Wilderness Lodge DVC additions - Copper Creek Villas & Cabins

[LAKid53]

It's negative when they start taking resort rooms away from the rest of us. For example, the Poly lost three buildings to DVC which now decreases my chances of getting a discounted traditional room. So that ticks me off.

Since the start of DVC and the emergence of the Dining Plan, Disney quality has steadily gone down hill. It's all a scam and charade to sugar coat the price gauging. They price the food so high it makes the dining plan look like a good deal. The price of the DVC rooms are insane, again to make buying into DVC look like a smart idea. They can't fill the deluxe resort rooms so they decrease inventory to pad the numbers. Slick corporate crap.

WL has 728 rooms, compared to 867 at the Grand Floridian and 847 at the Poly (before conversion I think). So if you take two floors of the South wing, that will leave under 700 non-DVC rooms.

 

[GoofGoof]

Good point. However, I still think Disney is going to ruin WL by converting some of the rooms to DVC studios. And very small DVC studios since the rooms at WL are small compared to say the Poly.

I agree. I usually book either a 1BR or 2BR. With Poly, at least the studios are amongst the largest in DVC, but I still probably won't stay there. A converted studio room at WL has no interest to me.

Putting personal preference aside, from a business perspective if WL was really running at poor occupancy levels than it makes a lot of sense to do a conversion. No point spending more to build a new DVC resort like the tabled River Country one if there are existing rooms going unused.

It's negative when they start taking resort rooms away from the rest of us. For example, the Poly lost three buildings to DVC which now decreases my chances of getting a discounted traditional room. So that ticks me off.

Since the start of DVC and the emergence of the Dining Plan, Disney quality has steadily gone down hill. It's all a scam and charade to sugar coat the price gauging. They price the food so high it makes the dining plan look like a good deal. The price of the DVC rooms are insane, again to make buying into DVC look like a smart idea. They can't fill the deluxe resort rooms so they decrease inventory to pad the numbers. Slick corporate crap.

That's the plan. Remove supply and eliminate the need to offer discounted rooms or free dining to fill the remaining rooms:

1. Make a large gain upfront selling DVC points.
2. Cut half of your operating and maintenance costs at the resort by having DVC owner's maintenance fees foot part of the bill.
3. Make a killing on renting the remaining hotel rooms at full price. No more deep discounts.
4. Guarantee near full occupancy for at least half the resort almost all of the time. This helps boost revenues from things like restaurants, shops and paid activities at the resorts.

 

[GoofGoof]

WL has 728 rooms, compared to 867 at the Grand Floridian and 847 at the Poly (before conversion I think). So if you take two floors of the South wing, that will leave under 700 non-DVC rooms.

I thought some of the speculation was more like converting 300 rooms to DVC. Something like 40% of existing rooms and on par with the recent Poly project.

 

[LAKid53]

I agree. I usually book either a 1BR or 2BR. With Poly, at least the studios are amongst the largest in DVC, but I still probably won't stay there. A converted studio room at WL has no interest to me.

Putting personal preference aside, from a business perspective if WL was really running at poor occupancy levels than it makes a lot of sense to do a conversion. No point spending more to build a new DVC resort like the tabled River Country one if there are existing rooms going unused.


That's the plan. Remove supply and eliminate the need to offer discounted rooms or free dining to fill the remaining rooms:

1. Make a large gain upfront selling DVC points.
2. Cut half of your operating and maintenance costs at the resort by having DVC owner's maintenance fees foot part of the bill.
3. Make a killing on renting the remaining hotel rooms at full price. No more deep discounts.
4. Guarantee near full occupancy for at least half the resort almost all of the time. This helps boost revenues from things like restaurants, shops and paid activities at the resorts.

Could part of the poor occupancy level at WL last year be due to the renovations to the pool and stream inside the lobby? I would imagine occupancy at Poly was down during the 2 years of the construction/conversion to DVC.

