Would You Take a Bullet Train from Anaheim to Las Vegas?... Brightline West

[TP2000]

We've got a good mix of SoCal locals, Western US Disneyland fans, and North American Disneyland fans here, who do their Disneyland visits differently yet equally as passionately. So I pose this question... Would your Disneyland visit be enhanced/extended by a 2.5 hour high speed rail link to Las Vegas?

In just a few months, the first privately owned and operated passenger railroad in this country in 50 years will begin its service in Florida from Miami to Orlando. Called Brightline, it's a high speed (low end of that global scale at 125mph) passenger rail that will soon go the 235 miles from Miami to Orlando, with four stops in between. Brightline is sleek, fast, has excellent service, strikingly modern stations and trains, and is winning over many fans in Florida.

I have no idea if every Brightline train car from Miami to Orlando has a rolling, fully stocked bar cart surrounded by a gaggle of young men and their, um, sisters?, each holding a mandatory cocktail while going 125mph to an even better party, but when I Googled "Brightline train cabin" this image came up and so how could I NOT use it?

Cheers, kids!

But now that Florida line has been labeled Brightline East, because Brightline Florida's parent company (a direct 21st century corporate descendent of famous early 20th century American industrialist Henry Flagler and his Standard Oil empire), is already heavily invested in Brightline West. Brightline West is a high speed rail system that will reach speeds up to 200mph from Las Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga, using brand new stations built by Brightline in both cities. Tentatively opening by 2028 for the LA Olympics.

But what if Brightline West built an extension from Rancho Cucamonga to Anaheim? The massive ARTIC station (Anaheim Regional Transportation Intermodal Center) now sits vastly under-utilized and financially distraught. ARTIC opened in 2014 and was supposed to be the southern terminus of the government-built California High Speed Rail trunk line to San Francisco, but that plan has collapsed and the best Californians can hope for now is a rail line from Bakersfield to Merced by 2033, or later.

So ARTIC sits mostly unused and unloved, a relic of a forgotten past and forgotten promises from 10 years ago.

The Brightline West route will be 218 miles from Las Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga, about the distance from Miami to Orlando. It would only be another 35 miles to Anaheim, which is arguably a better and more popular terminus than Rancho Cucamonga (with apologies to Jan & Dean and the ladies of the Anaheim, Azusa and Cucamonga Sewing Circle, Book Review, and Timing Association).

Would any of us here take a train from Anaheim to Las Vegas if it could make that journey in 2 and a half hours for about $100? $150? Brightline East from Miami to Orlando takes just under 3 hours at its lower max speed of 125mph and costs $79. Is there a market among Disneyland fans for a direct, high speed rail link between Anaheim and Las Vegas?

 

[shambolicdefending]

Seems like it would be an awkward fit, to be honest. Extending the line deeper into LA makes sense theoretically, but the people going to Disneyland and the people going to Las Vegas are generally not looking for the same type of leisure experiences.

It might actually make more sense going the other way. Making Disneyland more directly accessible to the bustling Clark County area would make a lot of people (including more than a few former Californians) happy.

 

[GimpYancIent]

We've got a good mix of SoCal locals, Western US Disneyland fans, and North American Disneyland fans here, who do their Disneyland visits differently yet equally as passionately. So I pose this question... Would your Disneyland visit be enhanced/extended by a 2.5 hour high speed rail link to Las Vegas?

In just a few months, the first privately owned and operated passenger railroad in this country in 50 years will begin its service in Florida from Miami to Orlando. Called Brightline, it's a high speed (low end of that global scale at 125mph) passenger rail that will soon go the 235 miles from Miami to Orlando, with four stops in between. Brightline is sleek, fast, has excellent service, strikingly modern stations and trains, and is winning over many fans in Florida.

I have no idea if every Brightline train car from Miami to Orlando has a rolling, fully stocked bar cart surrounded by a gaggle of young men and their, um, sisters?, each holding a mandatory cocktail while going 125mph to an even better party, but when I Googled "Brightline train cabin" this image came up and so how could I NOT use it?

Cheers, kids!

