Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

[dweezil78]

These are contradicting statements.

If something if a drastic change in direction for the park, it can't also go "above and beyond" to ensure it blends in with Walt's 'charming little park' - then it wouldn't be so drastic of a change, eh?

There will be a discrepancy that some people look beyond and don't care about (like yourself) and others that might be a bit turned off by it and the potential direction it might lead for the park. As long as you recognize that, there really isn't much more to discuss.

I feel like you understand what I am saying, but in case not, I am happy to clarify. There's a massive new immersive land, setting all kinds of new precedents for scope and design within Disneyland. That is drastic and disruptive. Whether you think it's good or bad is subjective, but still drastic and disruptive.

On the flipside -- the new train/river work and redo of Big Thunder Trail intended to blend in with the parts of Star Wars that will be visible in other parts of the park has been (at least IMO and in the opinion of many others), extremely well and carefully done when they could have just as easily taken many shortcuts that required far less budget.

Just because something is drastic and disruptive does not mean it can't live in harmony with what's come before it.

 

[spacemt354]

I feel like you understand what I am saying, but in case not, I am happy to clarify. There's a massive new immersive land, setting all kinds of new precedents for scope and design within Disneyland. That is drastic and disruptive. Whether you think it's good or bad is subjective, but still drastic and disruptive.

On the flipside -- the new train/river work and redo of Big Thunder Trail intended to blend in with the parts of Star Wars that will be visible in other parts of the park has been (at least IMO and in the opinion of many others), extremely well and carefully done when they could have just as easily taken many shortcuts that required far less budget.

Just because something is drastic and disruptive does not mean it can't live in harmony with what's come before it.

Disruptive means disharmony. Saying something is disruptive, yet still in harmony, is oxymoronic.

I don't need you to clarify anything. I just don't view the changes the same as you nor through the same rose colored lens as you do. But I think I'll survive.

 

[dweezil78]

Disruptive means disharmony. Saying something is disruptive, yet still in harmony, is oxymoronic.

I don't need you to clarify anything. I just don't view the changes the same as you nor through the same rose colored lens as you do. But I think I'll survive.

Fair enough. You are misinterpreting my use of the word disruptive though. I do not mean disruptive to the flow/state of the park. I mean disruptive in a design/business sense, again, not to anything related to the guest experience. Thank you for the civil debate, enjoyed it!

 

[Disney Irish]

Your argument is...Disneyland hasn't always been #2 in attendance, because in 2 out of the last 10 years...it was #3 in the world - therefore it isn't as popular?

That isn't what I said, did I even use popular in my statement, no. What I was just providing was just a counter point to yours of you saying the Disneyland is #2 in terms of attendance. It hasn't always been #2 is all I was saying. That is no way indicating that Disneyland isn't popular. We all know it is. What I think we should be discussed though is what that attendance makeup really is comprised of, mostly local APs. Local APs are known to be nostalgia addicts. If DL was any other park but a locals park and one that Walt touched, it would have been changed many times over by now.

When Disneyland holds the most amount of E-tickets in any Disney Park, and the most amount of attractions, and a park next door that needed some serious help, it doesn't need a new E-ticket ever 5 years in order to remain popular. That being said, I'm not against Disneyland expanding. I'm not against IPs (even a larger Star Wars presence) in Disneyland. I'm not even against the new 'IP war' even though new attractions such as Mystic Manor in 2013 have been praised.

Again, you go back to the "popular" argument. No one is saying that DL isn't popular. We all concede that DL is popular, so drop that from your argument.

However you're right, a new E-Ticket doesn't need to be added every 5 years, but not adding one for over 20 years? That is a long time. A long time of stagnation. A long time without something new being added on the level of Indy. A long time of just resting on 60 years of laurels. Stating another way, more has been taken away from DL than has been replaced. So they had to do something. And because of the era we are in, as stated previously IP war era, it was going to be IP based and why not the biggest IP of all time. From what I can see of the pictures and in person it looks to like it'll blend in well with its surroundings. Its not even done yet, so we'll have to wait and see how it looks when completed. But so far I'm not worried other than the potential crowd issues.

