Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

[mickEblu]

I think the same 90% of us would have been alright with the subs just going away completely in 1998.

Really? I only have fleeting memories of the original subs as I only rode once or twice when I was a kid. I remember the octopus and a mermaid. But most of all I remember it not feeling like an underwater cartoon. With that said, it definitely wasn’t one of my families favorites or we would have rode more often.

 

[mickEblu]

I think the same 90% of us would have been alright with the subs just going away completely in 1998.

The lagoon too?

 

[Disney Irish]

Really? I only have fleeting memories of the original subs as I only rode once or twice when I was a kid. I remember the octopus and a mermaid. But most of all I remember it not feeling like an underwater cartoon. With that said, it definitely wasn’t one of my families favorites or we would have rode more often.

I don't think it was many families favorites. It was, and still is, claustrophobic, hot, and plain uncomfortable.

The lagoon too?

If it meant something so much better, yeah. I mean the lagoon is nice, but it takes up a lot of real estate that could be used for a better attraction.

 

[mickEblu]

I don't think it was many families favorites. It was, and still is, claustrophobic, hot, and plain uncomfortable.



If it meant something so much better, yeah. I mean the lagoon is nice, but it takes up a lot of real estate that could be used for a better attraction.

I’ve just gotten so used to the lagoon next to the Matterhorn, it would be weird if a body of water wasn’t there in some form. Maybe it could be incorporated into a new attraction.

 

[mickEblu]

For anyone who cares, word on the street (Reddit) is garland wires have been spotted running across Main Street. I guess I’ll use this opportunity to say I was at DL last weekend and they truly hit the Christmas overlay out of the park.

 

[Disney Irish]

I’ve just gotten so used to the lagoon next to the Matterhorn, it would be weird if a body of water wasn’t there in some form. Maybe it could be incorporated into a new attraction.

The current lagoon just take up too much of a footprint.

I'd be alright if they carved out a small portion of the land next to Matterhorn where the queue and walkway go now. Then create a lagoon of its own. Then have the queue and walkway pass next to it on a similar path that the monorail takes now. Then use the rest of the land for something new, this would of course include Autopia going away.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Maybe I just don’t understand the demand for Star Wars but if the new land increases capacity by say 15k and attendance only rises 15k per day then it’s a wash. If the boost in attendance doesn’t rise too dramatically over the new added capacity (which I don’t think it will on average) then I think we may actually experience some parts of the resort be more pleasant. Especially DCA.

The closest comparison we have is Harry Potter. The first land at IOA raised attendance by nearly 2 million the first calendar year (Those lands opened up halfway through the year.) Subsequent lands at USO and Hollywood was roughly 1 million bump (again for half a year.) If you double those numbers for the first year of the land opening you can see a bump of roughly 4 million or 2 million in their first year of operation. On the higher end of that range you are looking at approximately another 10K per day in the park.

My concern is not necessarily the ride wait times at other attractions, but the additional stress on the infrastructure, the crowd control getting people to the back of the park, and the entertainment. The fireworks, Fantasmic!, and parades will not be increasing their viewing capacity and most people will still want to see those even if their main reason from coming is GE. It really isn't a good idea for the park to increase the number of people they let into the park.

It’s just hard for me to believe someone won’t enjoy Space Mountain or Peter Pan as much because the thought of SWL will suddenly cross their mind and ruin it. To me the fact that SWL exists at DL will never effect me nearly as much as the crowds

It will be interesting to see. I can say that having visited Universal Studios Florida before and after Potter, my opinion on the rest of the park changed. Diagon Alley in particular is on such a different level than the rest of that park, I didn't really want to spend that much time in any other land other than Diagon Alley. The nostalgia is really strong with Disneyland so it maybe different though.

 

[dweezil78]

The closest comparison we have is Harry Potter.

Just a friendly reminder -- as this is something that people often lose sight of -- Harry Potter was originally a Disney project until they walked away from it when JK Rowling wanted full creative control. A lot of what ultimately was built at IOA (even down to the use of the kuka arms) was based on Disney's concepts. The idea of a singular IP project was something Disney was heavily pursuing before it happened at Universal.

 

[spacemt354]

Just a friendly reminder -- as this is something that people often lose sight of -- Harry Potter was originally a Disney project until they walked away from it when JK Rowling wanted full creative control. A lot of what ultimately was built at IOA (even down to the use of the kuka arms) was based on Disney's concepts. The idea of a singular IP project was something Disney was heavily pursuing before it happened at Universal.

Disney wanted a Toy Story Midway Mania style ride with wands for Hollywood Studios - nothing to the expanse of a full land. They let Rowling walk and go to Universal who decided to go all out and create an entire land (now several of them) .

Much of Disney's push for IP lands has been a reflexive response to the WWoHP in Universal. Hence the fan phrase 'Potter Swatter' - defining a move in response to Potter.

