Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

[shortstop]

I really don't understand why they didn't keep the Thunder ranch area or at least an eatery. They have this huge piece of land that they filled in with dirt between the fantasyland entrance to this new land and the existing backstage road. Why not use tht area for a nicely themed frontier themed bar-b-que eatery. They could have even made a mine themed eatery inside a cave and still have the dirt and landscape barrier placed over the structure. Another building like the Fantasmic storage building would have been easy to fit in that area and it would have backed up against a service road already.

There seems to be plenty of room,

The red could have been the sitting area and the orange a kitchen and storage area. The green is the existing service road. for a park that is slowly loosing places for expansion I would think that WDI and TDA would look at projects and see where they can utulize areas for storage and/or guest areas. They have proved to us that they can do a great job in overlapping projects like the Fantasmic building which is hidden under a lush garden area and great rockwork.
Plenty of room too for the small goat petting area.

View attachment 336332

For better or worse, I think they wanted these pathways as wide and unobstructed as possible to not add any more crowding to the area around SWL than is necessary. A restaurant in that space would have gone against that. Personally though I wish they had done what you said, as BTR was my favorite dining experience in the park.

 

[SuddenStorm]

The more I think about this project, the more worried I become.

In the past, the lands inside Disneyland function as a sort of setting to tie each attraction together, with each attraction acting as a sort of "portal" into a different world or adventure. This allows each land to change and grow over time- as new generations of Imagineers reinterpret the land in the context of a modern day audience. Disneyland thrives off of this and does it far better than just about every other theme park- leaving a foot in the past while allowing the lands and attractions to grow an adapt to help maintain relevance to the average consumer. In the case of SWL, this unspoken approach to design is being blurred, with the land itself supposed to act as a portal into a different world. While in SWL, you're not supposed to feel like you're in Disneyland, but are instead inside Batuu. A berm within a berm. Even New Orleans Square doesn't attempt to convince the consumer their actually in New Orleans, but functions more as a New Orleans themed area. I worry this will weaken and confuse the overall product.

It's placement is also atrocious. Toontown works outside the berm due to the backstory devised by the Imagineers- it's a backstage area that has always been there, but wasn't opened to guests until the '90s. SWL isn't attempting to justify it's existence within Disneyland at all, in fact, it actively wants the guest to forget they're in Disneyland.

The Disneyland Railroad/grand circle tour of Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom has been completely left out of Galaxy's Edge. The tracks have always functioned as the border of Disneyland. They didn't bump the railroad out and design the land to have the railroad pass through it. They designed the rockwork in such a way to completely hide the actual land. The biggest expansion Disneyland has seen instead acts as a tumor outside the park, not wanting to integrate within Disneyland's famed berm.

New Orleans Square's two E ticket's have been able to endure for 50 years (though Disney can't seem to get enough of changing Pirates). When riding the Haunted Mansion it's basically the same experience that guests got in '69- albeit with some technical enhancements/altered scenes/altered effects. Do we think the Falcon attraction will be able to survive for as long? In a time where VR is becoming more available to consumers, with computer AI constantly growing, any kind of video game/computer generated program tends to age very quickly and very poorly. Just think of how the games from 10 years ago look compared to now. It's bold of Disney to put what's essentially a giant video game that will rely on teamwork inside their park as an attraction since it will likely require frequent updating (that it probably won't get).

Another huge issue- Disney has based the imagery of this land not on the classic Original trilogy that has defined Star Wars for 40 years. The trilogy that millions have fallen in love with, who's sayings like "May the force be with you" and "No, I am your father" have made it into the public lexicon. They've based the attractions off of the troubled and divisive sequel trilogy. I don't see the First Order and Resistance becoming nearly as timeless as the OT. Who cares about seeing Kylo Ren inside the RotR attraction?

And that's ignoring the numerous operations issues that have been reported on here that I won't reiterate.

After my AP expires in May, I plan on taking a break from the park, and will make sure I have some popcorn ready for when I check the internet and hear about people's experiences inside the land.

 

[DanielBB8]

You’re all over the place. I’m not worried at all.

 

[PB Watermelon]

You’re all over the place. I’m not worried at all.

Not worried, either. Hope ALL the Annuual Passholders cancel their memberships and stay home eating popcorn.

 

[Californian Elitist]

The more I think about this project, the more worried I become.

In the past, the lands inside Disneyland function as a sort of setting to tie each attraction together, with each attraction acting as a sort of "portal" into a different world or adventure. This allows each land to change and grow over time- as new generations of Imagineers reinterpret the land in the context of a modern day audience. Disneyland thrives off of this and does it far better than just about every other theme park- leaving a foot in the past while allowing the lands and attractions to grow an adapt to help maintain relevance to the average consumer. In the case of SWL, this unspoken approach to design is being blurred, with the land itself supposed to act as a portal into a different world. While in SWL, you're not supposed to feel like you're in Disneyland, but are instead inside Batuu. A berm within a berm. Even New Orleans Square doesn't attempt to convince the consumer their actually in New Orleans, but functions more as a New Orleans themed area. I worry this will weaken and confuse the overall product.

