ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
VWL has studios. I'm booked in one for January 2016.
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Wilderness Lodge DVC additions - Copper Creek Villas & Cabins
- Thread starter danlb_2000
- Start date
doctornick
Well-Known Member
As mentioned, VWL does have studios (it does not have 3BR Grand Villas though). IIRC, after the recent refurb, now the studios at VWL can accomodate 5 people while the 1 BR still only fit 4 people.
RandomLurker
New Member
Kind of-
But it's different in that it was all during the initial stages. Here we're talking about a DVC resort that was built 15 years ago.
I wonder if they'll offer extensions like they did with OKW years ago. It's going to be very interesting to say the least. I wouldn't be shocked it they made a completely separate VWL and it expired in 50 years. Calling them VWL&T (and tepees)
I don't usually post - but this is worthy of comment....
Being a VWL DVC member... when we bought our points, there were two VERY IMPORTANT elements in the contract:
1) A property description. What is described IS the property that dues paying members must support.
2) The same limitation on Disney as every other DVC property - the TOTAL NUMBER OF POINTS may not be increased.
For these reasons, I strongly suspect that the WL Hotel Conversion will be a totally separate DVC offering. It would be close to "DVC Suicide" for Disney to get into a situation where potential buyers would NOT know if the total number of points for sale could change, or if the property description could radically change. This sort of thing could have a very negative impact on ALL DVC sales.
Of course - they could just buy us out, and start all over with a "new" VWL
.I'm looking on this one with interest - I think it's just about the first time Disney has built a DVC in a location that already HAS one
.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Sorry. I didn't mean it doesn't have them at all just that it doesn't have enough supply since the resort is on the small side. If they just reuse hotel rooms like Poly it will likely be all studios which will make the supply plentiful. I think it will appeal to the same type of owners as Poly.
There are 2 basic types of DVC owners:
- Those looking to stay in villas with larger, condo style accommodations: kitchens, living room and washer/dryer.
- Those looking to stay mostly in studios and use DVC as a more affordable way to stay in deluxe studios and/or stay longer.
The Poly DVC and this project if it's structured the same way (all studios) will appeal more to potential new owners in category 2.
I personally have no interest in studios so it would do nothing for me but I know the studios tend to book fastest at most resorts. I would much rather see them build the River Country DVC with a mix of rooms or something near EPCOT.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Interesting point. I would think they would want the new contracts to extend beyond 2042 so they would have to be somewhat independent. I guess they could have 3 independent entities, 2 DVC plus the hotel splitting everything.I don't usually post - but this is worthy of comment....
Being a VWL DVC member... when we bought our points, there were two VERY IMPORTANT elements in the contract:
1) A property description. What is described IS the property that dues paying members must support.
2) The same limitation on Disney as every other DVC property - the TOTAL NUMBER OF POINTS may not be increased.
For these reasons, I strongly suspect that the WL Hotel Conversion will be a totally separate DVC offering. It would be close to "DVC Suicide" for Disney to get into a situation where potential buyers would NOT know if the total number of points for sale could change, or if the property description could radically change. This sort of thing could have a very negative impact on ALL DVC sales.
Of course - they could just buy us out, and start all over with a "new" VWL
I'm looking on this one with interest - I think it's just about the first time Disney has built a DVC in a location that already HAS one
Anyone know how AK did this? It's not exactly the same since the conversion was close to the opening.
Captain Neo
Well-Known Member
I really wish dvc was never created. It completely ruined WDW
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I don't know that I agree with that, but teepees over the water would destroy the theme of WL (and make no sense since teepees aren't built over water). I hope they think better of it as there is little appeal of such a villa as it provides no unique view. While the bungalows arguably have a negative impact on everyone else's view, I can obviously see the appeal for the millionaires who book he bungalows themselves. Less so with a teepee on Bay Lake.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I fully believe wdw1974 when he says the plans he saw had "tepees over the water". He has a good track record so it's probably true. The good thing we have going for us is plans change all of the time at WDW. Maybe they won't make the final cut. If they wanted to do stand alone units they should shoot for something along the lines of tree house villas. Something like luxury private cabins in the woods. That would perfectly fit the theme of Wilderness Lodge. I know they have cabins at the camp ground but these could be a higher end version.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
No point arguing with this highly rational statement.
I will say that DVC may have actually ruined the Polynesian.
polynesiangirl
Well-Known Member
More than anything I'm just surprised at how much DVC seems to be selling! I've looked into it multiple times over the past decade -- and even now that my husband and I are making far more than we did as newlyweds, we still can't stomach the cost. It's shocking to me that so many people are buying in (I mean no disrespect to our DVC members here -- I have relatives who own DVC too -- I just can't believe so many people can afford it!)
