Wookies, & Rebels, & Droids... OH WHY?! The Anti-SWL in Disneyland Thread

[spacemt354]

All I'm saying is, people point fingers at current day management for a wide assortment of things they do wrong. Many of which I agree with. Point being though, 30 years ago, there was already significant intent to be pretty dang disruptive with what we've grown to think of what a land within Disneyland should be. The idea to do this is not new, not indicative of some lack of care or inspiration, and just took a lot longer to get around to.

IMO -- if anything, Disneyland has always been guilty of remaining too stagnant due to its limited size and lack of willingness to take any risks after Walt died. I think it's smaller in scope 'charm' is way less by design and more of a consequence of that. It took a huge surefire win like Star Wars to finally get them to take the leap and completely restructure operations to make something like this happen and move the park into the 21st century.

Ideas float around all the time. Blue Sky concepts. Execution of those is an entirely different thing.

Even with the DB land in question the only thing i would give you a point for is the potential size, however, nothing about the land itself would be as drastic a change from DL lands as you are portraying, in my view.

Again, if Disneyland was struggling and needed a jolt in the arm, I'd give you another point to your argument. But #2 in theme park attendance worldwide is not struggling, so i guess millions of people like the charm as is, even if by accident. Bob Iger wanted Star Wars in the parks his way and he is getting it. Thats what this all comes down to.

 

[dweezil78]

Ideas float around all the time. Blue Sky concepts. Execution of those is an entirely different thing.

Even the DB land in question the only thing i would give you a point for is the potential size, however, nothing about the land itself would be as drastic a change from DL lands as you are portraying, in my view.

Again, if Disneyland was struggling and needed a jolt in the arm, I'd give you another point to your argument. But #2 in theme park attendance worldwide is not struggling, so i guess millions of people like the charm as is, even if by accident. Bob Iger wanted Star Wars in the parks his way and he is getting it.

Nothing gets made until it gets made. All we can do is point to other things that have been in development as an indication as to where things have been headed in DL development over the last quarter+ century. Almost every proposal from the late 70s thru today has been super ambitious in scope. It's just that literally nothing aside from a few individual attractions (and the cheap forgettable Toon Town) ever got the funding they needed to move past conceptual stage. It's certainly a bummer none of it ever got made until SWL got the greenlight, because now some people seem to have this belief that Disneyland should only adhere to out of date land design from 1955-1967.

But, hey, thanks for the point.

 

[spacemt354]

Nothing gets made until it gets made. All we can do is point to other things that have been in development as an indication as to where things have been headed in DL development over the last quarter+ century. Almost every proposal from the late 70s thru today has been super ambitious in scope. It's just that literally nothing aside from a few individual attractions (and the cheap forgettable Toon Town) ever got the funding they needed to move past conceptual stage. It's certainly a bummer none of it ever got made until SWL got the greenlight, because now some people seem to have this belief that Disneyland should only adhere to out of date land design from 1955-1967.

But, hey, thanks for the point.

You make it sound like the few attractions recieved werent good, when Big Thunder, Space Mountain, Splash, Indiana Jones, among others were part of that era, and some of the best attractions in the park.

There's a reason why other Disney Resort Magic Kingdom style theme parks adopted Disneyland's model layout for lands..because it works. Many of those ambitious proposals you mention were of singular attractions too, not of 14 acre thematically enclosed lands like Star Wars.

 

[dweezil78]

You make it sound like the few attractions recieved werent good, when Big Thunder, Space Mountain, Splash, Indiana Jones, among others were part of that era, and some of the best attractions in the park.

There's a reason why other Disney Resort Magic Kingdom style theme parks adopted Disneyland's model layout for lands..because it works. Many of those ambitious proposals you mention were of singular attractions too, not of 14 acre thematically enclosed lands like Star Wars.

They are all great, of course. And if those individual attractions are any indication, should WDI have had ever had the opportunity in the past 30 years to do full lands, don't you think they'd have aspired to do them on a similar level of scope as we see in those individual amazing attractions? Again, the point I'm trying to hammer home is that while yes SWL is completely counter to the design of the original lands -- nearly everything that WDI has been trying to get off the ground in the past 30 years would have been if it were ever actually made. The MK hub and spoke model works great as a foundational setup for getting around, I agree -- but Disneyland has no choice but to look beyond those spokes if wants to grow without fully replacing existing areas.

 

[Disney Irish]

And yet, despite the transition to bigger = better (the good/bad of that is another debate) Disneyland remains #2 worldwide in attendance numbers.

Your theory would make more sense if Disneyland was suffering from out of date lands and low attendance, with this land injecting new life to the park.

But that isn't the case. Disneyland is beloved for what it always has been that many other parks nowadays dont have...and that's charm.