View attachment 716879

But now that Florida line has been labeled Brightline East, because Brightline Florida's parent company (a direct 21st century corporate descendent of famous early 20th century American industrialist Henry Flagler and his Standard Oil empire), is already heavily invested in Brightline West. Brightline West is a high speed rail system that will reach speeds up to 200mph from Las Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga, using brand new stations built by Brightline in both cities. Tentatively opening by 2028 for the LA Olympics.

But what if Brightline West built an extension from Rancho Cucamonga to Anaheim? The massive ARTIC station (Anaheim Regional Transportation Intermodal Center) now sits vastly under-utilized and financially distraught. ARTIC opened in 2014 and was supposed to be the southern terminus of the government-built California High Speed Rail trunk line to San Francisco, but that plan has collapsed and the best Californians can hope for now is a rail line from Bakersfield to Merced by 2033, or later.

So ARTIC sits mostly unused and unloved, a relic of a forgotten past and forgotten promises from 10 years ago.

The Brightline West route will be 218 miles from Las Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga, about the distance from Miami to Orlando. It would only be another 35 miles to Anaheim, which is arguably a better and more popular terminus than Rancho Cucamonga (with apologies to Jan & Dean and the ladies of the Anaheim, Azusa and Cucamonga Sewing Circle, Book Review, and Timing Association).

Would any of us here take a train from Anaheim to Las Vegas if it could make that journey in 2 and a half hours for about $100? $150? Brightline East from Miami to Orlando takes just under 3 hours at its lower max speed of 125mph and costs $79. Is there a market among Disneyland fans for a direct, high speed rail link between Anaheim and Las Vegas?

Too bad this concept was not was not brought up prior to the California High Speed Rail concept. The California High Speed Rail plan has been and continues to flounder. This Anaheim to Vegas project makes more sense and definitely seems doable.

 

[wdrive]

Las Vegas - Los Angeles would make more sense I feel, but, if the price was right, I would take a Anaheim - Vegas train

 

[chadwpalm]

Vegas and Disneyland are my two go-to vacations spots and it would be cool to fly to Vegas, spend a few days, then take the train to Anaheim and spend a few more days there before flying home.

Would have been cooler to take a train from San Jose to Anaheim and then to Vegas, but I doubt the California train will be done in my lifetime...if ever. They should have just let private companies do it. Elon could have had the train done by now, but he's too insistent on creating Hyperloop and Boring technology and would have never taken it on. Oh well.

 

[westie]

I live in the bay area and frequent las vegas. If I could travel from the bay to vegas and it was cheaper than a southwest flight, sure.

 

[D.Silentu]

I would go once for the experience of riding a bullet train. I'm opposed to the High Speed Rail project, partly due to what the ensuing housing boom in Central California would do to land, and eventually, produce prices. Yet I'm interested in the technology, so I'd take the trip once before switching back to the more economical driving.

 

[TP2000]

It might actually make more sense going the other way. Making Disneyland more directly accessible to the bustling Clark County area would make a lot of people (including more than a few former Californians) happy.

Oh, there's an interesting point. Flip the question and pose it to the Las Vegas visitor base.

Would your visit to Las Vegas be enhanced/extended if you could take a 2.5 hour bullet train to Disneyland?

Disney would like the ability for more customers to have that option, it would seem. Or just the local Vegas residents using it as well.

 

[TP2000]

Too bad this concept was not was not brought up prior to the California High Speed Rail concept. The California High Speed Rail plan has been and continues to flounder. This Anaheim to Vegas project makes more sense and definitely seems doable.

I doubt the California train will be done in my lifetime...if ever. They should have just let private companies do it.

Agreed. I voted for Prop 1 back in '08, but we all got duped. Again. California High Speed Rail will never connect Anaheim and SF in anyone's lifetime here, and it certainly won't do it at the standards that were written in the legislation and sunshiny promises of Prop 1 (225 mph trains, 3 hour max travel time between LA and SF, etc.). It's dubious that even the Bakersfield to Merced section will be completed by 2033, or ever.

That's why I'm excited about the success and expansion of Brightline in Florida. It's a private for-profit railroad, getting things built much faster, and then operating the railroad at a higher standard, than any state or federal government ever could.

