Will There Every Be a 5th Major Park?

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
The last is a connection between TL and Main Street USA.

highstreetx.jpg


The above is a terrible idea. Listen, I *hate* having to fight my way out of this park at night after a parade or wishes...

...but what you are suggesting is a way for people to leave the MK *without* having to walk past or through the majority of the parks merchandising.

If I were Staggs, I'd laugh this idea right out of the room.
 

ChrisFL

Premium Member
The above is a terrible idea. Listen, I *hate* having to fight my way out of this park at night after a parade or wishes...

...but what you are suggesting is a way for people to leave the MK *without* having to walk past or through the majority of the parks merchandising.

If I were Staggs, I'd laugh this idea right out of the room.

It's actually quite similar to what has been done in DLP, and there's still merchandise on that route.

I'd go so far as to say it might actually HELP sell more merchandise because when it's busy, a lot of people don't want to fight through the crowds in the stores to buy something
 

RandySavage

Well-Known Member
The above is a terrible idea. Listen, I *hate* having to fight my way out of this park at night after a parade or wishes...

...but what you are suggesting is a way for people to leave the MK *without* having to walk past or through the majority of the parks merchandising.

If I were Staggs, I'd laugh this idea right out of the room.

There is retail clearly labeled. It could (a) improve overall guest experience (aka spur repeat visitation) by alleviating overcrowding, (b) potentially improve merch sales to ChrisFL's point above, and (C) would be inexpensive to build. A CFO like Staggs would embrace that, not laugh.

What I would recommend to Staggs for that parking lot space - a new, original, $200 million E-ticket for Tomorrowland - is what would get laughed out of the room...
 

Bender!

New Member
I'd love to see Marvel Land as much as the next Marvel fan, but I'd rather see Beastly Kingdom and more done with DHS first.
 

deWild

Well-Known Member
There is a fifth park being developed and land is already cleared but won't be announced til after Fantasyland is complete... It will be on the other side of the road from Fort Wilderness campgrounds area... Its going to be more thrilling like California Adventure... Trees are being cleared but there's a very thick level of forest blocking view from the road........ You can tell when Disney is up to something big because they build new resorts 1.) Disney's Art of Animation, 2.) There's a DVC resort going up in the Fort Wilderness area... They build the new resorts to accomodate the higher number of guests... I promise you this is coming from a legit source, a family member works with a company who made new low VOC paint for Disney and the person looking over the project has taked with them bout using 100% of their paint in these new projects including Fantasyland................

Isn't this land being cleared for those new multi-million dollar condos?
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
The above is a terrible idea. Listen, I *hate* having to fight my way out of this park at night after a parade or wishes...

...but what you are suggesting is a way for people to leave the MK *without* having to walk past or through the majority of the parks merchandising.

If I were Staggs, I'd laugh this idea right out of the room.

I have that huge section that would be a store. Also, I think that most people that are walking through any of the stores on Main Street after fireworks are doing so to try and get off main street as they are leaving.

As long as this path isn't too narrow that guests feel like they are being horded, they will visit the shops because they will feel like they have the time to and they can wind down.

Also, one side is just a facade but there is space for shops depending on how much space is needed.

Staggs would be intrigued that a large amount of shops is masking the true nature of the path, which is to empty TL faster.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
I'm not sure what you mean by "operations"? There's definitely no movie-making going on! I believe they do have offices remaining in those buildings, as well as a wardrobe warehouse, if I'm not mistaken. There's also some mostly-empty-looking cast member parking lots mixed in there.

I could be very wrong, but I'm sure these things could be easily consolidated and moved to another area of the park (one that cannot possibly be used to expand guest areas) if necessary. However, I don't think there's any way management could possibly take up that much room. If you look on Google Earth, these buildings take up quite a chunk of land.

In regards to the streets, I am really only concerned with their current lack of a true purpose and taking up valuable space. And, to a certain extent, I think they do look a little cheap, especially that awful mural of the streets of San Francisco.

In Disney's studio-style parks (DHS, Walt Disney Studios Park in Paris, and to some extent, DCA) it also appears to me that Disney doesn't give too much effort into disguising their show buildings, or even making them look architecturally attractive, like in Epcot or Magic Kingdom. Here, they just make them look like a sound stage, which I do not find too appealing.

But, at this point, I'm just discussing what I don't like about DHS. :zipit:

I know that the animation studio moved to burbank, but I thought that other positions still stayed along with some of the soundstages still active (though not daily). There would also be park operations in some of those buildings. If they are just empty, it is irresponsible for tdo to have broadcasting facilities sitting around not earning money.

I agree that San Fran was really just slapped together over the weekend with some CP CMs. If there is the room, they can add shops built around the facade or make it an attraction that involves making a show or movie.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
So I have realized that a 5th gate is far off if ever. So what are some rumors about DHS or AK? That is very interesting conversation I would love to hear about? Within the next 2-3 years what can we see in those parks?

dhsexpansion.jpg



Just thought of some films that could be used.

Star Wars Land include the Cantina, a store themed as cloud city and Jedi Academy that would be multiple interactive attractions.