It will undoubtedly be popular and successful. What that affects going forward is a bit concerning to those who cherish Disneyland's 60 years of charm and diversity, not having it in the future turn into an Islands of Adventure park.

Disneyland hasn't always been number 2, there have been years (especially recently) where it dipped behind TDL. One of the biggest reasons is TDL is adding new attractions and expanding. One thing up until SW:GE DL itself hasn't been doing. I mean when was the last major attraction, Indy in 1995, that's a long time.

Also DLR has a built-in attendance with APs who eat up nostalgia. However TWDC wants to grow DLR beyond just APs and make DLR a tourist destination. You can't do that if you don't add new amazing experiences that compete with the likes of Harry Potter and wow guests. SW:GE is Disney's Potter Killer. Now one can argue you can get the same wow with non-IP experiences, but we aren't in that era right now. We are in the IP wars era right now where each company is building bigger and better experiences. And as long as the war of greater experiences drive innovation in the theme park industry we the guest are better for it.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

Disneyland hasn't always been number 2, there have been years (especially recently) where it dipped behind TDL. One of the biggest reasons is TDL is adding new attractions and expanding. One thing up until SW:GE DL itself hasn't been doing. I mean when was the last major attraction, Indy in 1995, that's a long time.

Also DLR has a built-in attendance with APs who eat up nostalgia. However TWDC wants to grow DLR beyond just APs and make DLR a tourist destination. You can't do that if you don't add new amazing experiences that compete with the likes of Harry Potter and wow guests. SW:GE is Disney's Potter Killer. Now one can argue you can get the same wow with non-IP experiences, but we aren't in that era right now. We are in the IP wars era right now where each company is building bigger and better experiences. And as long as the war of greater experiences drive innovation in the theme park industry we the guest are better for it.

MK has been #1 since like 2005

 

[spacemt354]

yes SWL is completely counter to the design of the original lands

Thank you for finally admitting what I've been saying this whole time!

-- nearly everything that WDI has been trying to get off the ground in the past 30 years would have been if it were ever actually made.

Nope. This is complete hyperbole so it fits the narrative you are presenting.

 

[spacemt354]

Disneyland hasn't always been number 2, there have been years (especially recently) where it dipped behind TDL. One of the biggest reasons is TDL is adding new attractions and expanding. One thing up until SW:GE DL itself hasn't been doing. I mean when was the last major attraction, Indy in 1995, that's a long time.

Also DLR has a built-in attendance with APs who eat up nostalgia. However TWDC wants to grow DLR beyond just APs and make DLR a tourist destination. You can't do that if you don't add new amazing experiences that compete with the likes of Harry Potter and wow guests. SW:GE is Disney's Potter Killer. Now one can argue you can get the same wow with non-IP experiences, but we aren't in that era right now. We are in the IP wars era right now where each company is building bigger and better experiences. And as long as the war of greater experiences drive innovation in the theme park industry we the guest are better for it.

Your argument is...Disneyland hasn't always been #2 in attendance, because in 2 out of the last 10 years...it was #3 in the world - therefore it isn't as popular?

The mental gymnastics some people go to defend their arguments amazes me.

When Disneyland holds the most amount of E-tickets in any Disney Park, and the most amount of attractions, and a park next door that needed some serious help, it doesn't need a new E-ticket ever 5 years in order to remain popular. That being said, I'm not against Disneyland expanding. I'm not against IPs (even a larger Star Wars presence) in Disneyland. I'm not even against the new 'IP war' even though new attractions such as Mystic Manor in 2013 have been praised.

My concerns rests solely on how this new land will look in comparison to the rest of the park, and how the inevitable success of this land will impact the rest of the park in the future. Maybe you aren't up to date with the happenings at WDW, but classic attractions are being IP overlayed left and right because, hey, its an 'IP war era' -- Forcing in a 14 acre land inconsistent with the rest of Disneyland tells me that same mindset has made its way over to Disneyland, especially when you look at the state of DCA.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

I agree that it and Marvel should have their own parks but what's done is done. You can still have another park win these IPs. Marvel and Staw Wars have universes that are so incredibly huge that they could easily be in multiple parks and be unique.

They really should have their own parks...so that I can not visit them.

This is absolutely my personal quip, but SW will never truly be Disney to me. Same with Marvel.
To me, both brands just reek of Iger's greediness. SWL is no more a collection of innovative attractions than it is a big FU to Universal saying, "Ha! We're better than you, and we know it!"

The largest single-IP land expansion in parks history will forever be seen by me as an over-bloated stamp on the parks saying, "IGER WUZ HERE!" I'm only surprised he isn't pushing for a 15 foot tall statue of himself at the center.

