Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
Marvel was acquired in 2009 and we just got official news of real park plans stateside in 2017...

Yeah...because they spent the past 8 years growing Marvel from a comic book company with an occasional ok movie to an entertainment behemoth. An accompanying theme park land is the last thing that should happen in that process.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Yeah...because they spent the past 8 years growing Marvel from a comic book company with an occasional ok movie to an entertainment behemoth. An accompanying theme park land is the last thing that should happen in that process.
Their plan for the MCU was already in motion pre-buyout.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
Marvel will decline in popularity after Avengers Infinity War. You cannot build up to something for years and then expect it to continue the same after you've reached the climax unless you have something greater up your sleeve. Does anyone think, though, that there is anything better to build towards than Thanos?

They honestly just need to stop building towards something for a bit. The MCU is going to eventually become a victim of its own success if they don't lay off the gas soon. Comic book characters and super hero fantasy will always be popular, but they're eventually going to need scale back with the MCU stuff before people get really tired of it.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
Universal’s Islands of Adventure waves hello. The numbers weren’t there when they built Marvel.

Yeah...but that was just a licensing deal based on the comics and singularly focused on a fairly basic theme park area (w/ some great rides). Difference is that Disney owns Marvel its entirity and had the opportunity to first try and grow their product into something significantly larger w/ far more dimension before developing their theme park plans.

My point really was taking 8 years to do all this isn't all that long in the grand spectrum of things, so I would not say they were just sitting on things, to paraphrase the earlier post. Focusing this time on growing the product was wise as it has given them much larger arsenal to choose from when developing a theme park area from what they had when they acquired it.
 

George Lucas on a Bench

Well-Known Member
Marvel Super Hero "Island" is almost perfectly designed and what many people are expecting Disney to just copy for a Marvel land. It's a relatively small area with a crowd-pleasing roller coaster and next-gen thrill ride, places to shop and eat and characters roaming about. All I would really change are the giant billboards of characters all over the place. Well, I also would have enclosed the second half of Hulk since it goes from breathtaking launch over lagoon with insane inversions to Six Flags "we just built this on a parking lot and named it after a comic book character" status.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
Marvel Super Hero "Island" is almost perfectly designed and what many people are expecting Disney to just copy for a Marvel land. It's a relatively small area with a crowd-pleasing roller coaster and next-gen thrill ride, places to shop and eat and characters roaming about. All I would really change are the giant billboards of characters all over the place. Well, I also would have enclosed the second half of Hulk since it goes from breathtaking launch over lagoon with insane inversions to Six Flags "we just built this on a parking lot and named it after a comic book character" status.

Yeah, honestly, that's the thing I still wonder about... what exactly does a new Marvel land look like if not like IOA's version? That said, while Spiderman is a great attraction from top to bottom, the rest of it is honestly pretty generic and just a notch above Six Flags w/ elements of USH's Citywalk.

For DCA -- will there be some cool unique locale that can unify all these different characters? Maybe GotG: MB is a clue to what they're thinking. I think the only way to avoid going the boring city theme route is to have it set on a different planet/world and GotG is really one of just a few Marvel franchises (with existing movies) that could help anchor that kind of move.
 

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
Yeah, honestly, that's the thing I still wonder about... what exactly does a new Marvel land look like if not like IOA's version? That said, while Spiderman is a great attraction from top to bottom, the rest of it is honestly pretty generic and just a notch above Six Flags w/ elements of USH's Citywalk.

For DCA -- will there be some cool unique locale that can unify all these different characters? Maybe GotG: MB is a clue to what they're thinking. I think the only way to avoid going the boring city theme route is to have it set on a different planet/world and GotG is really one of just a few Marvel franchises (with existing movies) that could help anchor that kind of move.
lol, nothing says "California" more than a land in the park themed around a different planet/world. ;)
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
lol, nothing says "California" more than a land in the park themed around a different planet/world. ;)

Eh, I may be in the minority, but I'd love nothing more for them to drop the California from DCA. Being restricted to theming around a single state is honestly the dumbest thing ever. They should have walked away from that (rather than coming up with a new supporting story) back in 2012.
 

