Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

[Prince-1]

They know that boys just don't care for Disney animation

I am sure you have some back up for this wild and inaccurate claim.

 

[Miss Rori]

What an odd, unfounded assertion.

I don't think it's completely unfounded -- there's a reason they've leaned so hard into the princess/princess-adjacent iconography going back to even the Renaissance years. Aside from The Lion King, the bulk of the in-house Disney Animated Canon movies that were big merchandising as well as box office hits have long been the ones with female leads; even Aladdin is thought of as a "princess movie" despite its male protagonist. Once the Disney Princess branding was officially "a thing", they tried very hard to come up with a male equivalent to appeal to those 8-to-12 year-old boys who like superheroes, action figures, etc. with the "Disney Heroes" line at the Stores, which completely tanked. This was also the stretch in which films like Atlantis and Treasure Planet ate dirt at the box office. Probably the closest they came to a film that bridged the gender gap was Lilo & Stitch but even then, the merch never seemed to be as popular with, or even aimed at, boys as opposed to girls (and that's even more the case now). And as successful as Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia were/are, they weren't really big marketing bonanzas, especially compared to Pixar franchises like Toy Story and Cars.

Disney's even worse about this with the parks; there aren't a lot of character greets and meals focused on male characters (not counting Mickey Mouse and Co. of course) and where the princess movies, sometimes eventually, get tapped for new or reskinned attractions Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia have never been capitalized upon in that regard, at least not in the U.S. The closest we've come to something like that is San Fransokyo at California Adventure. (I'm still not sure why, especially given its Marvel connections, Big Hero 6 seems like a cult success at best.) There have been families who were complaining to family travel guides that the parks didn't excite young boys they way they did girls, even when they tried leaning in on the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. They've had success with Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar and Pixar properties when it comes to appealing to boys (and girls too, of course), but those are all different companies/media.

 

[LittleBuford]

I don't think it's completely unfounded

You claimed that “boys just don't care for Disney animation”, which is indeed completely unfounded.

 

[DKampy]

I don't think it's completely unfounded -- there's a reason they've leaned so hard into the princess/princess-adjacent iconography going back to even the Renaissance years. Aside from The Lion King, the bulk of the in-house Disney Animated Canon movies that were big merchandising as well as box office hits have long been the ones with female leads; even Aladdin is thought of as a "princess movie" despite its male protagonist. Once the Disney Princess branding was officially "a thing", they tried very hard to come up with a male equivalent to appeal to those 8-to-12 year-old boys who like superheroes, action figures, etc. with the "Disney Heroes" line at the Stores, which completely tanked. This was also the stretch in which films like Atlantis and Treasure Planet ate dirt at the box office. Probably the closest they came to a film that bridged the gender gap was Lilo & Stitch but even then, the merch never seemed to be as popular with, or even aimed at, boys as opposed to girls (and that's even more the case now). And as successful as Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia were/are, they weren't really big marketing bonanzas, especially compared to Pixar franchises like Toy Story and Cars.

Disney's even worse about this with the parks; there aren't a lot of character greets and meals focused on male characters (not counting Mickey Mouse and Co. of course) and where the princess movies, sometimes eventually, get tapped for new or reskinned attractions Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia have never been capitalized upon in that regard, at least not in the U.S. The closest we've come to something like that is San Fransokyo at California Adventure. (I'm still not sure why, especially given its Marvel connections, Big Hero 6 seems like a cult success at best.) There have been families who were complaining to family travel guides that the parks didn't excite young boys they way they did girls, even when they tried leaning in on the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. They've had success with Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar and Pixar properties when it comes to appealing to boys (and girls too, of course), but those are all different companies/media.

Yet Cars remains as one of their biggest merchandise movers ever

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Check out the background for D'Amaro's teaser for WDW announcements at the Tiana's Bayou Adventure media event:



For reference, Wish has been bouncing around the last spot on the Trending list for Disney+ (without Hulu) over the last few weeks.

I don't think Disney has given up on Wish.

 

[Tha Realest]

Yet Cars remains as one of their biggest merchandise movers ever

The OP offered a Pixar qualifier. Cars is Pixar.

