Why Hollywood Studios is being rebuilt

[Pixiedustmaker]

I'd rather they build a fake studio, use the tram to ride the tourists along the set of Gone With The Wind and Titanic, and have AA's show Walt and Roy and Iwerks create classic animation. This for me would put the 'theme' into theme park. DHS has a perfect theme of 'Hollywood that never was an always will be'. Just create a fake backstage studio area, the way you create a fake Hollywood front area.

I get what you're saying. I remember riding the Backlot for the first time many, many years ago, as well as the animation tour when there were actual animators working on stuff. It was cool seeing Disney try something different from just copying Disneyland.

Despite DCA having Carsland, it doesn't have a Great Movie ride, though some effects haven't cared for on GMR. It's kinda cool seeing the Casablanca scene with the plane that might have been used in the film (though not in that scene).

I could see Catastrophe Canyon being remade into something else entirely, but still using the water pumps. What if they built a building around it and had a mock up of the titanic? That would be pretty cool.

Though they haven't done an animation ride, which begins black and white and progresses through to color (which would make sense in a "Hollywood"/studio theme park), I believe Eddie Sotto remarked that WDI has come up with ideas for such a ride. I'd love to see something like that in DHS.

 

[Mike730]

The "studio" theme at DHS is can't come back because there is no studio. To me, it would just look cheesy.

The "hollywood" theme is the one that maintained consistency (or at least has potential to) and would be welcomed.

At this point the best thing for DHS is to be somewhere to put any IP that fits the land. (Pixar place, Animation, Hollywood...)

Because it's not always easy to shoehorn attractions into the specific lands of MK, broader lands at DHS would allow it.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Pixiedustmaker, I think one of many posters issues with your posts is that you ignore reality to push your fanboi dreams. You keep mentioning a 5th gate and tie capacity at DHS and DAK into you reasoning that a 5th gate is not only inevitable, but just around the corner. Yes, both DAK and DHS have HORRIBLE capacity issues, but it is not too many guests (i.e.:capacity) that is the issue as much as the fact that both parks are PAINFULLY (I can't capitalize that enough) short on rides. WDW will be ready for a 5th gate when all 4 parks have at least 25 rides. and since DHS has 5 and DAK has 6, we are at least 25 years away from breaking ground on a 5th gate.

From a sustainability point of view, I think that WDW needs to add guest capacity to the parks. I think of guest capacity as sort of having everything that a land at MK has: attractions, restaurants, and guest areas i.e. walkways/landscaping. If you look at WDW as a city that gets about 48 million tourists a year, if that number continues to grow, as it has, then yes, I would say that WDW needs more guest capacity.

If you don't add more guest capacity, then you have longer lines for attractions and restaurants, crowded parks, and a poorer guest experience. If demand remains high, then you could make money off of selling ways to circumvent these problems to wealthy patrons . . . we've already seen this happen.

In terms of fixing this issues, WDW needs to add more attractions/restaurants . . . which means either new lands or a fifth park. Yes, taking out LMA/Backlot and putting in some with higher guest capacity helps, but you have to subtract what you've lost too.

NFL made a lot of sense because it increased guest capacity, AND it really improved the guest experience as Dumbo has shade in the queue, there are quality attractions for parents with little kids, there is great theming/landscaping, and that land hadn't been used for much for many years.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

At this point the best thing for DHS is to be somewhere to put any IP that fits the land. (Pixar place, Animation, Hollywood...)

Because it's not always easy to shoehorn attractions into the specific lands of MK, broader lands at DHS would allow it.

Yes, but.

