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Why is there no walkway from the Transportation and Ticket Center to Magic Kingdom?

Driver

Well-Known Member
Parks are designed to an annual attendance and the 10 million visitors design of the Magic Kingdom is rather well known.
I've said it before and I'll say it again Disney does not and will not disclose exactly how many are in the parks. They are very tight lipped about this information. Numbers that get posted to the public and the actual count are not the same.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
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I've said it before and I'll say it again Disney does not and will not disclose exactly how many are in the parks. They are very tight lipped about this information. Numbers that get posted to the public and the actual count are not the same.
Disney advertised the design capacity of the park in the late 1960s and early 1970s.
 

MisterPenguin

Rumormonger
Premium Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again Disney does not and will not disclose exactly how many are in the parks. They are very tight lipped about this information. Numbers that get posted to the public and the actual count are not the same.
When TEA publishes those numbers, you can bet a theme park would squawk loudly if the numbers were way too low. They'd would also tend to correct others using those numbers... and they don't. Just in this forum, I'm sure there are those that know the real numbers and I haven't seen them say TEAs numbers are significantly off. And TEA tunes their system of estimating numbers for those parks that don't release their numbers against those that do. And TEA publishes its numbers as part of a professional colloquium of theme park professionals. If TEAs numbers were off, you can be sure there'd be dozens of members of their own organization criticizing it, but they don't (AFAIK).

But let's say TEAs numbers are off by a whopping 10%. It would still mean MK is getting 80% more guests than it was designed for instead of 100% more.
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
What do you have to prove what you say is fact? And what proof do you have that what is taught at DU is fictional? Also how do you even know what is taught at DU?
Well we can start by looking at the original plans as they existed in Walt's time.
21567186_5.jpg
Here's the original entrance complex located just on the north side of 192. This is the southernmost point of the monorail other than the airport just south of it. The monorail then extends north through the industrial complex then through EPCOT (the city part) then up to the theme park. Now the question is knowing that the theme park will be the primary tourism draw why would you design your parking and put it almost ten miles away from the tourists destination? The concept of a weenie is heavily intertwined in everything Disney did and it's obvious Walt understood this. This would've been the biggest weenie ever. Walt made it clear that the most important part of this project was EPCOT so it's extremely obvious that the intent of this design was to give people what they came for but in the process show off EPCOT.

It'a also worth noting the monorails approach to the theme park wasn't all that spectacular. As you can see below the monorail approaches the park from the east. Looking out the sides of the monorail you likely wouldn't even see the park until you were there. There also was no lagoon to create those great views of the castle rising over the park across the water. It's pretty clear there was no real "grand reveal" designed into this.21567186_3.jpg

It wasn't until much later that this all changed and by the time it had EPCOT had disappeared from the plans. Considering this was a focus of Walt's even while he was dying in the hospital I think it's safe to assume he absolutely never envisioned the TTC where it is today in a position that cut out the plans for EPCOT (his dream).

The history of Disney, WDW and EPCOT has always been something that interested me. I've spent a lot of time over the years soaking up what knowledge I can, talking to people who had first hand knowledge of these things and researching available resources. Disney University by the way at least used to have a really good research library. I spent time in that library as well as took probably a lot more classes there than the average CM. I did traditions I think 3 or 4 times. The amount of times I had to bite my tongue to keep from correcting instructors is how I know some of the stuff they say is just plain fiction.
 

danyoung56

Well-Known Member
If you read his post nothing eludes to per year. So I had to assume he meant per day which is why I said " no way"
Sorry, but if you "had to assume" something, then you're just plain wrong. 10 mil a day is such a ridiculous number. It's like me saying that I'm starting a new job that's gonna pay me a mil a day. No one would post that the MK can take 10 mil a day. The OP could have been clearer, though.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Well-Known Member
It’s stifling hot for large portions of the year in Orlando...and today’s people are amazingly spoiled and whiney.

Nowhere moreso than WDW. Here ends that lesson.

But it’s not really a “security” thing...security other than shoplifting was always an afterthought - not a design feature. Now they probably get DHS money for Mickey cops to uselessly headfake bag searches. But it keeps the kids happy 😊
 

Driver

Well-Known Member
Well we can start by looking at the original plans as they existed in Walt's time.
View attachment 334571
Here's the original entrance complex located just on the north side of 192. This is the southernmost point of the monorail other than the airport just south of it. The monorail then extends north through the industrial complex then through EPCOT (the city part) then up to the theme park. Now the question is knowing that the theme park will be the primary tourism draw why would you design your parking and put it almost ten miles away from the tourists destination? The concept of a weenie is heavily intertwined in everything Disney did and it's obvious Walt understood this. This would've been the biggest weenie ever. Walt made it clear that the most important part of this project was EPCOT so it's extremely obvious that the intent of this design was to give people what they came for but in the process show off EPCOT.