 

[dweezil78]

Disney wanted a Toy Story Midway Mania style ride with wands for Hollywood Studios - nothing to the expanse of a full land. They let Rowling walk and go to Universal who decided to go all out and create an entire land (now several of them) .

That is 100% not true. There were definitely far larger plans on the table and Tony Baxter has alluded to this numerous times (as have other sources).

 

[TROR]

From everything I've read, Harry Potter was set to be a subland in Fantasyland and would have been based off the books rather than the films.

 

[spacemt354]

That is 100% not true. There were definitely far larger plans on the table and Tony Baxter has alluded to this numerous times (as have other sources).

I've heard differently. JK wanted more control than Disney was willing to give...negotiations went on for about three years but Disney didn't budge on her high budget demands...she went to Universal who accepted her grand plans and the rest is history.

You're really stuck on this illusion that Disney has been planning singular IP lands for years, yet there is very little evidence to that fact prior to the late 2000s/early 2010s when it has become the new fad of themed entertainment and Disney saw how they screwed up with underestimating Potter, now in pursuit for a 'Potter Swatter'

 

[spacemt354]

Just a friendly reminder -- as this is something that people often lose sight of -- Harry Potter was originally a Disney project until they walked away from it when JK Rowling wanted full creative control. A lot of what ultimately was built at IOA (even down to the use of the kuka arms) was based on Disney's concepts. The idea of a singular IP project was something Disney was heavily pursuing before it happened at Universal.

I've heard differently. JK wanted more control than Disney was willing to give...negotiations went on for about three years but Disney didn't budge on her high budget demands...she went to Universal who accepted her grand plans and the rest is history.

You're really stuck on this illusion that Disney has been planning singular IP lands for years, yet there is very little evidence to that fact prior to the late 2000s/early 2010s when it has become the new fad of themed entertainment and Disney saw how they screwed up with underestimating Potter, now in pursuit for a 'Potter Swatter'

Did a bit of digging on this subject. Neither of these descriptions are really accurate, and with that said I'll walk back the tsmm style attraction - as it has most certainly circulated on this forum, but I couldn't find verified source of it, so until then - consider it a rumor.

The gist of it was (from verified insiders), Disney wanted Potter. Badly. Rowling's demands were too high, somewhat unrealistic, Disney offered counter suggestions, she walked, and they let her walk. She then went to Universal, semi-lowered her demands, but not by much, and Universal went with it and its what you see today in IoA.

Disney (WDW) didn't expect Hogsmeade to be a success, and were caught off guard with their heads in the sand with Diagon Alley, and now, much of their project motives are reflexive responses to Potter's popularity (as I was saying before) Hopefully that clears it up.

 

[mickEblu]

The closest comparison we have is Harry Potter. The first land at IOA raised attendance by nearly 2 million the first calendar year (Those lands opened up halfway through the year.) Subsequent lands at USO and Hollywood was roughly 1 million bump (again for half a year.) If you double those numbers for the first year of the land opening you can see a bump of roughly 4 million or 2 million in their first year of operation. On the higher end of that range you are looking at approximately another 10K per day in the park.

My concern is not necessarily the ride wait times at other attractions, but the additional stress on the infrastructure, the crowd control getting people to the back of the park, and the entertainment. The fireworks, Fantasmic!, and parades will not be increasing their viewing capacity and most people will still want to see those even if their main reason from coming is GE. It really isn't a good idea for the park to increase the number of people they let into the park.



It will be interesting to see. I can say that having visited Universal Studios Florida before and after Potter, my opinion on the rest of the park changed. Diagon Alley in particular is on such a different level than the rest of that park, I didn't really want to spend that much time in any other land other than Diagon Alley. The nostalgia is really strong with Disneyland so it maybe different though.

Good point on the entertainment but I think as long as SWL remains open at night and is guzzling a good portion of those extra 10k visitors it ll be ok. I wonder how much will capacity go up at DL when SWL opens? Do we know this or have any educated guesses?

Another thing to think about, DCA didn’t kill break Disneyland’s infrastructure right? Surely a whole theme park next door and the guests that brings would cause more wear and tear then a new land right? Well maybe not with DCA 1.0 but as the park evolved.

 

[180º]

Sorry to go off topic, but I have a beef with the new Railroad script.

1. The narrator claims Splash Mountain is rumored to be the location of "the one and only laughin' place." If you watch the film, or heck, just ride the ride, you would know that everybody has a laughin' place. There is no single laughin' place.

2. This is really petty, but I dislike how the narrator points out that the stretch around the Rivers of America is his faaaaavorite part of the journey, and proceeds to list off the trees, the rocks, etc. All I hear is, "We spend a whole lot of money on this! See? We built rocks and waterfalls and everything!"