Peter Pan / Hook would be modeled after the lost boys set in neverland.

The Roger Rabbit area would use elements in the disney decade concepts that used roger rabbit.

The national treasure area would be based on the adventures in the three movies.
 

Thrill Seeker

Well-Known Member
I believe there will be a 5th park eventually. The other parks need more work first, but after they are all going strong, a 5th park could happen.

I would love to see it being an Islands of Adventure type thrill park featuring Marvel and other untouched properties.
 

PirateFrank

Well-Known Member
There is retail clearly labeled. It could (a) improve overall guest experience (aka spur repeat visitation) by alleviating overcrowding, (b) potentially improve merch sales to ChrisFL's point above, and (C) would be inexpensive to build. A CFO like Staggs would embrace that, not laugh.

A few things.

First, it was Staggs who put the kibosh on removing the hall of fame tent...for the reason that it was, if memory serves, the MK's second highest grossing retail location. I'm guessing here, but I suspect number one on the list is main st. I'm not so sure you're right here. I suspect Staggs would have Main St's retail at the forefront of his mind.

However, if you look back to my previous comment on this, I never suggested that I *knew* what was going through the man's head....and nor should you. I only said that if I were in that position, I would laugh you out of the room. BIG distinction.

Moreover, the idea of cutting a path to Tomorowland is fraught with issues that I don't think were considered:

a) cost benefit of extra stores on this path - Any retail location on this 'side path' would be considered 'secondary' to the main st retail...why? because, and forgive the pun....it's not on a main path. No store owner wants a side street when his competition is on the 'main st' Basic site planning 101....Then we're talking about cost-benefit here. Is it worthwhile to build stores, staff and stock them? Just for a side path? The point at which I think it becomes worthwhile is if it *is* a main path....and the only way to do that is to divert approximately half of your park guests down this path.....this leads into point b.

b) Traffic flow issues. Are you going to want half of your park guests to funnel into Tomorrowland at rope drop (and throughout the day)? What does that do to foot traffic, rider volume, traffic flow, street wear in that section of the park? Is Tomorrowland equiped to handle 50% of the park's initial volume? I think most reasonable thinkers already know the answer to this. Lets look at the inverse. The current evening bottleneck is the hub....While I agree the hub isn't doing the job it needs to, by cutting this path, you may lessen the bottleneck at the hub, only to increase it in front of Tony's. That location is not at all setup to shoulder a bottleneck. It just doesn't work. These are unintended consequences of this cutoff.....just because the hub gets blocked up @ park closing?! I'd rather have the bottleneck at the hub than watch the rest of the park's flow get bollocksed up.

c) Servicing - You effectively cut off the east-side main st stores. AFAIK, there is vehicle-based servicing to those locations. Will the Utilidors be able to handle the load, if you cut off what used to be vehicle servicing to those stores? If so, will the utilidors also be able to handle servicing to the proposed retail along the cutoff path? You're cutting off the servicing access and increasing the need. Doesn't sound well thought out to me.

d) Imagineering/Flow - Lets get back to the Hub for a second. It's there for a purpose. Walt's original plan was to funnel people down main st to a visually spectacular landmark. The tone for the entire park is set as you walk down Main St. It may be a light & fluffy, pixie-dustish factor to some, but it's an X-factor that is equally important in the way the park flows and operates. From there, guests walked out radially. The cutoff defeats that whole thing. The setting of the tone down main st, the walking from the center into specificly themed lands. The repeat guest may not care about this, but to the initial visitor, setting such a tone is imperative...and is just as important as good customer service, in ensuring return park guests.


Problem solving like this requires someone to lay out objectives first. What's the objective here? Increase egress flow from the park after wishes? Then address the problem. Bypassing it only creates a problem elsewhere, as I already established.

Perhaps a significant widening of paths at the hub is necessary. Perhaps removing or reducing the size of items at the center of the hub is necessary. Perhaps modification of main street to widen the path is necessary. Perhaps rebuilding the fronts of Main Streets stores to allow for a few more feet on each side is necessary.

I'm quite certain that the cost benefit of some architectural modifications to the existing main st/hub area would be a much better option than cutting through to TL....and it would preserve some of the issues I raised above.


Just my $0.02....
 

bjlc57

Well-Known Member
Would those be the same insiders discussing the press event last night that detailed the largest expansion the MK has seen in decades? Or the same insiders who are consistently discussing the new rides and attractions they anticipate coming to fruition within the next several years?

And comparing GM and Disney? :hammer:

Tell us the NEW RIDES NAMED.. Tell us the new attractions coming.. Tell us ONE thing that's coming that's an E ticket.. go ahead.. Rumors and plans are one thing.. UNLESS its given the GREEN LIGHT.. and even THEN, it may not happen..

don't believe me.. go to the ghost hotel outside of Pop Century.. for years it was abandoned.. Finally now.. its going to be redone.. but I hate to guess how many homeless gators, racoons, rats, and people were kicked out of there when the workers finally came back..