'But', because it means settling for the lesser of two evils. The choice is not between the two evils of 'ruining the MK and EPCOT by shoehorning in thematically clashing rides such as the carpets, Buzz, Nemo', or 'broader lands at DHS to absorb this stuff'. No, there is a third option, the classic WDW one: 'rides designed to further the theme, attractions decided upon not by marketing but by Imagineering, attractions that strenghten the theme of the land in lands that in turn strenghten the attraction'. Such as the Riverboat, Treehouse, PeopleMover, Safari, ToT.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

From a sustainability point of view, I think that WDW needs to add guest capacity to the parks. I think of guest capacity as sort of having everything that a land at MK has: attractions, restaurants, and guest areas i.e. walkways/landscaping. If you look at WDW as a city that gets about 48 million tourists a year, if that number continues to grow, as it has, then yes, I would say that WDW needs more guest capacity.

If you don't add more guest capacity, then you have longer lines for attractions and restaurants, crowded parks, and a poorer guest experience. If demand remains high, then you could make money off of selling ways to circumvent these problems to wealthy patrons . . . we've already seen this happen.

In terms of fixing this issues, WDW needs to add more attractions/restaurants . . . which means either new lands or a fifth park. Yes, taking out LMA/Backlot and putting in some with higher guest capacity helps, but you have to subtract what you've lost too.

NFL made a lot of sense because it increased guest capacity, AND it really improved the guest experience as Dumbo has shade in the queue, there are quality attractions for parents with little kids, there is great theming/landscaping, and that land hadn't been used for much for many years.

Well concerning guest capacity, wouldn't it make more sense to expand the offerings at their current parks before developing the infrastructure for a 5th gate? Disneyland has 69 rides. DHS has 5. DAK 6. Those 2 parks need at least 20 more attractions each before WDW considers another park. And at the rate TDO builds I don't see them needing a 5th gate until; sometime around 2225.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

. . . it's wrong to blame Disney for the Muppets' troubles. There is a limited audience for them, and a heck of a lot of competition. Disney can't be blamed for "not trying hard enough" or whatever. It made the new movie. It's giving the puppets a second movie, even though they're not generating much money.

The 2011 Muppet movie had a 2011 worldwide gross of around $158 million, plus I bet they sold a decent number of CD's after a song in the film won an Academy Award for a song (Man or Muppet), and there is a lot of Muppet merchandise sold online at Amazon from the Disney Store. I'm thinking that with Disney taking about 50% of the worldwide gross (maybe $75 million), on a production budget of $45 million, and viral advertising/Muppets on ESPN . . . they made back their production budget/advertising at the box office. DVD and merchandise sales were probably gravy, and they reinvigorated the franchise.

I'm sure Disney would take a Muppets movie over a Lone Ranger or John Carter anyday.

I don't how much Disney makes on Muppets, but I think that PBS/Sesame street makes something like $200 million a year off of Elmo merchandise alone.

 

[Mike730]

Yes, but.

'But', because it means settling for the lesser of two evils. The choice is not between the two evils of 'ruining the MK and EPCOT by shoehorning in thematically clashing rides such as the carpets, Buzz, Nemo', or 'broader lands at DHS to absorb this stuff'. No, there is a third option, the classic WDW one: 'rides designed to further the theme, attractions decided upon not by marketing but by Imagineering, attractions that strenghten the theme of the land in lands that in turn strenghten the attraction'. Such as the Riverboat, Treehouse, PeopleMover, Safari, ToT.

ORIGINAL ATTRACTIONS!?!?!?!
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!11!!1!!
.....
..
....

Seriously, you're right. I've settled for that because I have zero confidence in TDO's ability to create such an experience.

EDIT: Actually, I have zero confidence in their ability to see the value in funding such a project. Talent in WDI still exists, but the money ain't flowin.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Well concerning guest capacity, wouldn't it make more sense to expand the offerings at their current parks before developing the infrastructure for a 5th gate? Disneyland has 69 rides. DHS has 5. DAK 6. Those 2 parks need at least 20 more attractions each before WDW considers another park. And at the rate TDO builds I don't see them needing a 5th gate until; sometime around 2225.

You may well be right, and this is what Disney is currently doing at WDW, MK got added guest capacity with NFL, and Avatarland will probably be built on unused space, increasing guest capacity, as well as drawing in more guests, (which in a way hurts guest capacity).