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Who cares about affording it. That's never stopped anyone before
.Seriously, I would guess a significant percentage of WDW guests really can't afford it for vacations.
As far as DVC goes if you bought a small contract resale it's not that hard to swing. Buying 100 points at $70 would run you $7,000 plus $500 to $600 a year in maintenance fees. Now I'm not saying most people have $7,000 just lying around but if you save up or maybe skip a vacation one or 2 years its not hard that hard to get to. Plus if you plan to visit WDW every year or at least every other year you are probably not struggling to make ends meet (or at least you shouldn't be). People buying into DVC are probably regularly spending $5K plus on a WDW vacation.
I don't understand how anyone can think more DVC rooms is a bad thing. DVC seems to be oversold all the time, I would think more rooms are desperately needed.
I don't know the exact numbers but I would think Disney hotel rooms are high margin. Anything that results in people visiting more often & stay longer = more revenue. How exactly is that a bad thing?
I don't know the exact numbers but I would think Disney hotel rooms are high margin. Anything that results in people visiting more often & stay longer = more revenue. How exactly is that a bad thing?
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Technically DVC can't be oversold. There is a fixed number of points that equals the number of room nights available. A given resort could have demand that exceeds supply but that's due to people trading in.
There could be a point where too many DVCs is a bad thing for both Disney and current DVC owners. For current owners, overbuild could weaken the resale market and if newer resorts built are less desirable it could make trading in for more desireable locations even harder. As an example if they were to build all studio DVC at moderate and/or value resorts it wouldn't appeal to me for trading in, but that adds a lot more owners to compete with to trade into places I'd like to stay like BCV during the summer or a place like GFV.
For Disney overbuild could eventually lead to problems selling points and/or foreclosures. DVC is selling really well now, but the most recent additions were at very popular deluxe resorts. It will be interesting to see how fast these new points will sell if they do go forward with another WL DVC addition.
NiarrNDisney
Well-Known Member
Can I just say that I think that a new bar highly themed like Trader Sam's but to the Frontier and the Wild West would be a wonderful addition somewhere on the resorts property! Maybe even somewhere along the waters edge between Fort Wilderness and Wilderness Lodge.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
How about on Tom Sawyer Island? Now that they allow booze in MK it could work.
NiarrNDisney
Well-Known Member
Lets turn it into a real Pleasure Island (Pinocchio)
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Or perhaps we've finally figured out a good use for old Discovery Island.
GoofGoof
Premium Member
You just don't want to pass out and miss the last boat back to the mainland. It's a long swim and I hear there are gators in that water.
Cosmic Commando
Well-Known Member
The big profit from DVC comes from selling the points when the villas are new... or "new" in this case. That money left Parks & Resorts years ago as stock buyback $$$, executive compensation, makegood for poorer divisions, dividend, etc. and it ain't coming back. I'm not sure how much (if any) profit Disney is allowed to make as a "contractor" for things like buses, front desk service in some places, etc., but the yearly dues are legally obligated to be tied to the actual costs of running the resort. They can't just raise dues because they had a bad quarter. So you end up with all of these DVC rooms running at cost, instead of hotel rooms that could be bringing in rates above their operating cost year after year. Disney is borrowing from future revenue when they build DVC.
There could have been a different way... imagine if those huge lump sums of money from selling points were kept at WDW. You would still have lots of rooms running at cost, but you could use the literally hundreds of millions from selling points to fund new capital projects that will drive demand for additional regular hotel rooms in the future. The money from BLT alone probably could have paid for at least two new E-tickets, even with the way WDI spends money. Oh, what could have been...
GoofGoof
Premium Member
Agreed. This is what has happened. In defense of DVC itself it's really Iger and crew not reinvesting the profits that is the problem. DVC is successful from a business standpoint. Think of it this way. If you think of DVC or hotel room profits as winning the lottery, DVC is like taking the lump sum payout up front while cash rooms are like taking the annuity. If they took the cash payout and invested it properly there wouldn't be a problem. Instead Iger and crew spent the cash like an NBA superstar. It's gone and WDW has little to show for it except lower future hotel profits.
The other negative now is DVC point sales have become a part of the P&R run rate for each year. If they stop selling points the numbers will drop which could hurt the stock price and will definitely reflect poorly on the P&R segment. They are literally addicted to DVC profits. That's fine now, but at some point they will run out of locations or demand for DVC.
The bottom line is DVC isn't inherently evil and the business issues with it have nothing to do with DVC owners or the resorts themselves. It's poor decisions by senior management on reinvesting those profits that is the real problem.