It's placement is also atrocious. Toontown works outside the berm due to the backstory devised by the Imagineers- it's a backstage area that has always been there, but wasn't opened to guests until the '90s. SWL isn't attempting to justify it's existence within Disneyland at all, in fact, it actively wants the guest to forget they're in Disneyland.

The Disneyland Railroad/grand circle tour of Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom has been completely left out of Galaxy's Edge. The tracks have always functioned as the border of Disneyland. They didn't bump the railroad out and design the land to have the railroad pass through it. They designed the rockwork in such a way to completely hide the actual land. The biggest expansion Disneyland has seen instead acts as a tumor outside the park, not wanting to integrate within Disneyland's famed berm.

New Orleans Square's two E ticket's have been able to endure for 50 years (though Disney can't seem to get enough of changing Pirates). When riding the Haunted Mansion it's basically the same experience that guests got in '69- albeit with some technical enhancements/altered scenes/altered effects. Do we think the Falcon attraction will be able to survive for as long? In a time where VR is becoming more available to consumers, with computer AI constantly growing, any kind of video game/computer generated program tends to age very quickly and very poorly. Just think of how the games from 10 years ago look compared to now. It's bold of Disney to put what's essentially a giant video game that will rely on teamwork inside their park as an attraction since it will likely require frequent updating (that it probably won't get).

Another huge issue- Disney has based the imagery of this land not on the classic Original trilogy that has defined Star Wars for 40 years. The trilogy that millions have fallen in love with, who's sayings like "May the force be with you" and "No, I am your father" have made it into the public lexicon. They've based the attractions off of the troubled and divisive sequel trilogy. I don't see the First Order and Resistance becoming nearly as timeless as the OT. Who cares about seeing Kylo Ren inside the RotR attraction?

And that's ignoring the numerous operations issues that have been reported on here that I won't reiterate.

After my AP expires in May, I plan on taking a break from the park, and will make sure I have some popcorn ready for when I check the internet and hear about people's experiences inside the land.

The entire project sounds like garbage to me.

My pass expires in March. I also won’t be renewing.

 

[BrianLo]

The Disneyland Railroad/grand circle tour of Walt Disney's Magic Kingdom has been completely left out of Galaxy's Edge. The tracks have always functioned as the border of Disneyland. They didn't bump the railroad out and design the land to have the railroad pass through it. They designed the rockwork in such a way to completely hide the actual land. The biggest expansion Disneyland has seen instead acts as a tumor outside the park, not wanting to integrate within Disneyland's famed berm.

I don't want to interfere with the intention of this thread, but I will say I actively disagree with this. The Disneyland Railroad is as visible in Galaxies Edge as it is in Adventureland, Toontown, Tomorrowland and really only a step below Fantasyland/Main Street/New Orleans with more featured stations.

Prior to 2016 the only land the railroad was actually well integrated into was Critter Country... Now of course it's beautifully integrated into Frontierland (which by the way it wasn't AT ALL before this - backstage static props does not make it incorporated into a land). Kind of strange seeing as that's the most logical place for the railroad to be well integrated.

The railroad IS visible in the land through the Critter Country bridge on the Western flank of the land. The entire vista of Rivers of America basically worships the railroad and the Galaxies edge peaks now. That's the opposite of not integrating into the berm, it IS the berm. Toontown on the other hand is just completely detached.

I think the decision came down to which of the two would the railroad be better to be featured in - Galaxies Edge or Frontierland. I think they made the logical decision. Having it run through Galaxies Edge means we would lose the absolutely wonderful integration with the Rivers and Big Thunder.

I DO think the execution of Galaxies Edge differs, but I think the disagreement comes down to the intent. Themed design has evolved somewhat. A transitional fence was good enough for Walt's day, now with modern parks they are attempting to aim higher. Maybe that's the totally wrong approach to Disneyland and that is totally open to debate. But they wanted the feel of the Radiator Springs Gate or Diagon Alley Reveals. It's not irreverence on their part to Disneyland Prime, it's just what the designers are trying to do with more modern projects. Again that's freely debatable whether or not that is disrespectful to Disneyland... but I really have a hard time with people who poo poo Toontown as being 'totally ok'. Toontown does not measure up to any of the constantly roving goalposts people set other than it already existing.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Toontown is like the Sega CD add-on to Disneyland's Genesis while Star Wars land is like the 32X. Both stick out from the classic charming perfect DL, but SWL is looming over everything.