Personally, I cannot understand why WL, other than the rehab period last year, would have low occupancy. It's one of the least expensive deluxes, is a MK resort, arguable the most beautiful of all the properties (GF is nice, but the grounds at WL are amazing and make me forget I'm at WDW), etc.

 

[LAKid53]

I thought some of the speculation was more like converting 300 rooms to DVC. Something like 40% of existing rooms and on par with the recent Poly project.

Wow, that many?! That will make it the smallest of all the Deluxes. I think Yacht Club and Beach Club each have about 600 rooms. Bad idea. And will ruin WL.

 

[GoofGoof]

Could part of the poor occupancy level at WL last year be due to the renovations to the pool and stream inside the lobby? I would imagine occupancy at Poly was down during the 2 years of the construction/conversion to DVC.

Personally, I cannot understand why WL, other than the rehab period last year, would have low occupancy. It's one of the least expensive deluxes, is a MK resort, arguable the most beautiful of all the properties (GF is nice, but the grounds at WL are amazing and make me forget I'm at WDW), etc.

The company doesn't release detailed info on occupancy so it's hard to say when and why the numbers were down. That's coming from insiders here who have non-public info. The theory is that the high prices are the biggest driver. I don't think it was limited to just WL. From what I've read here all of the Deluxes are down which is why they started converting rooms to DVC.

 

[GoofGoof]

Wow, that many?! That will make it the smallest of all the Deluxes. I think Yacht Club and Beach Club each have about 600 rooms. Bad idea. And will ruin WL.

They might be next in line. I think Poly is down to about 500 cash rooms now.

 

[LAKid53]

The company doesn't release detailed info on occupancy so it's hard to say when and why the numbers were down. That's coming from insiders here who have non-public info. The theory is that the high prices are the biggest driver. I don't think it was limited to just WL. From what I've read here all of the Deluxes are down which is why they started converting rooms to DVC.

Instead of lowering the room prices.

 

[LAKid53]

They might be next in line. I think Poly is down to about 500 cash rooms now.

Beach Club already has DVC rooms, so they'd have to convert cash rooms at Yacht Club to DVC. And the only Deluxe resort left that will have cash only rooms will be the GF. Sad.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

For non-DVC owners who are unlikely to enjoy the rooms, there is going to be a negative slant. Nothing in it for them. It's human nature.

I disagree. I'm not DVC but I love when they add inventory because I like the options the Villas give me as a cash guest. People keep telling horror stories about availability but my cast member friends ALWAYS see availability for studios and villas at VWL, Kidani, OKW, and Saratoga at least, with Boardwalk units harder to come by.

The over water things at Poly are a different story. I personally don't think they look as bad as many other people seem to, but they do cut down on what was once a pretty nice beach area. I'm not a huge fan.

That beach was always gross IMO.

 

[GoofGoof]

Beach Club already has DVC rooms, so they'd have to convert cash rooms at Yacht Club to DVC. And the only Deluxe resort left that will have cash only rooms will be the GF. Sad.

BCV is small but popular. There was some speculation that they would maybe convert some cash rooms to DVC, but now that they are refurbing all of the hotel rooms it seems less likely to happen any time soon. YC has a pretty lucrative convention business so they may leave it as is too. The other rumor is they are looking at Caribbean Beach Resort for DVC as well.

Of course this is all just speculation based on rumors so who knows if any of it happens. I'd rather see a new DVC resort like the one rumored for EPCOT.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Instead of lowering the room prices.

Do you realize how brainless of a business decision it would be to lower prices for rooms you can't sell out anyways rather than raising prices and filling the place?

Who cares about rooms that are "cash only" when you're perfectly free to USE cash to stay in a "points room"?

 

[LAKid53]

BCV is small but popular. There was some speculation that they would maybe convert some cash rooms to DVC, but now that they are refurbing all of the hotel rooms it seems less likely to happen any time soon. YC has a pretty lucrative convention business so they may leave it as is too. The other rumor is they are looking at Caribbean Beach Resort for DVC as well.