Brightline West is the way forward now, not California High Speed Rail's train to nowhere. Brightline West already has purchased a lot of land at both terminus locations and for right-of-way (that will mostly run along I-15), and they have a solid business plan that is attracting private investment after their proven success in Florida.

This seems to be the way forward.

 

[TP2000]

Las Vegas - Los Angeles would make more sense I feel, but, if the price was right, I would take a Anaheim - Vegas train

Agreed. But Anaheim's ARTIC is sitting there mostly unused and largely unloved. It was designed and built as a bullet train station for over 10,000 passengers per day. But it's just ended up as a small commuter station for a few hundred passengers per day, and it's radically wasteful and under-utilized.

ARTIC replaced a small yet perfectly sized Amtrak/Metrolink station in the north end of Angel Stadium's parking lot. The passenger loads from 2010 when that old station was in use, to today in 2023 have not changed much at all. Which is ARTIC's core problem.

The Brightline company is not afraid to build brand new, snazzy stations right in the downtown core of major cities. In downtown Miami they have an elevated station in a brand new high rise office/housing complex that Brightline helped build and develop. With Brightline bullet trains sliding in on the third floor, with a slight nod to WDW's Contemporary with the monorails slicing through the lobby.

Brightline stations in less urban yet still well populated areas, like Fort Lauderdale or West Palm Beach, are also quite snazzy and very well placed. The Brightline stations are driving further investment and redevelopment around them for those already affluent cities.

So I'm confident Brightline could be trusted to do something at LA Union Station (although that's a gorgeous facility already, sadly taken over by the homeless and general decay), and then use ARTIC and even snazzy up ARTIC a bit from it's current forlorn state.

Get Brightline West to ARTIC! That's the way forward.

 

[chadwpalm]

Brightline West is the way forward now, not California High Speed Rail's train to nowhere. Brightline West already has purchased a lot of land at both terminus locations and for right-of-way (that will mostly run along I-15), and they have a solid business plan that is attracting private investment after their proven success in Florida.

From the site:

"This 218-mile passenger rail service will be operated by Brightline West from Las Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga, California, with 96% of its alignment within the median of the I-15 highway."

That's crazy, but seems to explain how they are able to do it. Put it down the middle of I-15 and you don't have to take up any other land.

I believe if both Brightline Florida and Brightline West become successful we could see it expand out further. Perhaps they can just purchase the already laid track and right-a-ways from California and finish the project much quicker. Hard to say if that would ever happen though, but S.F. to Las Vegas via Anaheim would be a dream.

 

[TP2000]

From the site:

"This 218-mile passenger rail service will be operated by Brightline West from Las Vegas to Rancho Cucamonga, California, with 96% of its alignment within the median of the I-15 highway."

That's crazy, but seems to explain how they are able to do it. Put it down the middle of I-15 and you don't have to take up any other land.

Isn't it wild!? That I-15 alignment has been available for many years, but the government didn't want it. So Brightline has applied to use it for their own private railroad company instead.

In this rendering, the camera is traveling at the same 200 mph speed as the train, so the cars speeding on the 15 freeway are whizzing by as if they are standing still.

I believe if both Brightline Florida and Brightline West become successful we could see it expand out further. Perhaps they can just purchase the already laid track and right-a-ways from California and finish the project much quicker. Hard to say if that would ever happen though, but S.F. to Las Vegas via Anaheim would be a dream.

I agree. I think a private company like Brightline is really the only way high speed rail will get built in this country, especially because there's just a dozen or so city-pairs in the USA where high speed rail makes sense. Or a half dozen if you really want to be profitable.

I watch the Las Vegas TV news stations now as we get them here, and the locals in Clark County are getting excited over this! It really does seem to be moving ahead quickly and with great precision by the Brightline company.

I would just love for Brightline to broach the concept of extending past Rancho Cucamonga into the core of SoCal population. And just like Buzz Price predicted for Walt almost 75 years ago, Anaheim is still the dead center of SoCal's 20 Million population. And the huge ARTIC station is just sitting there a mile from Disneyland, nearly abandoned and rather unloved...

 

[Figments Friend]

Isn't it wild!? That I-15 alignment has been available for many years, but the government didn't want it. So Brightline has applied to use it for their own private railroad company instead.