 

[SuddenStorm]

I don't want to interfere with the intention of this thread, but I will say I actively disagree with this. The Disneyland Railroad is as visible in Galaxies Edge as it is in Adventureland, Toontown, Tomorrowland and really only a step below Fantasyland/Main Street/New Orleans with more featured stations.

Prior to 2016 the only land the railroad was actually well integrated into was Critter Country... Now of course it's beautifully integrated into Frontierland (which by the way it wasn't AT ALL before this - backstage static props does not make it incorporated into a land). Kind of strange seeing as that's the most logical place for the railroad to be well integrated.

The railroad IS visible in the land through the Critter Country bridge on the Western flank of the land. The entire vista of Rivers of America basically worships the railroad and the Galaxies edge peaks now. That's the opposite of not integrating into the berm, it IS the berm. Toontown on the other hand is just completely detached.

I think the decision came down to which of the two would the railroad be better to be featured in - Galaxies Edge or Frontierland. I think they made the logical decision. Having it run through Galaxies Edge means we would lose the absolutely wonderful integration with the Rivers and Big Thunder.

I think I mispoke, let me clarify. The point I was trying to make wasn't that you can't see the railroad within Galaxy's Edge- but that guests on the railroad won't be able to see GE. Sure, the railroad isn't a huge part of any land except Critter country, but it's always provided guests on the railroad a tease of Fantasyland, Tomorrowland, Main Street, New Orleans Square, Frontierland, Adventureland and less so Toontown. Obviously, the amount of the land you could see varied greatly, but there was always at least a tease, or a shift of scenery. From what we've seen, the railroad will provide no glimpse of Galaxy's Edge- effectively leaving the new land out of the grand circle tour.

I do agree that thematically, it makes more sense to have it more integrated into Frontierland, and I'm glad they kept it along the river- I just wonder if there's some kind of balance they could have struck and found a way to provide a Galaxy's Edge tease on the railroad.

I DO think the execution of Galaxies Edge differs, but I think the disagreement comes down to the intent. Themed design has evolved somewhat. A transitional fence was good enough for Walt's day, now with modern parks they are attempting to aim higher. Maybe that's the totally wrong approach to Disneyland and that is totally open to debate. But they wanted the feel of the Radiator Springs Gate or Diagon Alley Reveals. It's not irreverence on their part to Disneyland Prime, it's just what the designers are trying to do with more modern projects. Again that's freely debatable whether or not that is disrespectful to Disneyland...

Disneyland is an inherently personal experience, and I'd bet every fan and Imagineer has a different answer on what makes Disneyland great and what a new land should be. For me, the GE/Harry Potter/Radiator Springs Racers approach- while excellent, doesn't necessarily work inside Disneyland. I think the approach would work great for DCA or a third park, space or logistical issues aside.

but I really have a hard time with people who poo poo Toontown as being 'totally ok'. Toontown does not measure up to any of the constantly roving goalposts people set other than it already existing.

I would certainly never make the claim that Toontown is Imagineering at it's best, or that it's of the same thematic quality. I just think that in the context of Disneyland park as a whole, Toontown's execution was more respectable and more fitting to the park itself. As you said- it's a different approach than what WDI wanted for Galaxy's Edge, I just don't agree with the GE approach in the context of Disneyland.

You make some excellent points, and obviously all we can do is speculate and make guesses until the land is, as they say, fully operational- I just haven't been excited about what I've seen so far in the context of Disneyland park. If the land was going somewhere else, I'd probably be as excited for it as the next Disney/Star Wars fan.

 

[SuddenStorm]

You’re all over the place. I’m not worried at all.

Not worried, either. Hope ALL the Annuual Passholders cancel their memberships and stay home eating popcorn.

If y'all wanted to address the points that have been made, I'd certainly be open to a discussion to help me understand why you have a different outlook on the project than myself, or to help y'all understand my position. There is definitely a good chance I've misunderstood what I've seen and heard about the project.

Or, coming to the openly biased "anti" thread and saying y'all aren't worried about the project with no additional explanation works fine too.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

My main issue with Star Wars Land pertaining only to the area itself and ignoring the ramifications for the rest of the resort is the lack of a non-thrill ride. That's assuming their "largest" ride through an "epic battle" on a "troop transport" will also be a thrill ride, which I'm just assuming. I was pleasantly surprised by the Avatar boat ride and that's a type of experience that is missing from Star Wars. It needs a tame more boring ride for those of us that don't want to be careened in front of projections. Disneyland has a lot of old farts that visit too, you know.