 

[LittleBuford]

The OP offered a Pixar qualifier. Cars is Pixar.

Boys watch and like Disney animated films. They always have. We all know this. I’m truly baffled that this is even a debate.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't think it's completely unfounded -- there's a reason they've leaned so hard into the princess/princess-adjacent iconography going back to even the Renaissance years. Aside from The Lion King, the bulk of the in-house Disney Animated Canon movies that were big merchandising as well as box office hits have long been the ones with female leads; even Aladdin is thought of as a "princess movie" despite its male protagonist. Once the Disney Princess branding was officially "a thing", they tried very hard to come up with a male equivalent to appeal to those 8-to-12 year-old boys who like superheroes, action figures, etc. with the "Disney Heroes" line at the Stores, which completely tanked. This was also the stretch in which films like Atlantis and Treasure Planet ate dirt at the box office. Probably the closest they came to a film that bridged the gender gap was Lilo & Stitch but even then, the merch never seemed to be as popular with, or even aimed at, boys as opposed to girls (and that's even more the case now). And as successful as Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia were/are, they weren't really big marketing bonanzas, especially compared to Pixar franchises like Toy Story and Cars.

Disney's even worse about this with the parks; there aren't a lot of character greets and meals focused on male characters (not counting Mickey Mouse and Co. of course) and where the princess movies, sometimes eventually, get tapped for new or reskinned attractions Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia have never been capitalized upon in that regard, at least not in the U.S. The closest we've come to something like that is San Fransokyo at California Adventure. (I'm still not sure why, especially given its Marvel connections, Big Hero 6 seems like a cult success at best.) There have been families who were complaining to family travel guides that the parks didn't excite young boys they way they did girls, even when they tried leaning in on the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. They've had success with Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar and Pixar properties when it comes to appealing to boys (and girls too, of course), but those are all different companies/media.

You're conflating a bunch of things together that does not actually equate to "boys don't care for Disney animation".

 

[Miss Rori]

Speaking of which, I really wish she'd leave and they would put someone people actually care about in her place. I refuse to believe the movie was a massive bomb, it did badly on Disney Plus, AND the merchandise failed miserably, but there's still demand for a character meet.

Perhaps there's a contract for the performer(s) that has to be fulfilled before they can drop Asha from the meet and greets, or reassign the performer to another character. Thinking of how the 1900 Park Fare revamp shows signs that it was originally going to feature her (including a portrait on the wall) but instead having Mirabel as the fourth character alongside Cinderella, Aladdin and Tiana despite Mirabel's story having nothing to do with wishes coming true, it just seems like whenever Wish is brought up (as in the video linked above, or having a Hallmark Keepsake Ornament which isn't arriving until October, etc.) it's simply because of pre-inked obligations that still have to be met.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I don't think it's completely unfounded -- there's a reason they've leaned so hard into the princess/princess-adjacent iconography going back to even the Renaissance years. Aside from The Lion King, the bulk of the in-house Disney Animated Canon movies that were big merchandising as well as box office hits have long been the ones with female leads; even Aladdin is thought of as a "princess movie" despite its male protagonist. Once the Disney Princess branding was officially "a thing", they tried very hard to come up with a male equivalent to appeal to those 8-to-12 year-old boys who like superheroes, action figures, etc. with the "Disney Heroes" line at the Stores, which completely tanked. This was also the stretch in which films like Atlantis and Treasure Planet ate dirt at the box office. Probably the closest they came to a film that bridged the gender gap was Lilo & Stitch but even then, the merch never seemed to be as popular with, or even aimed at, boys as opposed to girls (and that's even more the case now). And as successful as Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia were/are, they weren't really big marketing bonanzas, especially compared to Pixar franchises like Toy Story and Cars.

