Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

[flynnibus]

Main St and the Hub blend together. Where does one end and the other begin?

They do not blend... the the view and staging at the town square end is very different. Again you confuse the transition to the hub area as if it’s synonymous with the entire thing. You don’t see the avenues of the spokes and their draws from Main Street except as you move into the hub. The castle of course being the big exception which we know was done to pull guests towards the center of the park.

Encouraging movement and interest is the goal... the visual weenie is just a tool to do so... not the requirement to check and require.

 

[flynnibus]

You're intentionally misrepresenting what myself and others are saying. All we're doing is saying ways that we've noticed WDI's approach has differed from what's been done at Disneyland in the past.

Noticing it’s differnt... is not what is happening (besides... that was told to everyone... not “noticed). It’s being referenced as why things are wrong and what is missing. That’s not spot the difference... that’s trying to grade the work based on its failure to COPY what was done previous. Not say “it doesn’t work” but literally trying to give it a failing grade because it doesn’t DUPLICATE past implementations.

It’s literally the worst type of grading...failing to understand how/why and instead found on following examples instead of the principles.

 

[Mac Tonight]

They do not blend... the the view and staging at the town square end is very different. Again you confuse the transition to the hub area as if it’s synonymous with the entire thing. You don’t see the avenues of the spokes and their draws from Main Street except as you move into the hub. The castle of course being the big exception which we know was done to pull guests towards the center of the park.

Encouraging movement and interest is the goal... the visual weenie is just a tool to do so... not the requirement to check and require.

That’s literally what I meant by saying Main St and the Hub blend together.

I’m not implying Main St IS the Hub. But it feeds into it.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Main St and the Hub blend together. Where does one end and the other begin?

Luckily, Disney has an official answer to this question... which is easily seen on the park map that anyone can pick up for free at both the turnstile, or if they don't read English, there's multilingual ones at City Hall... here's a photo of it:

If you look, the lands are color coded... and the hub is very much a part of Main Street. The other lands don't begin until their entrances... and the hub is not a separate entity from Main Street.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Luckily, Disney has an official answer to this question... which is easily seen on the park map that anyone can pick up for free at both the turnstile, or if they don't read English, there's multilingual ones at City Hall... here's a photo of it:

View attachment 381423

If you look, the lands are color coded... and the hub is very much a part of Main Street. The other lands don't begin until their entrances... and the hub is not a separate entity from Main Street.

Thanks for sharing

 

[SuddenStorm]

Noticing it’s differnt... is not what is happening (besides... that was told to everyone... not “noticed). It’s being referenced as why things are wrong and what is missing. That’s not spot the difference... that’s trying to grade the work based on its failure to COPY what was done previous. Not say “it doesn’t work” but literally trying to give it a failing grade because it doesn’t DUPLICATE past implementations.

It’s literally the worst type of grading...failing to understand how/why and instead found on following examples instead of the principles.

Yes, much of what we're discussing was told to us by Disney. Apologies for using the word 'notice'.
Speaking for myself only, I certainly wouldn't want Disney to copy what's been done before... though I would say I want them to respect what's been done before. Simple stuff like sinking the foundation for Space Mountain into the ground to help preserve the scale of Main Street and the castle, utilizing area music (which according to Micechat is absent from the land), or not depicting the land in as beat up of shape and maintaining a "clean" environment as seen in the rest of the park.

There's lots you can do to still make something 'feel' like Disneyland without copying what has come before, which is something I don't think anyone would have wanted.

I also understand why/how choices were made, I just disagree with them. Which is why there's a discussion.

 

[flynnibus]

That’s literally what I meant by saying Main St and the Hub blend together.

I’m not implying Main St IS the Hub. But it feeds into it.

Yeah but by that definition... so does Adventureland... Tomorrowland... etc

The hub as a design theme has leveraged the same 1800s gingerbread used at the end of main street.... but these key points about what you can see... are about the hub”s purpose of that transition land.

The hub was meant to be that palate cleanser and transition out of one to the more neutral middle.. and into the next.

That methodology was not used when they started expanding and adding direct interconnections between the lands. Instead using a cross fade kind of transition was a popular method... more like what we see at Frontierland boundaries today... etc.

 

[Mac Tonight]

Yeah but by that definition... so does Adventureland... Tomorrowland... etc

The hub as a design theme has leveraged the same 1800s gingerbread used at the end of main street.... but these key points about what you can see... are about the hub”s purpose of that transition land.

The hub was meant to be that palate cleanser and transition out of one to the more neutral middle.. and into the next.

That methodology was not used when they started expanding and adding direct interconnections between the lands. Instead using a cross fade kind of transition was a popular method... more like what we see at Frontierland boundaries today... etc.

Yeah, you know what man, sorry... I'm trying, but I'm having a hard time following this discussion anymore.

I respect your opinions on SWL, and whether you do mine or not is up to you. Have a good weekend.

 

[flynnibus]

Yeah, you know what man, sorry... I'm trying, but I'm having a hard time following this discussion anymore.

