Why Hollywood Studios is being rebuilt

[Animaniac93-98]

Maybe Marriott will get their hands on some Disney properties at a discount in 2016. They were always Michael Eisner's preferred choice when spinning off hotels in Orlando came up in discussion.

How would that have worked with the branding? Would it be like "Port Orleans by Marriott"?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I also don't see WDW's resort business model surviving the Universal assault, especially with Universal committed to building an additional 10,000 hotel rooms on top of existing properties.

Maybe Marriott will get their hands on some Disney properties at a discount in 2016. They were always Michael Eisner's preferred choice when spinning off hotels in Orlando came up in discussion.

I dunno, but tearing down the All Stars and killing off parts of DVC seems like a good idea long term hotel capacity wise.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

How would that have worked with the branding? Would it be like "Port Orleans by Marriott"?

http://www.swandolphin.com/

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Legoland is going to overtake Walt Disney World as the number one vacation destination on planet earth.

One brick at a time, so it may take awhile.

 

[willtravel]

WDW is staring at over $3 billion worth of infrastructure work in Orlando just to keep the property sustainable for the next 25 years. Things like replacing light poles, re-routing highways, fixing the broken canal system that has completely FUBAR'd the resorts water table. It's a mess.

This is a key reason why Iger and Co continue to explore a departure from the theme park business. They came very close to offloading the whole portfolio two years ago. Maybe they'll find a nice Chinese REIT to offload this clumsy real estate on to before the next big market correction.

So you are saying WDW CO would sell theme parks (all) including timeshares and just own ships, ESPN brand, and ABC (not sure if I missed anything there.?

 

[willtravel]

Wal-Mart is the biggest retailer on planet Earth. No one who even has a shred of dignity to their person, even with the means, would attempt to try and unseat Wal-Mart.

Universal simply needs to be better, and the growth story will write itself. Disney has much higher capacity than Universal so if Disney wants to be Wal-Mart, by all means, that market is theirs to have and to hold. I can tell you with 100% confidence that Universal does not want Disney's guest volume on their hands.

No one does. WDW is unsustainable at its current size.

Maybe they should stop building time shares and ships (which they have to maintain). Sometimes owning too much is not good. Too much resources having to go too many ways. Less is more.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

http://www.swandolphin.com/

Don't know why my brain forgot about that one. Having said that, I think certain hotel brands would not fit with the moderate and certainly not the value level options. Disney would be wise to keep their name on Pop and such because no chain at a Marriott level would touch it and letting the lower teir names take it would hurt Disney's reputation.

On a different note, I will never understand why SSR was built so big. I can't imagine that ever hitting 100% occupancy, even during the busiest of times.

 

[pheneix]

So you are saying WDW CO would sell theme parks (all) including timeshares and just own ships, ESPN brand, and ABC (not sure if I missed anything there.?

They have explored the possibilities, yes. And often. Two years ago was the closest I think WDC ever came to parting ways with the parks but ultimately market forces made the existing climate that Disney wanted to sell in irrelevant.

But for Disney to take all this real estate and spin it off into a real estate trust with a 100 year lease.... It's not a bad way for Iger to haul in a HUGE load of cash as he heads into retirement in 2016. I would be mildly surprised if the parks are ever sold under his tenure, but I would not be shocked.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Don't know why my brain forgot about that one. Having said that, I think certain hotel brands would not fit with the moderate and certainly not the value level options. Disney would be wise to keep their name on Pop and such because no chain at a Marriott level would touch it and letting the lower teir names take it would hurt Disney's reputation.

Disney should never have built the values.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Disney should never have built the values.

But they're so popular because they are "cheap" and offer a Disney branded experience which keeps them packed. I don't blame them for having them.

 

[willtravel]

They have explored the possibilities, yes. And often. Two years ago was the closest I think WDC ever came to parting ways with the parks but ultimately market forces made the existing climate that Disney wanted to sell in irrelevant.

But for Disney to take all this real estate and spin it off into a real estate trust with a 100 year lease.... It's not a bad way for Iger to haul in a HUGE load of cash as he heads into retirement in 2016. I would be mildly surprised if the parks are ever sold under his tenure, but I would not be shocked.

And I would assume the shareholders would be fine as long as profit is there... For me, very sad thought.