My concerns rests solely on how this new land will look in comparison to the rest of the park, and how the inevitable success of this land will impact the rest of the park in the future. Maybe you aren't up to date with the happenings at WDW, but classic attractions are being IP overlayed left and right because, hey, its an 'IP war era' -- Forcing in a 14 acre land inconsistent with the rest of Disneyland tells me that same mindset has made its way over to Disneyland, especially when you look at the state of DCA.

I'm fully aware of what is happening over in WDW with the overlays. I'm not new to this forum nor the world of Disney.

As for DL, you are not going to get the complete overlay with IPs. You may have seasonal offerings such as Hyperspace Mountain. Or adding IP sprinkling such as Small World or Pirates. But a complete overlay similar to ToT/GotG in DCA of UoE/GotG in Epcot, that won't happen in DL.

 

[spacemt354]

But a complete overlay similar to ToT/GotG in DCA of UoE/GotG in Epcot, that won't happen in DL.

It already did happen.

Mission: Breakout won a Thea Award...it is inevitable (and sad) at this point.

 

[dweezil78]

It already did happen.

Mission: Breakout won a Thea Award...it is inevitable (and sad) at this point.

To be fair though, the subs sat dormant for nearly a decade first before Nemo came along and allowed them to breathe new life into the attraction and re-open it.

 

[Disney Irish]

It already did happen.

Mission: Breakout won a Thea Award...it is inevitable (and sad) at this point.

Lets be realistic and honest, the change to Nemo wasn't any great loss.

GotG is in DCA, so that doesn't affect DL itself.

 

[spacemt354]

Lets be realistic and honest, the change to Nemo wasn't any great loss.

GotG is in DCA, so that doesn't affect DL itself.

To be fair though, the subs sat dormant for nearly a decade first before Nemo came along and allowed them to breathe new life into the attraction and re-open it.

What you said was factually incorrect though so I pointed it out.

Saying it wasn't a great loss or defending the move is a different argument than if it would 'never' happen in DL as IrishGuy claimed

 

[Disney Irish]

What you said was factually incorrect though so I pointed it out.

Saying it wasn't a great loss or defending the move is a different argument than if it would 'never' happen in DL as IrishGuy claimed

So you are right, one single time it has happened at DL 10 years ago. My feeling is they won't do it again, or make it very rare in DL, as they take more care with DL than they do with other parks. Which is why its taken 30+ years to get this expansion and 20+ years since a new E-Ticket was introduced.

 

[dweezil78]

What you said was factually incorrect though so I pointed it out.

Saying it wasn't a great loss or defending the move is a different argument than if it would 'never' happen in DL as IrishGuy claimed

Hey don't drag me into this... I didn't make any claims about overlays! Just pointing out the subs were already closed for a long time and had long since been declared DOA.

 

[spacemt354]

Hey don't drag me into this... I didn't make any claims about overlays! Just pointing out the subs were already closed for a long time and had long since been declared DOA.

Then dont reply? You replied with a response irrelevant to the claim, which is what i pointed out, not to say that you made any assertions otherwise. Read again.

 

[dweezil78]

Then dont reply? You replied with a response irrelevant to the claim, which is what i pointed out, not to say that you made any assertions otherwise. Read again.

You're taking my feigned outrage too seriously.

 

[Disney Irish]

Just pointing out the subs were already closed for a long time and had long since been declared DOA.

But its a good point, a long dead attraction brought back with a new theme really isn't an overlay. Its really a old dead attraction made new. If they had brought back the subs to its original state, and then switched to Nemo after a period of time, that would be an overlay.

 

[mickEblu]

Main Street USA
Fantasyland
Adventureland
Frontierland
New Orleans Square
Star Wars: Galaxies Edge
Tomorrowland
Mickeys Toontown
Critter Country

Which one doesn’t belong?

I mean all you ll have to do is look at the park map to see that SWL isn’t a great fit at DL. They created a park within a park which doesn’t jive with DL’s flow but at least it doesn’t intrude either. Anyway, I’ve accepted the location and think that it’s the best possible scenario at DL. Still Not a fan of having a single IP land at DL. 14 acres at that. With that said I’m still very excited to see what these new high tech attractions will be all about.