Disney's even worse about this with the parks; there aren't a lot of character greets and meals focused on male characters (not counting Mickey Mouse and Co. of course) and where the princess movies, sometimes eventually, get tapped for new or reskinned attractions Wreck-It Ralph and Zootopia have never been capitalized upon in that regard, at least not in the U.S. The closest we've come to something like that is San Fransokyo at California Adventure. (I'm still not sure why, especially given its Marvel connections, Big Hero 6 seems like a cult success at best.) There have been families who were complaining to family travel guides that the parks didn't excite young boys they way they did girls, even when they tried leaning in on the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. They've had success with Marvel, Star Wars, Avatar and Pixar properties when it comes to appealing to boys (and girls too, of course), but those are all different companies/media.

Yeah, I have to agree with others that you're not making a strong case here for boys not caring for Disney animation. To take just one part of this, just because a film doesn't have a male protagonist doesn't mean boys didn't like the movie. For example, is your argument that boys don't care for Frozen, Moana, or Encanto and all those films were such massive successes solely on the basis of girls watching them? I'd like to see some evidence for that before I would accept it.

 

[Miss Rori]

You're conflating a bunch of things together that does not actually equate to "boys don't care for Disney animation".

A better way I could have put it is that boys enjoy watching Disney animated features, but they don't care enough about them to buy the merchandise and all the other ancillary things that Disney Corporate equates to lasting success, and that affected how they approached Strange World's marketing and merchandising. Indeed, why the films that do have male, human protagonists usually haven't done as well over the decades in that regard (even the ones that did well at the box office like Aladdin and Hercules) with boys the way stuff like Star Wars, Pixar, etc. have is an interesting conundrum. (Not to mention that, again, films like The Black Cauldron, Atlantis, and Treasure Planet are among the biggest flops WDFAS ever had.)

 

[DKampy]

The OP offered a Pixar qualifier. Cars is Pixar.

Most of your average Disney fans see Pixar as Disney… every Pixar movie they have ever seen has come from Disney… so saying people only see Disney as a girl brand is false

 

[LittleBuford]

A better way I could have put it is that boys enjoy watching Disney animated features, but they don't care enough about them to buy the merchandise and all the other ancillary things that Disney Corporate equates to lasting success

You have no proof for this either.

 

[Advisable Joseph]

Wish is brought up (as in the video linked above, or having a Hallmark Keepsake Ornament which isn't arriving until October, etc.) it's simply because of pre-inked obligations that still have to be met.

I don't understand: why would Disney be obligated to tease some sort of Wish announcement at D23?

 

[Tha Realest]

I think the problem with just burying Wish is that they obviously figured, as a princess-adjacent movie, it was going to catch on and they didn't want to be underprepared they way they were with the original Frozen and to a lesser extent Encanto. It's pretty clear they still have to push out a preplanned wave of back-to-school merchandise over the next three months or so before they can leave it behind altogether; by comparison there was virtually no merchandising for Strange World at all. They know that boys just don't care for Disney animation (Pixar, maybe), so there wasn't any point in trying to push the merch on that one.

Most of your average Disney fans see Pixar as Disney… every Pixar movie they have ever seen has come from Disney… so saying people only see Disney as a girl brand is false

The OP offered the qualifier within their post. I don’t necessarily agree with all of what they said but it’s dishonest to contort what they said, when they had that right in the original post that people keep paraphrasing or omitting this noted qualifier.

 

[DisneyHead123]

A better way I could have put it is that boys enjoy watching Disney animated features, but they don't care enough about them to buy the merchandise and all the other ancillary things that Disney Corporate equates to lasting success, and that affected how they approached Strange World's marketing and merchandising. Indeed, why the films that do have male, human protagonists usually haven't done as well over the decades in that regard (even the ones that did well at the box office like Aladdin and Hercules) with boys the way stuff like Star Wars, Pixar, etc. have is an interesting conundrum. (Not to mention that, again, films like The Black Cauldron, Atlantis, and Treasure Planet are among the biggest flops WDFAS ever had.)

