Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

[Disney Irish]

The film merchandise market is very soft. Kids don't buy entire collections of toys based on one IP like we used to with Star Wars. The toy industry is in a world of hurt right now. Kids really don't seem to care. A boy might be just as happen with a generic dinosaur than a fancy Jurassic World one. There is a lot that goes unsold regardless on how popular the IP is. They are not correlated at all anymore. We've just finally dug our way out of Wakanda junk. I don't think a Toys R Us could survive anymore.

I actually agree, unless you're a collector toys just don't have the same appeal overall compared to 20-30 years ago. And in the age of streaming there is even less ads for toys like back in the 70s-early 00s.

 

[Phroobar]

I actually agree, unless you're a collector toys just don't have the same appeal overall compared to 20-30 years ago. And in the age of streaming there is even less ads for toys like back in the 70s-early 00s.

My collection buying all come online now. At retail, kids will buy a random transformer or hot wheel or doll or barbie but they aren't going to buy every Moana or Frozen doll. Lego is really the only exception to the rule.

 

[Disney Irish]

My collection buying all come online now. At retail, kids will buy a random transformer or hot wheel or doll or barbie but they aren't going to buy every Moana or Frozen doll. Lego is really the only exception to the rule.

Its just different now, with less and less commercials being seen by kids they aren't inundated by flashy ads that give off the FOMO vibes. I also attribute a rise of STEM toys over the last 20 years as being a slight factor as well.

 

[BrianLo]

It's pretty ironic for a bunch of men to argue that boys don't like Disney IP.

 

[Phroobar]

It's pretty ironic for a bunch of men to argue that boys don't like Disney IP.

Have they ever liked Disney IPs? That was the whole point of Disney buying Star Wars to do better with the male market. They have the girls secured with Disney Princesses. The only thing that was remotely like it was the Cars franchise. Disney has historically been seen as something for babies by the 8-17 year old boys.

 

[Miss Rori]

Have they ever liked Disney IPs? That was the whole point of Disney buying Star Wars to do better with the male market. They have the girls secured with Disney Princesses. The only thing that was remotely like it was the Cars franchise. Disney has historically been seen as something for babies by the 8-17 year old boys.

This was what I meant - sure, boys enjoy plenty of Disney animated features, but not in the way Disney Corporate really wants them to, by buying the merch hand over fist. And even Tangled and Frozen have the titles they do because the bean-counters figured calling the former Rapunzel would instantly turn off boys. They apparently felt that one reason The Princess and the Frog underperformed in 2009 was the title was too girly. This was also why the teaser for Frozen didn't feature the main characters in favor of the comedy sidekicks; it's all about showing off what's most broadly appealing to get people through the door.

 

[LittleBuford]

Disney has historically been seen as something for babies by the 8-17 year old boys.

What is your evidence for this claim? How are people on a Disney forum so convinced that boys don’t like Disney?

 

[Disney Irish]

Have they ever liked Disney IPs? That was the whole point of Disney buying Star Wars to do better with the male market. They have the girls secured with Disney Princesses. The only thing that was remotely like it was the Cars franchise. Disney has historically been seen as something for babies by the 8-17 year old boys.

This was what I meant - sure, boys enjoy plenty of Disney animated features, but not in the way Disney Corporate really wants them to, by buying the merch hand over fist. And even Tangled and Frozen have the titles they do because the bean-counters figured calling the former Rapunzel would instantly turn off boys. They apparently felt that one reason The Princess and the Frog underperformed in 2009 was the title was too girly. This was also why the teaser for Frozen didn't feature the main characters in favor of the comedy sidekicks; it's all about showing off what's most broadly appealing to get people through the door.

Again I think you both are conflating a bunch of things together and making assumptions.

The whole idea of Disney buying Marvel and Lucas was to corner the market on all demographics, ie to capture those that didn't already like Disney. It was never that boys specifically didn't like Disney IP previously, but rather Disney wanted to capture MORE of that demographic than they already had. Its in the same way that there are girls that like Star Wars and Marvel, there are boys that like Disney. The whole idea is to increase their piece of the pie that is the child market.

 

[Phroobar]

Again I think you both are conflating a bunch of things together and making assumptions.

The whole idea of Disney buying Marvel and Lucas was to corner the market on all demographics, ie to capture those that didn't already like Disney. It was never that boys specifically didn't like Disney IP previously, but rather Disney wanted to capture MORE of that demographic than they already had. Its in the same way that there are girls that like Star Wars and Marvel, there are boys that like Disney. The whole idea is to increase their piece of the pie that is the child market.

Very true. Same thing. They wanted a bigger piece of the market. Problem is they destroyed that market with bad media.

 

[Disney Irish]

Very true. Same thing. They wanted a bigger piece of the market. Problem is they destroyed that market with bad media.

Well that is a different debate. But this idea that boys didn't previously like Disney and only started when they bought Lucas and Marvel is just outdated thinking.

 

[Phroobar]

Well that is a different debate. But this idea that boys didn't previously like Disney and only started when they bought Lucas and Marvel is just outdated thinking.

I don't think they liked Disney even after buying Star Wars and Marvel.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don't think they liked Disney even after buying Star Wars and Marvel.

Again a different debate.

 

[DisneyHead123]

What is your evidence for this claim? How are people on a Disney forum so convinced that boys don’t like Disney?

When talking about 8-17-year-olds, I don't think it's about gender, it's about age.