In this rendering, the camera is traveling at the same 200 mph speed as the train, so the cars speeding on the 15 freeway are whizzing by as if they are standing still.

I agree. I think a private company like Brightline is really the only way high speed rail will get built in this country, especially because there's just a dozen or so city-pairs in the USA where high speed rail makes sense. Or a half dozen if you really want to be profitable.

I watch the Las Vegas TV news stations now as we get them here, and the locals in Clark County are getting excited over this! It really does seem to be moving ahead quickly and with great precision by the Brightline company.

I would just love for Brightline to broach the concept of extending past Rancho Cucamonga into the core of SoCal population. And just like Buzz Price predicted for Walt almost 75 years ago, Anaheim is still the dead center of SoCal's 20 Million population. And the huge ARTIC station is just sitting there a mile from Disneyland, nearly abandoned and rather unloved...

The lighting in that photo is fabulous.
More people need to see that in person.

-

 

[TP2000]

The lighting in that photo is fabulous.
More people need to see that in person.

-

I like ARTIC, don't get me wrong! It's a rather stunning structure, and if it had been actually used for what it was intended for (bullet train terminal serving thousands of passengers per day) it would be fabulous. But now it's a wildly overbuilt and mostly abandoned bus stop and commuter train station.

As it stand now, ARTIC is mostly known in OC for its light shows. They light it up in all RED when the Angels are playing, in ORANGE when the Ducks are playing, red-white-blue for July 4th, red-green for Christmas, kelly green for St. Patrick's Day, etc. It's cute.

13 year ago there was talk, often in this forum, of extending a monorail or tram system from Disneyland's main entrance area to ARTIC. It would have provided cross-platform transfers from California High Speed Rail and Amtrak to a Disneyland-bound monorail. The city of Anaheim got fairly deep into the planning of that transit line from the Resort District, down Katella, to ARTIC's arriving bullet trains.

A Disneyland bound monorail slides in next to two California High Speed Rail bullet trains freshly arrived from San Francisco!

But the California High Speed Rail project that Californians voted for in 2008 and have already spent $9 Billion (with a B) on planning for, will never arrive in Anaheim. It's time to admit that and move on.

ARTIC needs to be used as a bullet train station. Brightline could make a fortune on a Vegas-Anaheim run of 2.5 hours. It could be a real party train!

 

[DLR92]

California high speed rail need to be priority. I blame our past politicians ignoring the need for public transportation. I will support the plans for the high speed rail even if it mean I can’t ever use it in my lifetime, it about long term future.

 

[TP2000]

The lighting in that photo is fabulous.
More people need to see that in person.

-

I just remembered, ARTIC used to have a couple of restaurants up on the second floor! There was a period of time in the mid 2010's when they were still trying to fill that big facility with the shops and restaurants it was designed to have for travelers. ARTIC was designed and built to handle over 50,000 passengers per day, but today it is handling less than 1,000 passengers per day.

In the mid 2010's they were trying to make it a "locals hangout" instead because the passenger traffic never materialized, and there was hundreds of free parking spaces out front sitting unused every day. The ARTIC restaurants closed quickly after they opened.

It's a really neat building, with some great views!

Here's a cutaway of ARTIC, if you ever wanted to know what a dissected dead armadillo looked like. There was retail spaces and fast food on the first floor, but the second floor was all designed for multiple sit-down restaurants and more retail. The concourse bridge over to the tracks is up on the third floor.

Restaurants’ openings at ARTIC rolling forward, slowly

A pair of restaurant owners are still navigating the permitting process and waiting to start construction on their sit-down eateries inside Anaheim’s new transit station. The restaurants had …

www.ocregister.com

 

[chadwpalm]

I just remembered, ARTIC used to have a couple of restaurants up on the second floor! There was a period of time in the mid 2010's when they were still trying to fill that big facility with the shops and restaurants it was designed to have for travelers. ARTIC was designed and built to handle over 50,000 passengers per day, but today it is handling less than 1,000 passengers per day.

In the mid 2010's they were trying to make it a "locals hangout" instead because the passenger traffic never materialized, and there was hundreds of free parking spaces out front sitting unused every day. The ARTIC restaurants closed quickly after they opened.

