Lee
Adventurer
It was proposed a couple years ago.
No idea of its current status.
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Wilderness Lodge DVC additions - Copper Creek Villas & Cabins
- Thread starter danlb_2000
- Start date
No idea of its current status.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
My gut says the next DVC will either be at CBR or the parking lot at EPCOT (that would be an amazing way to not add anything for WDW's 50th but claim you did, since the entrance would be reworked). They'll simply bulldoze one of the 'islands' -- likely Trinidad South if I recall my names correctly as I haven't stayed there in a decade -- and put up a smaller building with facilities on par with the others.
WDWdream97
Well-Known Member
I could picture them adding a new country complete with in-park hotel like Tokyo DisneySea's MiraCosta, of course this new hotel would feature many DVC units.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
The 'issue' that many of us have with the DVCing of WDW is the resort wasn't built to be The Timeshare Kingdom of the World. And, no matter how you slice it, adding timeshares lowers quality. When you can buy Tombstone frozen pizzas and Oscar Mayer Bologna and Ham at the resort gift shop, you aren't staying at a deluxe resort.
It changes the entire makeup of the resort. And not having daily housekeeping is great at saving Disney from paying those slaves ... oops, I mean ... CMs from the islands the $27 an hour that they pay! But it sure does nothing to keep the units in top condition. As an 'owner' I'm already seeing the day that I have to demand to be moved because the unit I 'own' is falling apart and they tell me that they have nothing available. Angie hates confrontation, so I'm sure she'll love hearing me yelling at CMs.
But the issue is simple. And it was discussed quite well (with financial data from @ParentsOf4) in the 8th Wonder thread. WDW has problems filling its deluxe rooms because of a faulty business model that features ever-increasing prices annually. No, that isn't how the rest of the industry works. Even in O-Town.
There are hotels that charged $150 a night a decade ago ... and still do today (or close enough). WDW never has a year when they don't raise prices. And you only have so many rubes and so many people with no sense of the value of money and BRAND addicts willing to pay $300-1000 a night for standard hotel rooms.
Believe me, if you still could regularly get rooms at the WL for under $250 a night, the place would run at over 90% occupancy year round -- and Disney would be making a huge profit.
They don't want huge. They want obscene. And there just aren't enough people willing.
DVC is literally like a cancer taking over the entire resort. Only six years ago, there wasn't a monorail resort that had it. Now, they all do.
Oh, and you have to love the entitlement 'tude of so many DVCers. They never could afford staying at WDW deluxes, so that's what they want. They don't want dedicated DVC resorts like OKW and SS, which are both quite nice. What they want is exactly what you see ... and it is a cash cow, albeit short term, for Disney.
It's gotta stop soon in O-Town because I don't see people clamoring for the Pop Century Villas!
It changes the entire makeup of the resort. And not having daily housekeeping is great at saving Disney from paying those slaves ... oops, I mean ... CMs from the islands the $27 an hour that they pay! But it sure does nothing to keep the units in top condition. As an 'owner' I'm already seeing the day that I have to demand to be moved because the unit I 'own' is falling apart and they tell me that they have nothing available. Angie hates confrontation, so I'm sure she'll love hearing me yelling at CMs.
But the issue is simple. And it was discussed quite well (with financial data from @ParentsOf4) in the 8th Wonder thread. WDW has problems filling its deluxe rooms because of a faulty business model that features ever-increasing prices annually. No, that isn't how the rest of the industry works. Even in O-Town.
There are hotels that charged $150 a night a decade ago ... and still do today (or close enough). WDW never has a year when they don't raise prices. And you only have so many rubes and so many people with no sense of the value of money and BRAND addicts willing to pay $300-1000 a night for standard hotel rooms.
Believe me, if you still could regularly get rooms at the WL for under $250 a night, the place would run at over 90% occupancy year round -- and Disney would be making a huge profit.
They don't want huge. They want obscene. And there just aren't enough people willing.
DVC is literally like a cancer taking over the entire resort. Only six years ago, there wasn't a monorail resort that had it. Now, they all do.
Oh, and you have to love the entitlement 'tude of so many DVCers. They never could afford staying at WDW deluxes, so that's what they want. They don't want dedicated DVC resorts like OKW and SS, which are both quite nice. What they want is exactly what you see ... and it is a cash cow, albeit short term, for Disney.
It's gotta stop soon in O-Town because I don't see people clamoring for the Pop Century Villas!
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
Nah. They considered an in-park DVC with units above and behind several nations (I believe from France to the AA was considered, but could be off). The cost of doing so and having the infrastructure changed just made it unpalatable.
BTW, that idea was 'borrowed' from the original Westcot proposal for Anaheim, which would have featured hotel rooms over their pavilions (they weren't themed to nations, but continents/areas like Asia for instance).
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
I could see them making several Value suites (like at ASM or AoA) and selling them as part of overall DVC inventory.
ParentsOf4
Well-Known Member
I suspect there would be a tremendous market for a relatively inexpensive WDW timeshare option such as "Pop Century Villas".