 

[dweezil78]

Thank you for finally admitting what I've been saying this whole time!

Nope. This is complete hyperbole so it fits the narrative you are presenting.

Yes but my POV is that this is a great thing and something they've been aggressively trying to do for 30 years. Your POV is that they should adhere to theme design from the 60s and everything needs to fit perfectly into something developed 60+ years ago. We can agree to disagree. We both want different things from the park and today's themed entertainment. No biggie.

 

[spacemt354]

Yes but my POV is that this is a great thing and something they've been aggressively trying to do for 30 years. Your POV is that they should adhere to theme design from the 60s and everything needs to fit perfectly into something developed 60+ years ago. We can agree to disagree. We both want different things from the park and today's themed entertainment. No biggie.

You keep saying Im holding onto something from the 60s as if it is outdated, when even as recent as 2013 with Fantasy Faire, that stylistically blended into Disneyland's prior theme park enviornment, as good expansions do.

Everyone thought Pandora was going to be a depature from DAK, it turns out that it blended in really nicely with the rest of the park. If SWGE can do that with Disneyland, as ive said before, ill still have some issues with it but my biggest concern of scale will be satisfied.

 

[dweezil78]

You keep saying Im holding onto something from the 60s as if it is outdated, when even as recent as 2013 with Fantasy Faire, that stylistically blended into Disneyland's prior theme park enviornment, as good expansions do.

Everyone thought Pandora was going to be a depature from DAK, it turns out that it blended in really nicely with the rest of the park. If SWGE can do that with Disneyland, as ive said before, ill still have some issues with it but my biggest concern of scale will be satisfied.

Dude, you are talking about a re-themed circus tent and a facade for a short cut to get tacos and hit the restroom. That is not an expansion.

I was never among those who thought Pandora would be a departure just as I think they are going above and beyond to ensure this blends well with DL in a similar way. The new rock work is adding all kinds of new depth and modern bells and whistles that the park has been sorely lacking. It's going to be disruptive, huge and singularly focused on one IP, but it's not going to ruin Disneyland. (The crowds may very well though!)

 

[spacemt354]

Dude, you are talking about a re-themed circus tent and a facade for a short cut to get tacos and hit the restroom. That is not an expansion.

It stylistically didn't deviate from decades of attractions as recent as 2013. You're focusing on diction while completely missing the point.

It's going to be disruptive,

Yes...yes it is!

That being said, if you've been waiting for something like this to happen, as it seems, well then I'm glad it's happening for you.

 

[dweezil78]

It stylistically didn't deviate from decades of attractions as recent as 2013. You're focusing on diction while completely missing the point.

Yes...yes it is!

That being said, if you've been waiting for something like this to happen, as it seems, well then I'm glad it's happening for you.

I'm not focusing on diction. I am once again pointing out the fact that Disneyland Park has seen no real 'land' expansion on the same size/level of the park's original lands in an insanely long time. (Arguably since it opened, at best since Tomorrowland 67).

There have been plenty of rethemes, redos, plussing, and wedging in of new attractions/shops/dining over the years and by default, due to preexisting space/location, those things obviously don't stray far from their surroundings both in scale and theme.

Star Wars is drastically different than all of these things in that it is a true new land expansion. WDI having a completely blank canvas like that to play with at DL is something that has never happened since I've been born (and I'm pushing 40!) It's severely overdue and, yeah, I'm super pumped it is happening and that they are going all-out instead of trying to appease those who want to keep DL as Walt's charming little park.

 

[TROR]

While I'm all for expanding the park, I'd much rather see an expansion to Frontierland and a new land themed to Revolutionary War era America

 

[dweezil78]

While I'm all for expanding the park, I'd much rather see an expansion to Frontierland and a new land themed to Revolutionary War era America

You mean Liberty Square? Also I'm sure that Revolutionary War era expansion ranked a close 2nd in guest surveys.

 

[TROR]

You mean Liberty Square?

Yes, but actually good.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Yes, but actually good.

Damn.

 

[Hatbox Ghostbuster]

Yes, but actually good.

So...Colonial Williamsburg?

 

[spacemt354]

I'm super pumped it is happening and that they are going all-out instead of trying to appease those who want to keep DL as Walt's charming little park.

I think they are going above and beyond to ensure this blends well with DL in a similar way.

These are contradicting statements.

If something if a drastic change in direction for the park, it can't also go "above and beyond" to ensure it blends in with Walt's 'charming little park' - then it wouldn't be so drastic of a change, eh?

There will be a discrepancy that some people look beyond and don't care about (like yourself) and others that might be a bit turned off by it and the potential direction it might lead for the park. As long as you recognize that, there really isn't much more to discuss.