Rumors and maps of plans have been around for years.. out and out drawings for major attractions and LANDS were done.. set in what seemed to be stone...

and guess what , the bean counters took it all away.. with the swipe of a pen stroke or the lack thereafter... stuff that was supposed to be done YEARS AGO never happened.. The Cali Rapids ride is like one half the length it was "SUPPOSED" to be..

there is a major dead space in the Magic kingdom where some new ride was "supposed to be built.. " .. right by buzz lightyear.. how about when 20k was destroyed.. and left as a meet and great.. and had water running in it for YEARS.. waiting to be restored..

so unless you know of some inside plans that have the green light.. You need to start listening and seeing what has happened.. nothing..

Disney had "Blow Henry Potter out of the water plans.. "All scrapped..


sorry.. but if there was a new ride or an e ticket on the table.. we would already know about it.. its not coming any time soon..

there is next to nothing coming any time soon.. its all on hold and all wait and see.. and all in the hands of the bean counters..
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Tell us the NEW RIDES NAMED.. Tell us the new attractions coming.. Tell us ONE thing that's coming that's an E ticket.. go ahead.. Rumors and plans are one thing.. UNLESS its given the GREEN LIGHT.. and even THEN, it may not happen..

don't believe me.. go to the ghost hotel outside of Pop Century.. for years it was abandoned.. Finally now.. its going to be redone.. but I hate to guess how many homeless gators, racoons, rats, and people were kicked out of there when the workers finally came back..

Rumors and maps of plans have been around for years.. out and out drawings for major attractions and LANDS were done.. set in what seemed to be stone...

and guess what , the bean counters took it all away.. with the swipe of a pen stroke or the lack thereafter... stuff that was supposed to be done YEARS AGO never happened.. The Cali Rapids ride is like one half the length it was "SUPPOSED" to be..

there is a major dead space in the Magic kingdom where some new ride was "supposed to be built.. " .. right by buzz lightyear.. how about when 20k was destroyed.. and left as a meet and great.. and had water running in it for YEARS.. waiting to be restored..

so unless you know of some inside plans that have the green light.. You need to start listening and seeing what has happened.. nothing..

Disney had "Blow Henry Potter out of the water plans.. "All scrapped..


sorry.. but if there was a new ride or an e ticket on the table.. we would already know about it.. its not coming any time soon..

there is next to nothing coming any time soon.. its all on hold and all wait and see.. and all in the hands of the bean counters..
Just out of curiosity...You have seen the construction pictures of the largest expansion in MK history haven't you?
 

bjlc57

Well-Known Member
I have seen any thing.. but I did read the post by Lee about the new e ticket and I have retracted some of my words..

but again.. it's not BLOW Harry Potter out of the Water type stuff for one e ticket..

and I haven't heard of any other ride.. expansion.. what does that mean? more hotels. No rides? more restaurants , no rides? more golf courses? no rides.. more Disney vacation club? no rides.. ?

tell me a new ride beside the one that Lee mentioned.. tell me a new addition to Animal Kingdom or MGM.. or a new Land or country with a ride in the World Showcase..

heck tell me that they are bring back the Adventures's CLUB..

some thing thats' a ride or an attraction and not a hotel, golf course, Vacation club or place to eat.. and some thing of substance..

because Lee down played the fanstasy land expansion well over a year ago..

and magic Kingdom needs a new E ticket ride.. MGM needs three of them.. and Animal Kingdom needs another two..

one new ride.. which is not yet GREEN LIT.. and I hope it is,,, doesn't exactly cut it.. not after how many years of stand still.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
I have seen any thing.. but I did read the post by Lee about the new e ticket and I have retracted some of my words..

but again.. it's not BLOW Harry Potter out of the Water type stuff for one e ticket..

and I haven't heard of any other ride.. expansion.. what does that mean? more hotels. No rides? more restaurants , no rides? more golf courses? no rides.. more Disney vacation club? no rides.. ?

tell me a new ride beside the one that Lee mentioned.. tell me a new addition to Animal Kingdom or MGM.. or a new Land or country with a ride in the World Showcase..

heck tell me that they are bring back the Adventures's CLUB..

some thing thats' a ride or an attraction and not a hotel, golf course, Vacation club or place to eat.. and some thing of substance..

because Lee down played the fanstasy land expansion well over a year ago..

and magic Kingdom needs a new E ticket ride.. MGM needs three of them.. and Animal Kingdom needs another two..

one new ride.. which is not yet GREEN LIT.. and I hope it is,,, doesn't exactly cut it.. not after how many years of stand still.
So you are saying that the Fantasyland expansion that is currently under construction is nothing and it does not have any attractions?
 

menamechris

Well-Known Member
So you are saying that the Fantasyland expansion that is currently under construction is nothing and it does not have any attractions?

I think I can see where you both are coming from. The expansion is significant, and no doubt will be amazing. But if we are being honest, it really isn't THAT amazing for anyone who isn't a huge fan of Disney. And as of yet, it doesn't seem to be bringing anything attractions-wise that will make an average guest (not a hardcore Disney fan) run to the gate opening day. I doubt the average American will change their plans to see re-theming of existing attractions and essentially a kiddie-coaster. It will be amazing, no doubt - but even as much as I love the parks, I am not losing sleep anxiously awaiting the new Fantasyland....
 

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