It'a also worth noting the monorails approach to the theme park wasn't all that spectacular. As you can see below the monorail approaches the park from the east. Looking out the sides of the monorail you likely wouldn't even see the park until you were there. There also was no lagoon to create those great views of the castle rising over the park across the water. It's pretty clear there was no real "grand reveal" designed into this.View attachment 334572

It wasn't until much later that this all changed and by the time it had EPCOT had disappeared from the plans. Considering this was a focus of Walt's even while he was dying in the hospital I think it's safe to assume he absolutely never envisioned the TTC where it is today in a position that cut out the plans for EPCOT (his dream).

The history of Disney, WDW and EPCOT has always been something that interested me. I've spent a lot of time over the years soaking up what knowledge I can, talking to people who had first hand knowledge of these things and researching available resources. Disney University by the way at least used to have a really good research library. I spent time in that library as well as took probably a lot more classes there than the average CM. I did traditions I think 3 or 4 times. The amount of times I had to bite my tongue to keep from correcting instructors is how I know some of the stuff they say is just plain fiction.
You said "it's safe to assume " I call fowl on any assumption, the man has past. Also the images you have are not construction drawings they are artist concepts. So that doesn't prove a thing either. Also he died during the early part of construction. That fact alone says final construction drawings would have been issued. You don't start cutting into the earth for a major project with artist renditions. So Walt would still have been alive and at least have knowledge of the final master plan. Show me some "blue prints" and you will have my full attention. Because in the sixties that was still the norm. And I'm not silly enough to think that they didn't use artist renderings to communicate concepts and final outcomes. What I'm saying is "blue prints" are given to contractors for bid purposes and construction. With land purchased and construction started Walt was still alive and would have knowledge of the final drawings. His death came on suddenly, he didn't linger on for years out of touch with what was happening to his dream.
 

Driver

Well-Known Member
When TEA publishes those numbers, you can bet a theme park would squawk loudly if the numbers were way too low. They'd would also tend to correct others using those numbers... and they don't. Just in this forum, I'm sure there are those that know the real numbers and I haven't seen them say TEAs numbers are significantly off. And TEA tunes their system of estimating numbers for those parks that don't release their numbers against those that do. And TEA publishes its numbers as part of a professional colloquium of theme park professionals. If TEAs numbers were off, you can be sure there'd be dozens of members of their own organization criticizing it, but they don't (AFAIK).

But let's say TEAs numbers are off by a whopping 10%. It would still mean MK is getting 80% more guests than it was designed for instead of 100% more.
I completely understand what you are trying to say. And if this were a different subject you would probably be spot on in your assumption. However you are still using a document released to the public and by your own admission "assuming " . When you use expression like " you can bet" or " let's say" this is not hard information. You are trying to reach a conclusion with what I'm saying is not accurate. And so I guess it boils down to you " believe " the postings are true and we ( CM's) are "seeing " actual head count at the end of the day.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Well-Known Member
So many people doubtful of people being able to walk at the end of the day.

It's over a mile to walk from World Showcase to one's bus. It's over a mile to walk between DHS and Epcot, and people do it at the end of the day.

There are plenty of people who can walk all day long. They exist. I'm one of them.

Let alone all the marathoners...
Yes...but the layouts and transport aren’t designed with runners in mind. It’s the buffet crowd and God’s waiting room that has to be the priority
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
You said "it's safe to assume " I call fowl on any assumption, the man has past. Also the images you have are not construction drawings they are artist concepts. So that doesn't prove a thing either. Also he died during the early part of construction. That fact alone says final construction drawings would have been issued. You don't start cutting into the earth for a major project with artist renditions. So Walt would still have been alive and at least have knowledge of the final master plan. Show me some "blue prints" and you will have my full attention. Because in the sixties that was still the norm. And I'm not silly enough to think that they didn't use artist renderings to communicate concepts and final outcomes. What I'm saying is "blue prints" are given to contractors for bid purposes and construction. With land purchased and construction started Walt was still alive and would have knowledge of the final drawings. His death came on suddenly, he didn't linger on for years out of touch with what was happening to his dream.
You obviously don't know what you're talking about, perhaps you've been listening to some of those Traditions facilitators? Walt Disney died 12/15/66, groundbreaking of WDW occurred on 5/30/67, with construction beginning in April of '69. All work on the property took place well after Walt's death. The early work even after Walt's death was mostly drainage canals and preparing the land. We're talking about the basic concepts of how the property would be used and laid out here so blueprints aren't necessary to show that. If you would like to produce some blueprints to prove what you're saying feel free to. Also here's a link to back up the dates I provided.