Of course this is all just speculation based on rumors so who knows if any of it happens. I'd rather see a new DVC resort like the one rumored for EPCOT.

CBR converted to DVC? That will be interesting. Where will they put the fitness center? And they will need to upgrade Shutters since all the other DVC resorts have quality restaurants.

 

[GoofGoof]

I disagree. I'm not DVC but I love when they add inventory because I like the options the Villas give me as a cash guest. People keep telling horror stories about availability but my cast member friends ALWAYS see availability for studios and villas at VWL, Kidani, OKW, and Saratoga at least, with Boardwalk units harder to come by.


That beach was always gross IMO.

Well there is no advantage to converting studio rooms to DVC rooms for non-owners. If you rent villas from resorts when available then you do enjoy the rooms and don't meet the qualification for what I stated: for non-DVC owners who are unlikely to enjoy the rooms...

 

[LAKid53]

Do you realize how brainless of a business decision it would be to lower prices for rooms you can't sell out anyways rather than raising prices and filling the place?

Who cares about rooms that are "cash only" when you're perfectly free to USE cash to stay in a "points room"?

Except that a cash room converted to a DVC studio is going to be smaller than the studio at the separate DVC property. But you will still pay the same - either in cash or points.

 

[GoofGoof]

CBR converted to DVC? That will be interesting. Where will they put the fitness center? And they will need to upgrade Shutters since all the other DVC resorts have quality restaurants.

There was talk of it a while back in another thread. No details on how it would work. There was talk of establishing a boat to being guests to EPCOT directly. They would likely demolish part of the resort and build new DVC rooms.

Here's a link to an article about all of these rumors. A lot of this is based on the Spirited 8th thread here where most of the rumors were broken first:

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resorts-48755/other-proposed-resorts-89555/2684-the-next-decade-of-dvc

 

[LAKid53]

Do you realize how brainless of a business decision it would be to lower prices for rooms you can't sell out anyways rather than raising prices and filling the place?

Who cares about rooms that are "cash only" when you're perfectly free to USE cash to stay in a "points room"?

If I were a non-owner wanting to stay at a DVC resort, I would buy points through places like Dave's DVC rentals, rather than pay cash - it's cheaper. For the week of June 7th to June 13th, the cash price for a 1 bedroom villa at WL is $3,867.67. The week & room through Dave's is $3,080. I think many visitors would love to save nearly $800 on their resort room rental. Unfortunately, no studios are available for cash rental during that week, but Dave's price is $1,428 - I think a studio is around $400/night cash price which would be $2800. Dave's is half the cost.

And remember, when discounts on resort rooms are available, typically the DVC resorts are excluded.

 

[LAKid53]

There was talk of it a while back in another thread. No details on how it would work. There was talk of establishing a boat to being guests to EPCOT directly. They would likely demolish part of the resort and build new DVC rooms.

Here's a link to an article about all of these rumors. A lot of this is based on the Spirited 8th thread here where most of the rumors were broken first:

http://dvcnews.com/index.php/resorts-48755/other-proposed-resorts-89555/2684-the-next-decade-of-dvc

I stayed at CBR a couple of times. How would the boat get from CBR to EPCOT? I didn't think the lake/lagoon/whatever was connected.

 

[GoofGoof]

I stayed at CBR a couple of times. How would the boat get from CBR to EPCOT? I didn't think the lake/lagoon/whatever was connected.

The waterway is not connected currently. CBR is pretty close to the World Showcase side of EPCOT so they would need to extend a few waterways. It's doable. I think maybe @Lee or @WDW1974 mentioned the possibility of this happening a while ago. No clue if it's on the table anymore.

 

[LAKid53]

The waterway is not connected currently. CBR is pretty close to the World Showcase side of EPCOT so they would need to extend a few waterways. It's doable. I think maybe @Lee or @WDW1974 mentioned the possibility of this happening a while ago. No clue if it's on the table anymore.

I would like to see Disney extend the waterways, if possible.