If you add the caveat "in my experience, which is anecdotal", I pretty much agree with you. The only characters who make a dent with the boys I know are Spiderman / Marvel heroes (and I'm never clear on who owns what rights there,) and maybe Cars, although less so as the years go by. Otherwise, when it comes to licensed characters, they seem to begin life loving a steady stream of YouTube sensations (Cocomelon, Blippi, Ryan's World), spend their toddler years liking Thomas Tank Engine, various super heroes, and Paw Patrol (PJ Mask is not as popular but does sometimes appeal to boys that age, same for Bluey,) move on to superheroes, Jurassic World, Pokemon, Sonic and Mario, until they're old enough for Roblox / Minecraft and Mr. Beast and then it's all about electronics from that point forward. Again, just my anecdotal experience. Strangely I really don't know any boys who are into Star Wars anymore, even though given the amount of merchandise in stores they must be selling it to someone. The Fab 5 in general still seem popular but more as images on things like food or clothing, not as "must have" toys.

The strongest theme there seems to be that IP surrounding YouTube and video games seems do better with boys. I can see that because at least with my son, he still won't sit through a 90 minute animated movie, whereas it seems like a lot of little girls can watch Disney movies and understand them (maybe not in depth, but the basic plot) from the time they are toddlers. My theory is that the boy's toy market and the electronics market are deeply interwoven in a way that they are not for girl's toys. Again, anecdotal, my personal theory, not saying I have data on that.

 

[Disney Irish]

A better way I could have put it is that boys enjoy watching Disney animated features, but they don't care enough about them to buy the merchandise and all the other ancillary things that Disney Corporate equates to lasting success, and that affected how they approached Strange World's marketing and merchandising. Indeed, why the films that do have male, human protagonists usually haven't done as well over the decades in that regard (even the ones that did well at the box office like Aladdin and Hercules) with boys the way stuff like Star Wars, Pixar, etc. have is an interesting conundrum. (Not to mention that, again, films like The Black Cauldron, Atlantis, and Treasure Planet are among the biggest flops WDFAS ever had.)

The problem is you're making assertions without any proof. I get this is your opinion, but its just that opinion. There is no proof that this is actually how Disney sees it. For example do you have any actual sales numbers that break down the demographics of the recipients of merch from WDAS? Or are you just guessing based on your own opinion?

The fact that Disney produced other content that was seen as targeting "boys" and it not doing well doesn't mean that boys don't care about WDAS content. It actually says more about the quality of the content more than anything you're trying to prove.

Again you're conflating a bunch of things together to try and make some sort of point, which I'm still not sure what you're trying to prove here.

 

[Prince-1]

The problem is you're making assertions without any proof. I get this is your opinion, but its just that opinion. There is no proof that this is actually how Disney sees it. For example do you have any actual sales numbers that break down the demographics of the recipients of merch from WDAS? Or are you just guessing based on your own opinion?

The fact that Disney produced other content that was seen as targeting "boys" and it not doing well doesn't mean that boys don't care about WDAS content. It actually says more about the quality of the content more than anything you're trying to prove.

Again you're conflating a bunch of things together to try and make some sort of point, which I'm still not sure what you're trying to prove here.

Unfortunately this happens a lot on here. People have an opinion and then try to make it a fact even though there is nothing to support it.

 

[Phroobar]

The film merchandise market is very soft. Kids don't buy entire collections of toys based on one IP like we used to with Star Wars. The toy industry is in a world of hurt right now. Kids really don't seem to care. A boy might be just as happy with a generic dinosaur than a fancy Jurassic World one. There is a lot that goes unsold regardless on how popular the IP is. They are not correlated at all anymore. We've just finally dug our way out of Wakanda junk. I don't think a Toys R Us could survive anymore.

 

[DisneyHead123]

The film merchandise market is very soft. Kids don't buy entire collections of toys based on one IP like we used to with Star Wars. The toy industry is in a world of hurt right now. Kids really don't seem to care. A boy might be just as happy with a generic dinosaur than a fancy Jurassic World one. There is a lot that goes unsold regardless on how popular the IP is. They are not correlated at all anymore. We've just finally dug our way out of Wakanda junk. I don't think a Toys R Us could survive anymore.

It seems like there's been a rise in "mini toys" as well, made to wind up in the trash relatively quickly. All the miniatures and slime and such that's available at Five Below.