Hatbox Ghostbuster

Well-Known Member
Eh, I may be in the minority, but I'd love nothing more for them to drop the California from DCA. Being restricted to theming around a single state is honestly the dumbest thing ever. They should have walked away from that (rather than coming up with a new supporting story) back in 2012.
I know. The debate over keeping or tossing "California" from DCA as a theme is no stranger to these boards.
I daresay if they went even slightly the "alien" route for MarvelLand, they'd pretty much have to get rid of it.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
I know. The debate over keeping or tossing "California" from DCA as a theme is no stranger to these boards.
I daresay if they went even slightly the "alien" route for MarvelLand, they'd pretty much have to get rid of it.

They could still get around it using a cool portal mechanism to explain why you're suddenly in an alien land --they'd kind of need it either way, California or not.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
That's the point of a theme; to restrict. If you don't want any restriction on what can and cannot be built, you don't want a theme park.

I never said there shouldn't be restrictions, guidelines, or any semblance of a rulebook to abide by.. I said theming around a singular STATE was dumb and I stand by that.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
So what would you prefer the theme to be then?

Anything other than the state of California is a good start. What are the driving themes of any of today's theme parks outside of DAK and TDS? The studios parks have no studios (other than USH), magic kingdom style parks and IOA are catch all's for just about anything (today, yesterday, fantasy, and new orleans..and cartoons?), EPCOT had good intentions initially (even if it was the accidental merging of two completely different themes) but has since lost any vision....

Not here to play armchair imagineer at the moment, but just saying... they painted themselves into a corner and I hope they find their way out of it.
 

FerretAfros

Well-Known Member
With 24 hour event it sounds like you were not there, unlike myself who was there for almost the entire 24 hours. Attractions during the day were not manageable. It was a mad house by 9-10am. The only time it became manageable was after all the nighttime entertainment was over and people left around 11pm. And even then new people were not let in until after 3am. So those manageable times you spoke of was when the park was empty from 11pm to 3am before they let new guests in from 3am-6am.

Also where are these large scale waiting areas you speak of in Disneyland? There is only a finite amount of space at Disneyland on Main St, Hub, and NOS for people to stand. This is not extra capacity. This entire space is counted toward max park capacity.

From what I can tell you seem more experienced with WDW and how Magic Kingdom is setup, its not the same at Disneyland. There is not some large scale waiting area to throw extra bodies. In fact they had to build overflow paths behind the Main St shops just so people could get in and out when Main St is blocked during nighttime entertainment. And if you've ever been during nighttime entertainment you'd know you can't get to certain areas of the park because they direct you away.
I'm a former DL Passhole who visited the parks more-or-less weekly for several years, far exceeding the dozen-or-so times I've been to WDW. I know people who have worked in operations, both on the ground and at the planning level in TDA. I'm plenty familiar with how DLR operates, handles crowds, and the specific peculiarities it has to deal with.

Those large scale waiting areas include the ROA riverbanks (holding around 9,500 guests), the hub (roughly 12,000), Main Street and the parade route (which vary, depending on the setup). Yes, using those areas bottlenecks the walkways for people passing through and create unique traffic patterns. Yes, there are other complications. But that's not the point.

The point is that they take the otherwise-uneventful walkways and turn them into places that people want to spend a large amount of time. When you have 20,000 people waiting for shows, they free up space for additional people in the rides, queues, restaurants, and shops, to get their 7.2-ish "things" accomplished in order for them to enjoy their day. Yes, it may take slightly longer for people to reach their ultimate destination through the crowds (I've often gotten routed in odd ways, but never been unable to reach any location in the park), but ultimately it's a wash (or even advantage) because the queues are so much shorting during those times, even though more people are in the park than earlier in the day

Disney knows that they technically can fit more people in the park, but they also know that once they drop below that certain number, satisfaction and per-guest-spending drop dramatically. Happy guests spend money and tell their friends to visit the parks; angry guests don't spend money and tell people to stay away. Disney knows that they can get more out of the park by keeping guests happy, which means artificially limiting the capacity and adjusting it throughout the day to reflect the number of things-to-do at any given point (whether that means planned refurbishments, additional entertainment, or unplanned downtime)

Anyway, my original point still stands: the 24 hour event did *not* use the "normal" park capacity that they would use on a typical peak day, because they knew that people weren't there for a normal experience. Disney can and often does limit entries far below what the Fire Marshal permits. I don't doubt that the Fire Marshal was involved during that event, but I also know that they don't allow nearly that many people into the park on a normal day, because on a normal day they care more about guest satisfaction metrics than they care about letting as many people as possible see the premiere of new entertainment
 