https://disneyparks.disney.go.com/blog/2012/05/today-in-disney-history-disney-broke-ground-on-walt-disney-world-resort-45-years-ago/
 

yaksplat

Well-Known Member
Well we can start by looking at the original plans as they existed in Walt's time.
View attachment 334571
Here's the original entrance complex located just on the north side of 192. This is the southernmost point of the monorail other than the airport just south of it. The monorail then extends north through the industrial complex then through EPCOT (the city part) then up to the theme park. Now the question is knowing that the theme park will be the primary tourism draw why would you design your parking and put it almost ten miles away from the tourists destination? The concept of a weenie is heavily intertwined in everything Disney did and it's obvious Walt understood this. This would've been the biggest weenie ever. Walt made it clear that the most important part of this project was EPCOT so it's extremely obvious that the intent of this design was to give people what they came for but in the process show off EPCOT.

It'a also worth noting the monorails approach to the theme park wasn't all that spectacular. As you can see below the monorail approaches the park from the east. Looking out the sides of the monorail you likely wouldn't even see the park until you were there. There also was no lagoon to create those great views of the castle rising over the park across the water. It's pretty clear there was no real "grand reveal" designed into this.View attachment 334572
Do you have a link to this map in its entirety?
 

s8film40

Well-Known Member
Do you have a link to this map in its entirety?
Honestly these were just the first ones I found when I did a Google search. There are several versions of this, this was one of the later ones. Initially there was plans for a people mover system to the MK resorts, by the time this drawing was made they had changed it to a monorail loop.

Here are some great resources though:

https://sites.google.com/site/theoriginalepcot/

 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
When TEA publishes those numbers, you can bet a theme park would squawk loudly if the numbers were way too low. They'd would also tend to correct others using those numbers... and they don't. Just in this forum, I'm sure there are those that know the real numbers and I haven't seen them say TEAs numbers are significantly off. And TEA tunes their system of estimating numbers for those parks that don't release their numbers against those that do. And TEA publishes its numbers as part of a professional colloquium of theme park professionals. If TEAs numbers were off, you can be sure there'd be dozens of members of their own organization criticizing it, but they don't (AFAIK).

But let's say TEAs numbers are off by a whopping 10%. It would still mean MK is getting 80% more guests than it was designed for instead of 100% more.
Parks have have protested the estimates, the largest being SeaWorld. A park though isn’t going to make noise about estimates that are higher.

Also, the numbers are AECOM’s and not the TEA’s. AECOM does the work and the economics group employed has a strong business interest in some degree of accuracy.

Also he died during the early part of construction. That fact alone says final construction drawings would have been issued. You don't start cutting into the earth for a major project with artist renditions. So Walt would still have been alive and at least have knowledge of the final master plan.
You are grossly exaggerating the level of detail required for early site work. Walt was dead and the early construction does not need the specifics you claim. Just go look at Universal’s new park site.
 

imsosarah

Member
I've noticed that there is a path that goes from the Transportation and Ticket Center to the Polynesian. Then, it continues to the Grand Floridian and then it just stops. Similarly, there's a path between the Monorail Station at the Magic Kingdom and the Seven Seas Lagoon that starts heading towards the Grand Floridian that also just abruptly stops! With how hectic it has gotten at park closing at Magic Kingdom, why can't Disney invest a small amount of money into completing a pathway? This way, they can have a somewhat reasonably solution for guests who don't want to wait over an hour for the Monorail. I know a lot of people instinctively want to tell me how far the walk is but I honestly would have no problem walking the mile as I could do that in about 10 minutes and I'm willing to bet there are plenty of families who would opt for a long walk over a long wait just to get back to their car. Is this because they're afraid of a stampede of guests through Deluxe resorts?
We have walked to GF before from Poly and it is actually a lot longer than you would think - it is not a quick 10 minute walk at all...
 

justintheharris

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
We have walked to GF before from Poly and it is actually a lot longer than you would think - it is not a quick 10 minute walk at all...
If you read further down, I'm a runner and walk very fast. Maybe not 10 minutes but I wouldn't need longer than 20 minutes. But again, that's me. Not the average person.
 

Damon7777

Well-Known Member
I've said it before and I'll say it again Disney does not and will not disclose exactly how many are in the parks. They are very tight lipped about this information. Numbers that get posted to the public and the actual count are not the same.
And I'll say this with certainty:
For this discussion It does not matter if Disney releases or does not release the attendance numbers. It would not even matter if it intentionally released misleading or wrong data as we will get a fairly accurate picture anyway.

Any "off the street" /independent(non Disney personnel) who has some training in data collection and statistical evaluations can safely conclude workable/ reliable aggregate numbers since population sampling is readily available.

We do not need the mouse to tell us how much cheese is in the vault........outsiders have reliable ways of looking inside.
 
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