Wish (Walt Disney Animation - November 2023)

[Disstevefan1]

View attachment 758762
The above drawing of a trophy is in no way intended to be harmful or hurtful to anyone on this forum; on the contrary, it is meant to express my enjoyment of a joke made by another member of the forum, which only spreads positivity!

My FIRST TROPHY
Moderators, Please DO NOT send @imagineer97 to jail. This does not offend me, it makes me happy!
Thanks @imagineer97 !!!

 

[mickEblu]

My FIRST TROPHY
Moderators, Please DO NOT send @imagineer97 to jail. This does not offend me, it makes me happy!
Thanks @imagineer97 !!!

Haha what did I miss? What did you get in trouble for ?

 

[Sir_Cliff]

I'd surmise that this is actually some of the point. After all, plenty of intelligent, well-meaning people live under authoritarian regimes even today, and most of them remain content (or are even enthusiastic) to do so. If a viewer finds themselves thinking that life didn't seem so bad under Magnifico, that the tradeoffs made for security and a relatively empty happiness are worth it, then that probably says something about the viewer and how they would think about a real-world analogue. The film was trying to challenge its viewers to consider whether this is really okay or not. Asha (and by extension, probably the writers) didn't think so. Audiences need not agree.

I do think it comes down a little bit to the viewer's perspective regarding how convincing they find the argument. Specifically, the extent to which you privilege individual freedom above the benefits trading any of that away could bring. In the real world, this kind of argument comes up all the time about people thinking they are happy, for example, paying high taxes in exchange for public services but not realising the freedom they are losing by not being able to choose how they spend that money themselves.

I thought the film could have raised interesting questions about authoritarianism, but the simplistic way in which this was handled along with the lack of the character development is why I can understand the bad reviews despite the film not being terrible as such. As I said, I left wondering what this "authentic" happiness will mean for Rosas as a society where everyone is "A Star!" whose wishes and dreams are the most important thing in the world.

 

[brideck]

I do think it comes down a little bit to the viewer's perspective regarding how convincing they find the argument. Specifically, the extent to which you privilege individual freedom above the benefits trading any of that away could bring. In the real world, this kind of argument comes up all the time about people thinking they are happy, for example, paying high taxes in exchange for public services but not realising the freedom they are losing by not being able to choose how they spend that money themselves.

I don't know about you, but I'd probably just end up with more stuff in my house, whether that was my intention or not.

I thought the film could have raised interesting questions about authoritarianism, but the simplistic way in which this was handled along with the lack of the character development is why I can understand the bad reviews despite the film not being terrible as such. As I said, I left wondering what this "authentic" happiness will mean for Rosas as a society where everyone is "A Star!" whose wishes and dreams are the most important thing in the world.

I don't often play the "what happens after the credits roll" game, but in this case I think the epilogue (where we see people rushing off to make a flying machine, etc.) shows us that the world is now full of striving and progress. Following a single ruler's plan stifled (most of) that in the past. Will people disagree about how to go about things because they now have the wherewithal/freedom to do so? For sure. I don't think that's a bad thing.

 

[TP2000]

It has nothing to do with today's market. Even if Wish's budget was slashed in half, it would still be a flop. Notorious box office disappointments like Atlantis made substantially more money than Wish, and that was over 20 years ago.

Adjusted for inflation, mega flops like Treasure Planet made more than Wish.

Great point. The budgets in Burbank are bloated and irresponsible, as we've discussed a lot in the Box Office thread.

The comparison to Treasure Planet seems apt. Wish is on track to do slightly less global box office than Treasure Planet did, adjusted for inflation.

In order for Wish to break even with its current box office trajectory, its production budget would have to be $55 Million with a measly $25 Million marketing budget. And that's just to break even and recover costs spent making the movie the past 3 years, with no real profit made for Burbank.

Can you imagine Burbank slashing their production budgets by 75% to account for "the new reality" they helped created for themselves with Disney+ and family movies that parents no longer automatically trust for their children? I can't.

As I've said in the Box Office thread quite a bit... this business plan Burbank has created for itself is not sustainable.

Strange World was one of the cheapest movies Disney has made in years, but in order for it to break even with that pitiful global box office it got (foreigners disliked it even more than Americans), Strange World would have needed a production budget of only $25 Million and a marketing budget of only $10 Million. Is Burbank ready to be that frugal?

 

[TP2000]

No I can’t agree. It’s not as if the budget snuck up on them. It was a known factor. They thought going back to a “traditional” fairytale movie for the 100th would be a slam dunk but unfortunately it was too late. Probably too far into the production process with the bad apples at the company that got them in this mess. Let’s assume that the rumor of the gender fluid Star posing as a shapeshifter is true. It may have made the movie more interesting but it also reeks of DEI so something like that gets cut and perhaps other ideas get cut and you end up with this super sanitized movie that was being pulled into many different directions.

Agreed. With news of the genderfluid Star character, plus notes that the duet song seemed meant to be romantic but then got changed, tells me that Wish went in for big edits after the Strange World flop last Thanksgiving.

The general criticism of Wish seems to be that it was written by Committee, and seems to be a bland story without much drama or intrigue. That seems to point to big time edits that removed a lot of original content and left the movie feeling flat.

What makes more sense to me is they have been losing the faith and trust of their customers because of their DEI approach, subpar movies and streaming. They have tried to reel back some of the DEI stuff but it’ll take time to gain some of that faith/ trust back + a string of good movies again. And of course they need to cut down their budgets by at least half until they get out of this slump.