However, such an option almost certainly would undercut sales of WDW's more lucrative Deluxe Resort timeshares.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I would be shocked if they ever built anything other than a "deluxe" DVC. The economics don't work since they would have to charge less for the points. Adding a DVC to a moderate resort and selling it for the same price as all of the others...that I could see.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
They wouldn't have to charge less for points. Price-per-point could be equal but then points-per-night would be cheaper.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
It still doesn't work. If you charge less points per night then total points sold would be less reducing total revenue.
CaptainAmerica
Premium Member
Well yeah, that's to be expected. Just like one room night at POP results in less revenue than one room night at the Poly, I would expect one week's worth of "value" DVC points to yield less revenue than one week's worth of "deluxe" DVC points.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
It would not be hard to convert AOA's Cars section over to the AoA Villas.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
It would not be hard to convert the AoA Cars section over to the AoA Villas. They could even build a small dock with a dozen paddleboats exclusive to the DVC.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
The value resorts make up for lower prices with volume. Each resort has 2,000+ rooms. if they built a huge value DVC resort it might work, but they are unlikely to repeat that as SSR isn't exactly a huge draw. There is way more money to be made on adding DVC to deluxe resorts.
Take BLT as an example. They sold 5.7m points for roughly 400 rooms. Even if you only cut the number of points per night in half you would need at least 800 rooms to generate the same revenue, but doubling the size adds cost so you would probably need more like 1,200 to 1,500 rooms.
andysol
Well-Known Member
We don't know the details- or even what the expiration of the converted rooms are (I wouldnt think itd be 2042- but maybe?). It's only 16 ft difference, so its not really that big of a deal. Really- this is the first time we've ever seen this done- adding onto an existing DVC resort in a current Deluxe area. I'm interested to hear what is going to happen.
Aulani has Tombstone pizza in it. Does that make it not a deluxe resort? Or is it the best resort of any property that Disney owns? From the location, to the pools, to the activities, to the theming, to the shows, etc. My point is- pizza doesn't detract from a resort unless you're desperately grabbing at straws.
Like I said in an earlier post- I can point you right at Animal Kingdom- arguably the other best Resort Disney owns. It wouldn't be near the resort it is now without DVC. Between the pools, activities, and some of- if not the most unique restaurants on property. You can agree with that- correct?
Edit: I could also add Boardwalk- would that exist without DVC? I can't believe that there is an argument that DVC detracts from Disney.
More misinformation. If you are renting on a cash basis- you still get daily mousekeeping. Only DVC owners get the every 4/7days mousekeeping.
Of course we don't want Pop Century. But where do you get your all-knowing knowledge of DVC owners? While the Poly is great- VWL isn't really the same. VWL is one of the easier to book DVC resorts out there- even with limited capacity. The only dates that fill up before 7 months is Christmas. So there is no need for more DVC units at VWL from a demand-perspective of DVC owners.
If you polled DVC owners- I would assure you they would prefer a standalone new resort at Rivercountry vs a conversion of VWL rooms.
If you poll Disney- they want room occupancy to be full, while keeping their insane deluxe resort prices- and that's why they are converting. So please, save the "entitled 'tude" talk for someone that would believe you.
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cspencer96
Well-Known Member
I really don't understand how offering more grocery choices at a gift shop aligns with lowering quality of a resort. If anything, it adds to it. It's a nice plus to have that selection available at the DVC locations, and I've heard that from non-members. They like being able to go buy bread and peanut butter and make sandwiches if they want, or just get some pizza rolls for their in-room microwave late at night. This statement, and others in that post that I'm not going to quote, just bleeds pompous arrogance and it really is unfounded. Hate the finances and logistics of DVC all you want, but don't bash members and don't make claims that pizza and sandwich meat in the grocery section of a gift shop somehow cheapens your experience.
EDIT: And yes, I get that Pizza Rolls and a microwave aren't traditonal in the Deluxe setting. Apparently all guests of "Deluxe" resorts are supposed to order room service or dine out for 100% of meals. With families, regardless of financial status, that is not always the case. Even when it's a group of college students like myself (and we didn't have a very limited budget), we took advantage of the grocer at AKV and VWL for late night snacks and anything to satisfy the munchies that come on just about every two hours with four guys.
Point is, Disney's Deluxe Resort category is NOT the Four Seasons when it comes to target demographics. Disney is much broader in some ways, and they cater to that. Adding DVC grocery sections just adds to the benefits.
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ABQ
Well-Known Member
Wasn't this done in the Jambo house at Animal Kingdom? Or were those always DVC rooms built into that resort?
cspencer96
Well-Known Member
Technically that was more similar to Poly. It wasn't existing DVC, they created it by converting part of two floors from Non-DVC and Concierge to DVC/Concierge/DVC Concierge. This would be the first time (afaik) that they add to the DVC property at a resort by removing standard cash rooms from the Deluxe Resort property.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I think why this may be different is studios. VWL doesn't have them available now and they are popular amongst some DVC owners. That could be the draw.