Just curious, aside from the unpleasant crowds that SWL will bring to the park, is anyone here saying that just the thought of SWL existing in DL will change their experience at the park? This is where I think it helps to be practical. We do tend to spend a lot of time discussing issues/ details here (after all that is what this forum is for) myself included, however most of the time these things don’t carry the same type of weight when you re at the park enjoying yourself. It’s just hard for me to believe someone won’t enjoy Space Mountain or Peter Pan as much because the thought of SWL will suddenly cross their mind and ruin it. To me the fact that SWL exists at DL will never effect me nearly as much as the crowds. That’s something that truly impacts the park experience. And yes I know SWL will make the parks crowded more often for the first couple years or so. But I don’t think It will be as bad as most fear. Maybe I just don’t understand the demand for Star Wars but if the new land increases capacity by say 15k and attendance only rises 15k per day then it’s a wash. If the boost in attendance doesn’t rise too dramatically over the new added capacity (which I don’t think it will on average) then I think we may actually experience some parts of the resort be more pleasant. Especially DCA.

 

[spacemt354]

You're taking my feigned outrage too seriously.

Nope, it was innocuous. Just off topic.

So you are right, one single time it has happened at DL 10 years ago. My feeling is they won't do it again, or make it very rare in DL, as they take more care with DL than they do with other parks. Which is why its taken 30+ years to get this expansion and 20+ years since a new E-Ticket was introduced.

Thanks for admitting you misspoke.

Youre free to feel however you like, Im just a bit tired of people who cant just accept that otherd can see the parks differently, and feel the need to continually reply to prove their point. Its a bit tiring, I said my piece, so I'm bowing out!

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Main Street USA
Fantasyland
Adventureland
Frontierland
New Orleans Square
Star Wars: Galaxies Edge
Tomorrowland
Mickeys Toontown
Critter Country

Which one doesn’t belong?

I mean all you ll have to do is look at the park map to see that SWL isn’t a great fit at DL. They created a park within a park which doesn’t jive with DL’s flow but at least it doesn’t intrude either. Anyway, I’ve accepted the location and think that it’s the best possible scenario at DL. Still Not a fan of having a single IP land at DL. 14 acres at that. With that said I’m still very excited to see what these new high tech attractions will be all about.

Just curious, aside from the unpleasant crowds that SWL will bring to the park, is anyone here saying that just the thought of SWL existing in DL will change their experience at the park? This is where I think it helps to be practical. We do tend to spend a lot of time discussing issues/ details here (after all that is what this forum is for) myself included, however most of the time these things don’t carry the same type of weight when your at the park enjoying yourself. It’s just hard for me to believe someone won’t enjoy Space Mountain or Peter Pan as much because the thought of SWL will suddenly cross their mind and ruin it. To me the fact that SWL exists at DL will never effect me nearly as much as the crowds. That’s something that truly impacts the park experience. And yes I know SWL will make the parks crowded more often for the first couple years or so. But I don’t think It will be bad as most fear. Maybe I just don’t understand the demand for Star Wars but if the new land increases capacity by say 15k, and attendance only rises 15k per day then it’s a wash. If attendance doesn’t rise too dramatically over the new added capacity (which I don’t think it will on average) then I think we may actually experience some parts of the resort be more pleasant. Especially DCA.

I think the added crowds won't really be felt in places like say, TL, but more at the major chokepoints of entrances, especially around NOS leading into CC.

But you're right, there does come a time to be practical. Just because SWL exists, doesn't mean the rest of the park is suddenly tainted. I mean, unless you're just super super SUPER uptight. But hey, if you're that bent out of shape over the fact it exists, maybe stop coming and that's one less person to have to deal with!

 

[spacemt354]

Main Street USA
Fantasyland
Adventureland
Frontierland
New Orleans Square
Star Wars: Galaxies Edge
Tomorrowland
Mickeys Toontown
Critter Country

Which one doesn’t belong?

I mean all you ll have to do is look at the park map to see that SWL isn’t a great fit at DL. They created a park within a park which doesn’t jive with DL’s flow but at least it doesn’t intrude either. Anyway, I’ve accepted the location and think that it’s the best possible scenario at DL. Still Not a fan of having a single IP land at DL. 14 acres at that. With that said I’m still very excited to see what these new high tech attractions will be all about.