It sounds like Iger has started to course correct if we are to believe his words from that interview a few weeks ago. The entire production team on future projects needs to have their priorities set straight and then you just need to let them create. They may need a shakeup with talent too. And of course DEI needs to stay out of it.

Agreed, again. I certainly don't envy them this painful process. But they created this mess themselves on multiple fronts over several years, so it's not going to be easy for them. Will they regain trust of many parents? Will they be able to figure out a Disney+ strategy that doesn't lose them hundreds of millions of dollars every 90 days? Will they be able to thread that needle without an army of cubicle workers in Burbank protesting and marching around company headquarters with signs and chants before walking out for the day on a Stunning & Brave Comp Day?

I just do not envy Iger and senior leadership one bit. They've made a real mess for themselves. Good luck, kids!

 

[brideck]

"the new reality" they helped created for themselves with Disney+

They really fell for the trap that Netflix laid for them. In a world where Disney didn't create Disney+ and more or less just refused to play the streaming game (or better, treated digital releases like the Disney Vault where they auction them to the highest bidder for limited windows of time), there would still be massive FOMO for the majority of Disney's animated releases when they hit theaters. Instead of keeping to a "blue ocean" strategy, they just chased streaming with everyone else. It's a race to the bottom and the profits don't exist.

 

[mickEblu]

Will they be able to thread that needle without an army of cubicle workers in Burbank protesting and marching around company headquarters with signs and chants before walking out for the day on a Stunning & Brave Comp Day?

Yeah, I wonder about that too. How will they pull that off? How can they go backwards now? That’s going to be tough. They certainly can’t take too slow of an approach with how fast they re losing money.

EDIT: That’s why some cleaning house may be in order. #PeltzPerlmutter. They probably just need to can a few strategic people. Everyone else can get in line or find somewhere else to work.

 

[TP2000]

They really fell for the trap that Netflix laid for them. In a world where Disney didn't create Disney+ and more or less just refused to play the streaming game (or better, treated digital releases like the Disney Vault where they auction them to the highest bidder for limited windows of time), there would still be massive FOMO for the majority of Disney's animated releases when they hit theaters. Instead of keeping to a "blue ocean" strategy, they just chased streaming with everyone else. It's a race to the bottom and the profits don't exist.

Agreed. It's a mess.

My pea-sized brain has never been able to figure out how Disney+ will ever make them any money, or how it was ever thought that it would make money. It loses them a few hundred million every 90 days right now. How do you fix that? Just slashing production budgets on tentpole films by 75% won't do it, but the $200+ Million production budgets make it even worse.

They should have just leveraged Amazon Prime and rented or sold their movies and content on that platform, at premium prices that befit a premium product. Of course, hindsight is 20/20, but I can't imagine how no one in Burbank thought of that.

 

[BuddyThomas]

That Valutainment Guy said it best recently. Iger chose the wrong enemies and the wrong Allies. He made the parents the enemy. The ones who have the money and control what their kids watch and where they go. In the process they’ve lost a lot of peoples trust. I think Chapek actually saw this happening but didn’t have the b@lls to stand up to the mob and crumbled to the internal pressure. At the end of the day there are a lot more parents than the folks they were trying to appease. Simple numbers game.

Now you’re grouping all parents into the same box? That’s……interesting. Not all parents are terrified for their offspring to view representations of life other than what exists in their bubble.

 

[mickEblu]

Now you’re grouping all parents into the same box? That’s……interesting. Not all parents are terrified for their offspring to view representations of life other than what exists in their bubble.

Hey I’m just the messenger. Why don’t you take it up with the Valutainment guy.

 

[mickEblu]

Yes because no employee anywhere ever restocks anything. You might as well also claim that no one is buying new because there is always beer on the shelves.

You’re kidding right? The merch ain’t moving.

 

[BuddyThomas]

Hey I’m just the messenger. Why don’t you take it up with the Valutainment guy.

As you have already been informed twice, you do not speak for all parents. You speak for yourself and your family and that is it.

 

[mickEblu]

You know this how? Do you work at the Target you were previously discussing?

So you re telling me that every single time I go to Target it happens to be right after a Wish restock with not one item missing from the shelf? And oh yea this movie happens to be bombing too? Crazy coincidence.

 

[MoonRakerSCM]

You can only comment on the merch if you've seen the film!

 

[BuddyThomas]

So you re telling me that every single time I go to Target it happens to be right after a Wish restock with not one item missing from the shelf? And oh yea this movie happens to be bombing too? Crazy coincidence.

You sure seem overly interested in it, for some reason. Hmmmmmm. By the way, I don’t frequent Target but they have some extremely cool merch on ShopDisney and other online retailers.

 

[Disstevefan1]

If we did not have Buddy, these boards would be so boring! Thanks @BuddyThomas
T r O p H y

 

[Willmark]

Just wondering:

If the default is that someone needs have seen a movie to have an opinion/comment on it, then surely one has to be a parent to have an opinion/comment on parenting?

 

[mickEblu]

You sure seem overly interested in it, for some reason. Hmmmmmm. By the way, I don’t frequent Target but they have some extremely cool merch on ShopDisney and other online retailers.

Not sure what you’re getting at. Is this your default defense mechanism when you’ve ran out of things to say or have lost an argument?

 

[BuddyThomas]

Just wondering:

If the default is that someone needs have seen a movie to have an opinion/comment on it, then surely one has to be a parent to have an opinion/comment on parenting?

Just wondering:

If someone had been part of a family, someone has at one point been a child and has had parents, and understand basic family dynamics. Does that make your comment moot?