, bring it back to the kitchen, and then bring the food out to us...which is not extra effort but their actual base job description.

Now i do agree with the concept that its hard to plan a budget when you don't know what your actual income is going to be. It's what makes the system imperfect. However its the system that is in place, and getting the momentum to want to change it now, especially when i think it would result in overall net added expenses/prices is hard.

For the last part, I actually don't see this at all. Outside of America its been my experience that leaving tips is far outside the norm. Tipping appears to be a more American Cultural norm. I

 

[Nubs70]

Waitstaff in Europe are generally paid a living wage therefore tipping isn't common past rounding up the bill.

Now that minimum wage earners have won the war in Fight for 15, they can now expect to get round ups like the Europeans.

 

[Figgy1]

Waitstaff in Europe are generally paid a living wage therefore tipping isn't common past rounding up the bill.

Now that minimum wage earners have won the war in Fight for 15, they can now expect to get round ups like the Europeans.

That's still in very few states and they're still expected to tip out other staff based on a percentage of the check

 

[Chi84]

Am I the only one here who doesn’t want minimum wage servers?

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Am I the only one here who doesn’t want minimum wage servers?

I know it was probably meant as a joke/lighten the mood, but really is there any reason that food servers wouldn't be paid minimum wage?

I mean if we are going to have a system that sets a floor on wages, i would image food servers would be the type of position that you would not be paying much more than the minimum. The position doesn't require a special unique set of skills or knowledge base that you need to pay a premium for. Really almost anyone can do the job, meaning there is a large market of people available for the job, and not a ton of competition.

 

[Chi84]

I know it was probably meant as a joke/lighten the mood, but really is there any reason that food servers wouldn't be paid minimum wage?

I mean if we are going to have a system that sets a floor on wages, i would image food servers would be the type of position that you would not be paying much more than the minimum. The position doesn't require a special unique set of skills or knowledge base that you need to pay a premium for. Really almost anyone can do the job, meaning there is a large market of people available for the job, and not a ton of competition.

We enjoy certain restaurants because of their hospitality and servers are a large part of that experience. It’s what keeps us coming back. Changing the system will result in an entirely different type of server.

But yes, if you’re talking about Denny’s or Applebees minimum wage likely wouldn’t make a difference.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

But yes, if you’re talking about Denny’s or Applebees minimum wage likely wouldn’t make a difference.

Don’t the higher end restaurants charge quite a bit more so they can pay the servers more?

Like the current system - better servers go to higher class restaurants cause they make more tips off the high prices.

 

[Figgy1]

I know it was probably meant as a joke/lighten the mood, but really is there any reason that food servers wouldn't be paid minimum wage?

I mean if we are going to have a system that sets a floor on wages, i would image food servers would be the type of position that you would not be paying much more than the minimum. The position doesn't require a special unique set of skills or knowledge base that you need to pay a premium for. Really almost anyone can do the job, meaning there is a large market of people available for the job, and not a ton of competition.

Raglan Road lawsuit Servers at Disney have to be way more than mindless drones