George Lucas on a Bench

Well-Known Member
Those numbers don't lie. The Magic Kingdom, Disneyland and Tokyo Disneyland are all the most-visited theme parks on Earth. The people want Disneyland-style theme parks, not failed movie studios, weird sci-fi world's fair things, a glorified zoo etc. Just look at how Disney has been forced to basically reinvent and reinvigorate all the parks where they attempted to get fancy and break away from the original formula. They don't need to drop millions on The Magic Kingdom, for instance. The people will come regardless. It's the classic Disney drug soup they demand. Disneyland's Star Wars Land is an exception to the rule.
 

TROR

Well-Known Member
Anything other than the state of California is a good start. What are the driving themes of any of today's theme parks outside of DAK and TDS? The studios parks have no studios (other than USH), magic kingdom style parks and IOA are catch all's for just about anything (today, yesterday, fantasy, and new orleans..and cartoons?), EPCOT had good intentions initially (even if it was the accidental merging of two completely different themes) but has since lost any vision....

Not here to play armchair imagineer at the moment, but just saying... they painted themselves into a corner and I hope they find their way out of it.
I've always hated the fact DHS has studio in its name, but when it was MGM, it did in fact include a working studio. Even USO had a working studio at one point, I know, but am not sure if it still does. The theme, however, of these parks is a celebration of movies and the magic of movie making. That doesn't mean "if it's based off a movie, it fits!" Fast and the Furious Supercharge is not justified just because it's a movie, but The Great Movie Ride is a wonderful example of a celebration of cinema. In the case of MGM/DHS, the direct theme is "a Hollywood that never was - and always will be."

Magic Kingdom parks are directly tied, at least with Disneyland and Magic Kingdom, to the theme of Americana. I've debated this one endlessly and would rather not do so again so please don't argue against it.

I know little of Islands of Adventure, but from what I gather it's based on literature? Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Marvel comics, etc.? Am I wrong on this?

The idea, though, that California is a bad idea for a theme is one I don't personally understand. This is state, while it has many faults (no pun intended), has a rich culture and history behind it. Would you care to explain more on why you think it is a bad theme beyond "we're in California, why go to a park about California," because DCA does not represent modern California anymore, that was mostly changed in the remodels between 2007 and 2015.
 

dweezil78

Well-Known Member
I've always hated the fact DHS has studio in its name, but when it was MGM, it did in fact include a working studio. Even USO had a working studio at one point, I know, but am not sure if it still does. The theme, however, of these parks is a celebration of movies and the magic of movie making. That doesn't mean "if it's based off a movie, it fits!" Fast and the Furious Supercharge is not justified just because it's a movie, but The Great Movie Ride is a wonderful example of a celebration of cinema. In the case of MGM/DHS, the direct theme is "a Hollywood that never was - and always will be."

Magic Kingdom parks are directly tied, at least with Disneyland and Magic Kingdom, to the theme of Americana. I've debated this one endlessly and would rather not do so again so please don't argue against it.

I know little of Islands of Adventure, but from what I gather it's based on literature? Jurassic Park, Harry Potter, Marvel comics, etc.? Am I wrong on this?

The idea, though, that California is a bad idea for a theme is one I don't personally understand. This is state, while it has many faults (no pun intended), has a rich culture and history behind it. Would you care to explain more on why you think it is a bad theme beyond "we're in California, why go to a park about California," because DCA does not represent modern California anymore, that was mostly changed in the remodels between 2007 and 2015.

Not denying that all these places don't begin with some kind of thematic unifier and playbooks, but none rarely stay the course over time. Both studio parks started with real studios and a vision of showing guests how movies/tv were made and both have almost completely abandoned the concept. Sure, there are attractions based on movies and tv properties, but that's the norm for every theme park now.

Also, just because you have a strong POV that you've defended in some other posts doesn't give you the right to tell someone they can't debate you on it or that you are right. Lucky for you I'm at work right now! ;)

Re: California, again, I just think it is too limiting in scope if there is any desire to integrate popular entertainment franchises as both Disney and park goers want to see.
 

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