I'd like to see the Wonders of Life Pavilion torn down and a new attraction put in there. But I also realize that this building is used for other things, so might not make sense to take it out from a pure financial standpoint. Perhaps if they added an attraction they could reuse the building for the queue.

As I see it, a big issue with just expanding the parks is that there are only so many people you can cram through the turnstiles at a given park. And some parks, yes DHS, have official expansion plans which under some scenarios would be expensive. I think MK got an expansion because it garners a lot of foot traffic, and the expansion was needed very much needed from the capacity angle. Disneyland has 60+ attractions, MK doesn't come close to that number.

AK's expansion makes sense as the park has tons of empty fields slotted for expansion, not so with DHS, or even Epcot/MK.

Honestly, I don' think that DHS will get "25" attractions before a fifth gate. A 1% a year increase starting with 48 million, would in ten years, be about another 5 million guests . . . that would be more than a Carsland could soak up, and if Disney wanted to have a new draw, adding a fifth gate would garner more media attention than another land, plus if put in a suitable location, it would be easier to expand than most of the other 4 parks besides AK. When you look at adding a Carsland plus a StarWarsland . . . that's almost the size of half a park right there.

 

[maxairmike]

I'd just like to point out that DHS (RIP D-MGM Studios) was able to hold MK level numbers back when it had a 2+ hour attraction, and its overall attraction count was the same or lower. Now the park struggles with half that number (and is almost unbearable at anything over 30k) with more attractions and guest-accessible areas. What changed (yes, that's rhetorical)? Answering that question properly - i.e without boundary/guest area expansion or a 5th gate - and you're on the right track to understanding what's wrong with the park and what should happen.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

You may well be right, and this is what Disney is currently doing at WDW, MK got added guest capacity with NFL, and Avatarland will probably be built on unused space, increasing guest capacity, as well as drawing in more guests, (which in a way hurts guest capacity).

I'd like to see the Wonders of Life Pavilion torn down and a new attraction put in there. But I also realize that this building is used for other things, so might not make sense to take it out from a pure financial standpoint. Perhaps if they added an attraction they could reuse the building for the queue.

As I see it, a big issue with just expanding the parks is that there are only so many people you can cram through the turnstiles at a given park. And some parks, yes DHS, have official expansion plans which under some scenarios would be expensive. I think MK got an expansion because it garners a lot of foot traffic, and the expansion was needed very much needed from the capacity angle. Disneyland has 60+ attractions, MK doesn't come close to that number.

AK's expansion makes sense as the park has tons of empty fields slotted for expansion, not so with DHS, or even Epcot/MK.

Honestly, I don' think that DHS will get "25" attractions before a fifth gate. A 1% a year increase starting with 48 million, would in ten years, be about another 5 million guests . . . that would be more than a Carsland could soak up, and if Disney wanted to have a new draw, adding a fifth gate would garner more media attention than another land, plus if put in a suitable location, it would be easier to expand than most of the other 4 parks besides AK. When you look at adding a Carsland plus a StarWarsland . . . that's almost the size of half a park right there.

Yes, half of a park that has 5 rides. DHS has 5 rides, DAK has 6. DL has 69 rides and 88 attractions. It would take WDW 13 more parks to equal the capacity of one Disneyland.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

And at the rate TDO builds I don't see them needing a 5th gate until; sometime around 2225.

In a way, it is surprising that a fifth gate hasn't be built yet (equally surprising that MK hasn't added more attractions). What if WDW grew by 2% per year for the next decade? That would be an extra 10 million guests, it would be hard to see both DHS and AK soaking up an extra 5 million guests a year . . .

I think that ideally, Disney would want to run parks at 95% of capacity at peak times. Guests would never be turned away, and future guests wouldn't complain about how crowded WDW is, they'd always be positioned to add that 1-2% growth per year. NFL/Avatarland might have happened sooner had 9/11 & the economic downturn not happened.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

In a way, it is surprising that a fifth gate hasn't be built yet (equally surprising that MK hasn't added more attractions). What if WDW grew by 2% per year for the next decade? That would be an extra 10 million guests, it would be hard to see both DHS and AK soaking up an extra 5 million guests a year . . .