I do think saying "You like Mickey Mouse!" is something of an insult when used by boys aged 9-12 (I've heard that can be a common way to tease other kids around that age, accusing others of liking Mickey Mouse or Baby Shark and whatnot). I think a difference might be that the biggest exposure kids have to Mickey cartoons now is probably Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, which is clearly for the preschool set. I think the same is true of girls. Past a certain age the girls I know don't want to carry a Disney princess backpack for fear of being seen as babyish. Kids are done with pretend play toys at a young age these days, for the most part.

I'm not sure about Disney / Pixar movies, but I don't ever hear older boys talking about movies like Toy Story, Moana, or Coco. My hunch is it would be considered uncool. The exception might be singing a viral song like "We Don't Talk About Bruno." Not saying that's how it should be, but I certainly won't be sending my son to school in Toy Story or Coco shirts when he's nine. I cannot overemphasize how much all that boys that age talk about is Roblox and YouTube / TikTok (or Fortnite if their parents let them play it.) Maybe the occasional movie like Super Mario.

Again, not saying the boys I know are representative of all boys. But that's what I've observed.

 

[Disney Irish]

When talking about 8-17-year-olds, I don't think it's about gender, it's about age.

I do think saying "You like Mickey Mouse!" is something of an insult when used by boys aged 9-12 (I've heard that can be a common way to tease other kids around that age, accusing others of liking Mickey Mouse or Baby Shark and whatnot). I think a difference might be that the biggest exposure kids have to Mickey cartoons now is probably Mickey Mouse Clubhouse, which is clearly for the preschool set. I think the same is true of girls. Past a certain age the girls I know don't want to carry a Disney princess backpack for fear of being seen as babyish. Kids are done with pretend play toys at a young age these days, for the most part.

I'm not sure about Disney / Pixar movies, but I don't ever hear older boys talking about movies like Toy Story, Moana, or Coco. My hunch is it would be considered uncool. The exception might be singing a viral song like "We Don't Talk About Bruno." Not saying that's how it should be, but I certainly won't be sending my son to school in Toy Story or Coco shirts when he's nine. I cannot overemphasize how much all that boys that age talk about is Roblox and YouTube / TikTok (or Fortnite if their parents let them play it.) Maybe the occasional movie like Super Mario.

Again, not saying the boys I know are representative of all boys. But that's what I've observed.

However you have to think beyond just your little piece of the world. How do you think so many teens and adults become "Disney Lifestylers", its from their love of Disney as a kid. Its not like they are all or even a majority girls. Its no longer the "insult" you think it is to like Disney.

So this idea that boys are just turned off by or don't like Disney is an outdated stereotype.

 

[LittleBuford]

Again, not saying the boys I know are representative of all boys. But that's what I've observed.

But all of us have also observed cinema screenings of Disney movies that were well attended by boys, as well as boys happily participating in all the Disney activities and attractions at the parks. And unless I’m mistaken, most of us participating in these discussions are male and therefore know from firsthand experience that boys are perfectly capable of enjoying Disney.

 

[LittleBuford]

So this idea that boys are just turned off by or don't like Disney is an outdated stereotype.

I don’t even think it’s that. I’ve honestly never encountered it before it came up in this thread.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

When talking about 8-17-year-olds, I don't think it's about gender, it's about age.

I think there might be something in this, at least as far as not presuming merchandise from animated features more generally.

This is all anecdotal, but I would have been around 10-11 years old when Aladdin came out and it was obviously a huge film. As far as I can tell, there was no kind of gender division in terms of who liked it. I don't think anyone around my age at that time, though, would have been turning up with an Aladdin backpack or pencil case to school. My memory even reaching back through the mists of time is at that age kids really want to seem older and probably associate certain sorts of toys, etc. with being younger whatever their gender. I'm therefore not even sure that's a new thing. We all, boys and girls, went off happily to see The Lion King a year or so later, though!

Again, though, this is all very abstract, hunch, and personal experience based. Disney will know more who buys merchandise and why.

 

[Disney Irish]

I don’t even think it’s that. I’ve honestly never encountered it before it came up in this thread.

I think in some circles of society its the case that "Disney" is seen as just a bunch of little girl franchises. As I said it outdated thinking, because if that was the case why were there so many boys going to Disney Parks for the last 69 years, long before Pixar, Lucas, and Marvel.

 

[DisneyHead123]

Its no longer the "insult" you think it is to like Disney.

So this idea that boys are just turned off by or don't like Disney is an outdated stereotype.

Is this something you’ve found with boys that age you know personally? Not saying you’re wrong, just that I haven’t heard anecdotal evidence to the contrary that concerns real world people.

 

[DisneyHead123]

I think there might be something in this, at least as far as not presuming merchandise from animated features more generally.

This is all anecdotal, but I would have been around 10-11 years old when Aladdin came out and it was obviously a huge film. As far as I can tell, there was no kind of gender division in terms of who liked it. I don't think anyone around my age at that time, though, would have been turning up with an Aladdin backpack or pencil case to school. My memory even reaching back through the mists of time is at that age kids really want to seem older and probably associate certain sorts of toys, etc. with being younger whatever their gender. I'm therefore not even sure that's a new thing. We all, boys and girls, went off happily to see The Lion King a year or so later, though!

Again, though, this is all very abstract, hunch, and personal experience based. Disney will know more who buys merchandise and why.

Yeah that’s a good point. I think older kids probably enjoy Disney movies long past the age of wanting to have them on school supplies. And I think the parks are another area that older kids enjoy - saying you’re going to Disney World is probably a flex at any age, lol.