The hub performs differently than center st or town square...

The hub as you know it now is not how the park was setup initially or how land transistions were done. Later they added the direct movement between lands and more how to blur the edge and transistion from one to another. Some like along the roa it's hard for someone to even know they've crossed into another. It's more a mood than a boundary.

The point is "Disneyland" actually uses many techniques and not all transistions are even the same... and no one complains they don't fit or aren't disney.

Honestly it just feels like resistance to change vs what most of you are simply accustomed to. You've never experienced this much change to what you've known as one thing

It's different, yes. But different doesn't mean it's not Disneyland.

I found it funny someone referenced Adventureland as the pattern ge "lacks". You mean the biggest bottleneck and crowd pain point in the entire park??? Shocked disney didn't repeat that?

 

[Rich T]

And what in another setting would be considered run down junk or trash....

It’s one thing to say it doesn’t feel convincing to you (GE)... but to hang it on garbage and what is “real” or not when talking about a fictional universe... is funny. Somehow people keep forgetting Disney settings are not realistic at all. They are sanitized, romanticized versions.

Right, but I’m just talking about what I want in a theme park, and specifically Disneyland. This is just my opinion. There are a million ways they could have gone with a Star Wars land, and they went with garbage dumpy outpost. It’s interesting, but I’m not sure devoting such a HUGE space to something that looks intentionally run down, rusty and sad is a great long-term decision (though they can change that, having been wise enough to give the land a non-specific flexibility). The place doesn’t photograph well as an appealing theme park destination, and it doesn’t have the look the GP associates with SW. Non-hardcore fans only really perk up when they see the Falcon; it’s something they recognize. There’s all kinds of effort and care that went into GE, but I think they might have been a bit too smarty-pants and non-practical for their own good here. In the long run. I fully expect the area to be a mobbed nuthouse come July.

 

[Rich T]

I will say this; GE at least looks like an ugly dump *intentionally*, which is more than can be said about poor current Tomorrowland.

 

[flynnibus]

The Star Wars iconic interiors are the things that sell me the most... which is why I was more excited about the Star Wars starship experience.

Theme park volumes just make doing a ton of interiors hard and sticking to the right scale. The hotel size is easier to do.

This is why I think rotr will really sell people too... more time inside

 

[flynnibus]

There’s all kinds of effort and care that went into GE, but I think they might have been a bit too smarty-pants and non-practical for their own good here.

Yeah but that's also the mindset that killed a lot of the rebooted food offering in the parks because ... people just want burgers and fries...

Batuu is setup to be organic and look lived in rather than sterile and abusing the same icons over and over. It's a huge space so it takes a lot of ideas to fill that canvas.

I'm just happy we don't have the "book report" version of Star Wars.

 

[Rich T]

Yeah but that's also the mindset that killed a lot of the rebooted food offering in the parks because ... people just want burgers and fries...

Batuu is setup to be organic and look lived in rather than sterile and abusing the same icons over and over. It's a huge space so it takes a lot of ideas to fill that canvas.

I'm just happy we don't have the "book report" version of Star Wars.

I agree that non-book report is a good thing, and the project is admirably ambitious. So far, though, I think they set the dial too far into junkyard grunge, and I wouldn’t be surprised if, in the near future, Disney drops all pretense of timeline and backstory, prettifies the place a bit, puts English everywhere, has Han and Chewie meetin’ n’ greetin’, adds GP-recognizable SW icons all over, and launches a new ad campaign along the lines of, “It’s Star Wars like you Remember! Please Come Back!”

 

[flynnibus]

I do expect a lot of the "localization" to fade with time

 

[Rich T]

I do expect a lot of the "localization" to fade with time

GE is certainly a gutsy experiment for Disney. Some of it will work and some won’t. Watching it evolve will be interesting!

 

[flynnibus]

GE is certainly a gutsy experiment for Disney. Some of it will work and some won’t. Watching it evolve will be interesting!

and that's part of it to me... I want to encourage the risk taking.. even if it doesn't quite fit my tastes. They can always refine and tweak. So I may think something isn't my cup of tea... but it really needs to impact me negatively for me to campaign against it. Else.. we end up with burgers and fries all the time

 

[TROR]

Burgers are fries are better than a tortilla wrapped hot dog.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

I got the Hoth and Geonosis parts on Star Tours. I've been on Star Tours so many times in the past two weeks to get the prequel planets and it's been the exact same lame Disney versions every time.

 

[shambolicdefending]

Luckily, Disney has an official answer to this question... which is easily seen on the park map that anyone can pick up for free at both the turnstile, or if they don't read English, there's multilingual ones at City Hall... here's a photo of it:

View attachment 381423

If you look, the lands are color coded... and the hub is very much a part of Main Street. The other lands don't begin until their entrances... and the hub is not a separate entity from Main Street.

These maps always expose the odd creation that is Critter Country. A land that exists solely to give a loosely themed home for a single ride. I vote we give Splash Mountain a First Order re-skin and get it absorbed into GE!