I think that ideally, Disney would want to run parks at 95% of capacity at peak times. Guests would never be turned away, and future guests wouldn't complain about how crowded WDW is, they'd always be positioned to add that 1-2% growth per year. NFL/Avatarland might have happened sooner had 9/11 & the economic downturn not happened.

Botomline, you are still looking at 2 parks with 5 and 6 rides. They need to bring these 2 parks up to speed long before they ever consider a 5th gate.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Yes, half of a park that has 5 rides. DHS has 5 rides, DAK has 6. DL has 69 rides and 88 attractions. It would take WDW 13 more parks to equal the capacity of one Disneyland.

Not exactly, though it is fair that you have grips about it. Ride capacity is but a piece of guest capacity. Guest capacity also includes lines.

A lot of the rides at Disneyland have very reasonable wait times when compared to probably every park in WDW. So, yes, at Disneyland you get to ride more rides, and spend less time in line per ride, and less time in lines overall.

But, of course, AK/DHS gets more attendance when combined when compared to Disneyland, by millions. Guests spend more time in lines for attractions, probably more time resting while they eat, and in the case of AK, they spend a good chunk of time just hiking around that park looking at animals. So, from a guest capacity issues, AK/DHS combined probably have higher total capacity, as far as the fire marshall is concerned. It is just that the lines are sort of where guests spend their time at DHS, versus guest spending a lot more time in air conditioned showbuildings at Disneyland.

The difference is guest experience, not guest capacity.

You can see why WDW got a ton of interactive queues before Disneyland, you going to be spending a lot of time in those lines.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

Botomline, you are still looking at 2 parks with 5 and 6 rides. They need to bring these 2 parks up to speed long before they ever consider a 5th gate.

As a thought experiment, what if I open a theme park that has two rides, and you wait four hours for each ride, and hence it is a full day park as you spend eight hours in lines, and the attractions themselves are a total of 30 minutes in length. You also spend an hour eating food.

You, as a patron, probably rather break-up your line waiting time into 30-45 minute chunks, even if you go on rides that are just 3.5 minutes long, yes? That is a lot of Disneyland, though many attractions have long ride times.

AK's Safari used to have something like a 2 hour wait time, maybe more. That is WDW. But, of course, AK and DHS also have shows.

WDW probably makes money off of having long queues for attractions as then they need fewer attractions, though at some point guests get fed up with the lines.

While you are positive that WDW needs to "bring up to speed" DHS,. . . it has been running this way for a pretty long time. Even adding a Carsland wouldn't change this much.

The rub is that guests to WDW are prepared to wait in lines for huge amounts of time, and Disney facilitates this concession by building attractive queues with games.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Not exactly, though it is fair that you have grips about it. Ride capacity is but a piece of guest capacity. Guest capacity also includes lines.

A lot of the rides at Disneyland have very reasonable wait times when compared to probably every park in WDW. So, yes, at Disneyland you get to ride more rides, and spend less time in line per ride, and less time in lines overall.

But, of course, AK/DHS gets more attendance when combined when compared to Disneyland, by millions. Guests spend more time in lines for attractions, probably more time resting while they eat, and in the case of AK, they spend a good chunk of time just hiking around that park looking at animals. So, from a guest capacity issues, AK/DHS combined probably have higher total capacity, as far as the fire marshall is concerned. It is just that the lines are sort of where guests spend their time at DHS, versus guest spending a lot more time in air conditioned showbuildings at Disneyland.

The difference is guest experience, not guest capacity.

You can see why WDW got a ton of interactive queues before Disneyland, you going to be spending a lot of time in those lines.

You know the interactive queues are because FP+ is going to make the stand by lines MISERABLE. So they are adding the interactive queues to stop people from storming Guest Relations with torches and pitchforks.