It's a really neat building, with some great views!

Here's a cutaway of ARTIC, if you ever wanted to know what a dissected dead armadillo looked like. There was retail spaces and fast food on the first floor, but the second floor was all designed for multiple sit-down restaurants and more retail. The concourse bridge over to the tracks is up on the third floor.

View attachment 717057

Restaurants’ openings at ARTIC rolling forward, slowly

A pair of restaurant owners are still navigating the permitting process and waiting to start construction on their sit-down eateries inside Anaheim’s new transit station. The restaurants had …

www.ocregister.com

There is a shopping center in Manteca that was built around 2006-2007 when things were thriving just before the economy crashed, and it was anchored by a Bass Pro Shop, movie theater, Best Buy, and JC Penny. In between was built an outdoor strip mall and it was going to be the ultimate hangout for all the people in a 10-mile radius. Then everything crashed and they couldn't get any stores in there. The Best Buy and JC Penny are now gone and it is still a barren wasteland, even after 15 years.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[NobodyElse]

Short answer (as an O.C. resident) is yes.

Now, a few random thoughts / observations.

Way back in the previous century, Amtrak used to run a line called the Desert Wind, that ran from Los Angeles to Chicago ( I think it switched or hooked up to the California Zephyr in Ogden), but it had a stop in Las Vegas. We tried it once, to avoid driving and/or the hassle of air travel. We boarded in Fullerton. It was really no faster than car (and we were at the mercy of their extremely limited schedule) but it was quite relaxing. Slow speeds up the pass let one enjoy the wildflowers. I'll definitely try out the higher-speed version of that trip from Rancho Cucamonga (and I certainly hope they align the schedules with Metrolink). If that line is successful, I would hope they would extend service to both Union Station and ARTIC, perhaps with alternating trains.

While I've never experienced a true Japanese "Bullet Train", I've been fortunate enough to travel via HSR in Norway, Sweden, Spain, France and Germany. Some service was better than others, but they were all pretty great. (TGV non-stop from Paris to Bordeaux was fast, smooth, and hassle-free.) If Brightline can come close to that, I think folks will value it as a real alternative to other modes of travel.

And a fun-fact (or perhaps a fun-rumor): That restaurant on the second floor of ARTIC (some sort of oyster house?) had many delays in opening. One of the reasons was that they had ordered permanently-mounted single post tables for their terrace seating area. What they failed to realize was that one of the components of the building's LEED Platinum certification was radiant heated floors. The placement of the tables would have drilled into the system, so they had to order freestanding tables instead. Oops.

 

[truecoat]

Short answer (as an O.C. resident) is yes.

Now, a few random thoughts / observations.

Way back in the previous century, Amtrak used to run a line called the Desert Wind, that ran from Los Angeles to Chicago ( I think it switched or hooked up to the California Zephyr in Ogden), but it had a stop in Las Vegas. We tried it once, to avoid driving and/or the hassle of air travel. We boarded in Fullerton. It was really no faster than car (and we were at the mercy of their extremely limited schedule) but it was quite relaxing. Slow speeds up the pass let one enjoy the wildflowers. I'll definitely try out the higher-speed version of that trip from Rancho Cucamonga (and I certainly hope they align the schedules with Metrolink). If that line is successful, I would hope they would extend service to both Union Station and ARTIC, perhaps with alternating trains.

While I've never experienced a true Japanese "Bullet Train", I've been fortunate enough to travel via HSR in Norway, Sweden, Spain, France and Germany. Some service was better than others, but they were all pretty great. (TGV non-stop from Paris to Bordeaux was fast, smooth, and hassle-free.) If Brightline can come close to that, I think folks will value it as a real alternative to other modes of travel.

And a fun-fact (or perhaps a fun-rumor): That restaurant on the second floor of ARTIC (some sort of oyster house?) had many delays in opening. One of the reasons was that they had ordered permanently-mounted single post tables for their terrace seating area. What they failed to realize was that one of the components of the building's LEED Platinum certification was radiant heated floors. The placement of the tables would have drilled into the system, so they had to order freestanding tables instead. Oops.

If the Orlando line is any indication, this train will run many times a day.

 

[Stevek]

Would absolutely do it.