3. The line about moving from the Front-ier to a different kind of ear (The kind you find on Mickey and Minnie Mouse) is so clunky, and the delivery on it is bad. My brain keeps hearing, "We're now moving from the Fron-tier to a different kind of tear: The kind you find on Mickey and Minnie Mouse!" Maybe it's just because you'll also find t-ears on me if I spend enough time in Toontown. Anyway, at best, the line is uncl-ear.

 

[spacemt354]

Good point on the entertainment but I think as long as SWL remains open at night and is guzzling a good portion of those extra 10k visitors it ll be ok. I wonder how much will capacity go up at DL when SWL opens? Do we know this or have any educated guesses?

Another thing to think about, DCA didn’t kill break Disneyland’s infrastructure right? Surely a whole theme park next door and the guests that brings would cause more wear and tear then a new land right? Well maybe not with DCA 1.0 but as the park evolved.

Just educated guesses but seeing how much New Fantasyland expansion helped increase capacity at the Magic Kingdom - I could only imagine that capacity would increase by a decent amount.

DCA is a bit different I think. For the sake of example (*these aren't actual numbers, just simple ones), let's say DL's capacity is 10,000 and it averages 9,000 guests. DCA is built next door, adding a capacity of 5,000 so the two theme parks have a total combined capacity of 15,000.

But you can't be in DL and DCA at the same time, so even if you park hop, the majority of that added capacity will be impacted in DCA and not DL, since that is the 'new' offering. You might have 14,500 guests on property now, but only 9,500 are in DL and the additional 5,000 in DCA.

Now say a new land with a popular IP is added to DL with a capacity of 1,000. DL's capacity goes from 10,000 to 11,000... but now DL's crowds increase from 9,500 to 11,000, because DL has the 'new' offering. This creates a larger and more direct crowd growth than an indirect overflow of DCA.

The park will be more crowded for sure, but as someone on the east coast used to WDW line lengths...crowds won't bother me

 

[No Name]

I thought the proposal was Harry Potter Midway Mania and a meet and greet. Maybe not.

I don't think not getting the rights was a mistake we can blame them for. It's the fact that JK pushed Universal to such high standards that really made the difference. Universal had been licensing popular IPs since the dawn of time and hadn't seen similar success, because the attractions were lower in quality.

 

[spacemt354]

I thought the proposal was Harry Potter Midway Mania and a meet and greet. Maybe not.

Honestly, I thought that was the case too. It's been said a lot around the forum - I went back to double check if any insiders confirmed it, because it was called out as not true - I couldn't find one from the trusted insiders (though I could have easily missed it) so I can't say it was any more than rumor.

 

[No Name]

Honestly, I thought that was the case too. It's been said a lot around the forum - I went back to double check if any insiders confirmed it, because it was called out as not true - I couldn't find one (though I could have easily missed it) so I can't say it was any more than rumor.

The timing is right. Also it seems like a Jay Rasulo thing.

Good point on the entertainment but I think as long as SWL remains open at night and is guzzling a good portion of those extra 10k visitors it ll be ok. I wonder how much will capacity go up at DL when SWL opens? Do we know this or have any educated guesses?

Another thing to think about, DCA didn’t kill break Disneyland’s infrastructure right? Surely a whole theme park next door and the guests that brings would cause more wear and tear then a new land right? Well maybe not with DCA 1.0 but as the park evolved.

Disneyland Park's attendance dropped by over a million the year DCA opened. I guess in the long term it might raise attendance though.

 

[mickEblu]

Just educated guesses but seeing how much New Fantasyland expansion helped increase capacity at the Magic Kingdom - I could only imagine that capacity would increase by a decent amount.

DCA is a bit different I think. For the sake of example (*these aren't actual numbers, just simple ones), let's say DL's capacity is 10,000 and it averages 9,000 guests. DCA is built next door, adding a capacity of 5,000 so the two theme parks have a total combined capacity of 15,000.

But you can't be in DL and DCA at the same time, so even if you park hop, the majority of that added capacity will be impacted in DCA and not DL, since that is the 'new' offering. You might have 14,500 guests on property now, but only 9,500 are in DL and the additional 5,000 in DCA.

Now say a new land with a popular IP is added to DL with a capacity of 1,000. DL's capacity goes from 10,000 to 11,000... but now DL's crowds increase from 9,500 to 11,000, because DL has the 'new' offering. This creates a larger and more direct crowd growth than an indirect overflow of DCA.

The park will be more crowded for sure, but as someone on the east coast used to WDW line lengths...crowds won't bother me

I’m not sure I’m following (and I’m also running after my 2 year old )

I wasn’t saying DCA added capacity at DL. I’m saying that attendance increased at DL because of DCA (as well as the Grand Californian and DTD) and that that increase didn’t break Disneyland’s infrastructure. I would imagine that Disneyland has seen more guests due to DCA being next door than they will see from Star Wars Land. Granted DCA added a lot of capacity but a lot of those guests do a few of their favorites at DCA and seem to spend the majority of the day at DL.