I am not quite following. DL has 88 attractions. DHS has 5 rides. Oh, and Disneyland costs less than DHS. WDW faithful are idiots.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

You know the interactive queues are because FP+ is going to make the stand by lines MISERABLE. So they are adding the interactive queues to stop people from storming Guest Relations with torches and pitchforks.

I am not quite following. DL has 88 attractions. DHS has 5 rides. Oh, and Disneyland costs less than DHS. WDW faithful are idiots.

Quite true that FP+ will make the stand-by lines worse, and in part (or in full) is why there will be interactive queues (Disney also said it was because they asked guests in surveys what the number one dislike of a visit was, and it was waiting in lines.)

However . . . FP+ only exists because it is undesirable to wait in lines that are, on average, perhaps way too long. I kinda think that FP+ is making money off of a bad situation, (and making it worse for some guest in stand-by).

With regards to DHS, if you have a theme park with "only" six rides, but they knock off the sock off of guests, i.e. you get your own Star War X-Wing and go off on a 20 min ride, then this is "OK", as guests wait 2-3 hours, but have a great time. In the past, DHS was "OK", as it had a few rides, but they were pretty good, or at least new and interesting. Currently, fans don't like how DHS's meager offerings have declined in quality. The hard issue for fans is that despite the decline in quality in some attractions, additions of things like Star Tours 2.0 and shows have maintained, or even increased, DHS's attractiveness among the general theme park audience as measured by attendance. Maybe guests aren't staying as long as they once did, maybe they are when compared to opening day at DHS . . . but increased attendance is never considered bad.

Eventually, there will be a breaking point, and DHS's will drop attendance due to intrinsic factors, lack of rides, etc . . . one poster complained, legitimately, that DHS doesn't have much for small children.

But, it does't seem that DHS is there yet. Maybe in 7 years, and, as per Disney's m.o., they'd add a new attraction, (if none of this overhaul stuff happens.)

 

[GoofGoof]

You know the interactive queues are because FP+ is going to make the stand by lines MISERABLE. So they are adding the interactive queues to stop people from storming Guest Relations with torches and pitchforks.

I am not quite following. DL has 88 attractions. DHS has 5 rides. Oh, and Disneyland costs less than DHS. WDW faithful are idiots.

For me I am only paying $13.50 to go to DHS. At that price it's not a bad deal. Here's the math. If I'm at WDW I'm doing 2 days at MK and 1 at EPCOT minimum. 3 day ticket = $262. A 5 day ticket costs $289. For the extra $27 I get a day at DHS and a day at AK so $13.50 each. I would have a hard time paying $90 to go to DHS for 1 day, but I have never had to.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

For me I am only paying $13.50 to go to DHS. At that price it's not a bad deal. Here's the math. If I'm at WDW I'm doing 2 days at MK and 1 at EPCOT minimum. 3 day ticket = $262. A 5 day ticket costs $289. For the extra $27 I get a day at DHS and a day at AK so $13.50 each. I would have a hard time paying $90 to go to DHS for 1 day, but I have never had to.

Well, I live 12 miles away, and I no longer have an AP. So, it's $90/day for DHS. With taxes that is over $300 for me and my 2 kids. And did I mention DHS has 5 rides.

 

[Turtle]

What Disney SHOULD do is bring the budget of a 5th gate to fix the current parks.

MK needs another ride in Adventureland
EPCOT needs an Imagination, Seas, and Energy overhaul and a new WS attraction
DHS needs 3-4 family rides
AK needs about five more rides


After that with good upkeep for a while, THEN they have my permission for a 5th gate.

 

[RSoxNo1]

He said he expected one.
It was a logical assumption. Big event, big news, big flop two years ago to make up for....made sense. Still does.
However, nobody said unequivocally that they knew an announcement would be made.

Yeah, this is a problem that us as fans fall into. We mistake assumptions as facts. Disney made no such declaration, and insiders made no such declaration that announcements would be made. It was just a logical assumption.