 

[britain]

My main issue with Star Wars Land pertaining only to the area itself and ignoring the ramifications for the rest of the resort is the lack of a non-thrill ride. That's assuming their "largest" ride through an "epic battle" on a "troop transport" will also be a thrill ride, which I'm just assuming. I was pleasantly surprised by the Avatar boat ride and that's a type of experience that is missing from Star Wars. It needs a tame more boring ride for those of us that don't want to be careened in front of projections. Disneyland has a lot of old farts that visit too, you know.

I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. It seems to me that they’ve been restraining themselves on the physical thrill factor on Rise of the Resistance. It would have been so easy to build a Star Wars coaster. Somewhere someone at Disney made the point that LOTS of kids below typical height requirements would want to go on “the Star Wars ride”.

If there are physical thrills in RotR, it won’t be more extreme than the drops on Pirates (if that).

As far as a truly mellow Star Wars ride... hope for a Degobah boat cruise in phase two I suppose.

 

[DanielBB8]

If y'all wanted to address the points that have been made, I'd certainly be open to a discussion to help me understand why you have a different outlook on the project than myself, or to help y'all understand my position. There is definitely a good chance I've misunderstood what I've seen and heard about the project.

Or, coming to the openly biased "anti" thread and saying y'all aren't worried about the project with no additional explanation works fine too.

Okay, I’ll bite. Your arguments are inconsistent. Saying Toontown is fine since it’s outside the berm and there’s a backstory that explains it away and then saying SWGE doesn’t apply since it IS OUTSIDE the berm. Well, that is just plain inconsistent. Also bringing up the 2 E-Tickets in New Orleans Sq where apparently nothing changes except when it does change quite a bit especially with Nightmare Before Christmas at Haunted Mansion and the many Pirates changes for both Political Correctness reason and The Movie is overlooking the obvious.

The Falcon ride will change especially with technology upgrades and Canon storyline updates. Why would that be a bad thing? Star Tours gotten better with the updates and upgrades.

Not having the train go through Galaxy Edge preserves the mystery and timeline unless you want to have another backstory to explain it away. Sigh. You can’t have everything, yet we are getting quite the additional to Disneyland that everyone wants.

 

[TROR]

If you can't have a steam powered locomotive going through a land at Disneyland, maybe it shouldn't be at Disneyland.

 

[DanielBB8]

If you can't have a steam powered locomotive going through a land at Disneyland, maybe it shouldn't be at Disneyland.

They aren’t going through the lands. They are on the outside perimeter. For long stretches, you’re on the outside paths and tunnels. You can barely see into the lands.

 

[britain]

If you can't have a steam powered locomotive going through a land at Disneyland, maybe it shouldn't be at Disneyland.

I like your logic, but what if you consider all of Galaxy’s Edge to be an attraction?

And there are some attractions that shouldn’t accommodate a steam train. Space Mountain for example, because you’re supposed to be in a time and place where a train wouldn’t be.

 

[TROR]

They aren’t going through the lands. They are on the outside perimeter. For long stretches, you’re on the outside paths and tunnels. You can barely see into the lands.

Semantics.

I like your logic, but what if you consider all of Galaxy’s Edge to be an attraction?

And there are some attractions that shouldn’t accommodate a steam train. Space Mountain for example, because you’re supposed to be in a time and place where a train wouldn’t be.

It's an interesting point of view, to name Galaxy's Edge an attraction, but in all actuality it still very much is a land within Disneyland and not an attraction. Though I'm not one to claim Galaxy's Edge to be an abomination to Disneyland (though I do have problems with it conceptually), I find the entire idea of making it a fully immersive land to be rather silly. I want to go to Disneyland and see the Matterhorn from just about anywhere or the train going around the berm. I want to see cast member name tags and I'm not concerned with Visa logos. The lengths they're going to make this a renaissance fair and not a theme park are ridiculous.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

And there are some attractions that shouldn’t accommodate a steam train. Space Mountain for example, because you’re supposed to be in a time and place where a train wouldn’t be.

I think I'm just getting too old to care about this sort of thing, but I disagree. Heck, at The Magic Kingdom (which, I know is Satan's rusty swing set compared to Disneyland), the train goes right alongside Space Mountain. You can even see yourself reflected in weird mirrors. In both versions, you see outside of the park. There's a kind of (*gulp*) magic to it. The train isn't bound by any theme just as the park itself isn't. It's all a strange hodgepodge, but somehow it works.

There are certainly oddities I'll nitpick, but nothing terribly offensive. For instance, Star Wars Land being an area only about Star Wars while all the other lands are more flexible and varied in content Vs. they have Optimus Prime boxing with Godzilla in Frontierland. Things could be a lot worse.

 

[TROR]

The railroad is the Americana theme which ties the park together

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

What about all those European fairy tales and the big mountain in Fantasyland?

 

[TROR]

What about all those European fairy tales and the big mountain in Fantasyland?

The classic Disney princesses and films are certainly part of Americana.