Just curious, aside from the unpleasant crowds that SWL will bring to the park, is anyone here saying that just the thought of SWL existing in DL will change their experience at the park? This is where I think it helps to be practical. We do tend to spend a lot of time discussing issues/ details here (after all that is what this forum is for) myself included, however most of the time these things don’t carry the same type of weight when your at the park enjoying yourself. It’s just hard for me to believe someone won’t enjoy Space Mountain or Peter Pan as much because the thought of SWL will suddenly cross their mind and ruin it. To me the fact that SWL exists at DL will never effect me nearly as much as the crowds. That’s something that truly impacts the park experience. And yes I know SWL will make the parks crowded more often for the first couple years or so. But I don’t think It will be bad as most fear. Maybe I just don’t understand the demand for Star Wars but if the new land increases capacity by say 15k, and attendance only rises 15k per day then it’s a wash. If attendance doesn’t rise too dramatically over the new added capacity (which I don’t think it will on average) then I think we may actually experience some parts of the resort be more pleasant. Especially DCA.

I mean, i agree with all of this.

There are some that think there is never anything wrong with Disneyland, and others who think everything is wrong

Then there is the majority of the people in the middle that see flaws, but will still enjoy the park, including myself.

On an internet forum though it can read very much like only the polar opposite views are present. It is either a good addition or it isnt. And some minor complaints are blown up in debates to be these nagging complaints that are so nitpicky, but in reality it is just an observation.

Its fun to debate, its annoying to repeat the same talking points over and over if one doesnt agree though. In the end, DL will probably still be my favorite park.

 

[Disney Irish]

Nope, it was innocuous. Just off topic.

Thanks for admitting you misspoke.

Youre free to feel however you like, Im just a bit tired of people who cant just accept that otherd can see the parks differently, and feel the need to continually reply to prove their point. Its a bit tiring, I said my piece, so I'm bowing out!

The reason why it didn't register to me in the first place was that I don't really consider it an overlay. As I stated in another post a few minutes ago. To me its a long dead attraction made with a new theme, not an overlay. An overlay would be if they had brought back the subs, ran them for a while, then changed to Nemo. It'd be like if they brought back Peoplemover but themed it to Incredibles or Wall-e. In reality it wouldn't be the old Peoplemover, it would be a new Peoplemover with a new theme. I guess its a bit semantics, but still I don't consider it an overlay.

Or said a different way, its an old concept made new by a different theme, not an overlay.

In reality the change to Nemo is what saved the subs. It was rumored to have been on the chopping block for the almost 10 years it sat dormant. One can argue that it should have been demo'd but that is a different discussion.

 

[mickEblu]

The reason why it didn't register to me in the first place was that I don't really consider it an overlay. As I stated in another post a few minutes ago. To me its a long dead attraction made with a new theme, not an overlay. An overlay would be if they had brought back the subs, ran them for a while, then changed to Nemo. It'd be like if they brought back Peoplemover but themed it to Incredibles or Wall-e. In reality it wouldn't be the old Peoplemover, it would be a new Peoplemover with a new theme. I guess its a bit semantics, but still I don't consider it an overlay.

Or said a different way, its an old concept made new by a different theme, not an overlay.

In reality the change to Nemo is what saved the subs. It was rumored to have been on the chopping block for the almost 10 years it sat dormant. One can argue that it should have been demo'd but that is a different discussion.

Speaking of Nemo, I think 90% of us can agree that absolutely nothing would be lost (Excluding capacity) if they just had fake submarine tops running through the lagoon and kept the seagulls on. Most of us appareciate the lagoon and kinetic energy. Every 5 years or so I have to ride Nemo to remind myself how bad it is.

 

[Disney Irish]

Speaking of Nemo, I think 90% of us can agree that absolutely nothing would be lost (Excluding capacity) if they just had fake submarine tops running through the lagoon and kept the seagulls on. Most of us appareciate the lagoon and kinetic energy. Every 5 years or so I have to ride Nemo to remind myself how bad it is.

I think the same 90% of us would have been alright with the subs just going away completely in 1998.