 

[GLaDOS]

Disney should never have built the values.

I have no problem with the value concept. I have a problem with the value execution. They're nothing but cartoon vomit over crappy motel rooms.

Just look at what Universal Orlando is doing with the value concept at Cabana Bay and compare it to the Disney values. It puts them to shame.

Heck, the head of the Cabana Bay project said he hesitated to call the property a value one because the word reeked of "cheap". You have the All-Stars and Pop Century to thank for that.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I have no problem with the value concept. I have a problem with the value execution. They're nothing but cartoon vomit over crappy motel rooms.

Just look at what Universal Orlando is doing with the value concept at Cabana Bay and compare it to the Disney values. It puts them to shame.

Heck, the head of the Cabana Bay project said he hesitated to call the property a value one because the word reeked of "cheap". You have the All-Stars and Pop Century to thank for that.

I agree execution is the problem, but Cabana Bay is, in Disney terms, more like Caribbean Beach or Port Orleans than /ASM/ASM or Pop/AoA.

 

[Figments Friend]

But DHS is the park most impacted by the competition. Heads have turned. Everyone that comes to Orlando now visits IOA. Their vacation isn't any longer, so what is getting sacrificed? A day at the Magic Kingdom... No way. The shell of a park formerly called MGM Studios... Probably.

Totally agree.
DHS is toast as it stands now. This is why the expansion will help, but will it be too late by the time it gets here...?

I would say a fair amount of visitors who come to O-town spend a day or two at the MK, then mosey on over to Uni for a day of two, then hit Sea World for a day. This seems to be a common trend as obviously folks want to check out the attractions just up the road.

The days of people taking multi-day vacations...or even multi-week vacations JUST On Property at WDW are over.
MM+, FP+, and all the Free Dining one could offer will not keep people chained behind the purple and green gates....they are gonna wander...as they should.

Shoot...how many Imagineers have been over at Uni having a great time..? I have lost count..!

 

[Figments Friend]

Well, I wouldn't say "everyone" goes to IOA -- there's still a devoted customer base for Disney, especially with DME and internal transport making it easy to just stay on the resort. Plus, a lot of people are among the toddler set and there's a perception that Universal doesn't have as much to offer young kids.

That said, I agree with the point that DHS is the lower lying fruit and the one most likely to lose days to Universal. It's similar in style and theme to the Universal parks and, while it has some great attractions, arguable has the least to do. Especially for repeat guests who have already seen the shows. DHS is very vulnerable. If something isn't added to the park quickly, we could certainly see attendance drop relatively quickly there.

Yep....which is why DHS really needs this proposed refresh.
Let us hope that the current versions of the plan being looked over happen, and happen BIG.

 

[GLaDOS]

I agree execution is the problem, but Cabana Bay is, in Disney terms, more like Caribbean Beach or Port Orleans than /ASM/ASM or Pop/AoA.

Right, but the non-suite rooms are priced like Disney value.

 

[Rodan75]

I'd say announcements happen in the next 6 months, it just seems like there won't be a single event where 6 attractions are announced. It's a shame, that's fun, and really gets the fans excited.

But it also delays trips...why go now when we can go on a cruise this year and take the kids to Disney when the new stuff is done.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Right, but the non-suite rooms are priced like Disney value.

which were the old moderate prices.

 

[RSoxNo1]

But it also delays trips...why go now when we can go on a cruise this year and take the kids to Disney when the new stuff is done.

I would say it serves the opposite approach. If the average guest doesn't know that a DHS makeover is coming in 2016, they'll go in 2014 or 2015.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Jumping to other parks has been going on since the 80's if not sooner. I always spent a few days at Disney, then Universal or SeaWorld or Cypress Gardens (currently known as Legoland). I was never a Disney only vacationer. For some reason I thought everyone did it that way. Thinking back though, maybe there was enough to concern Disney at least a little. Hence the package setups, discounted if you bought room, tickets and possible meal plans. Then the most brilliant of them all...free transportation from the airport to your room and just like that you are committed to Disney. You aren't likely to go through the hassle of getting additional transportation to those other (unmentionable) options.

Originally, I think that all that hotel building on property was strictly to keep people at the resort, but, it turned out to be so profitable (once they convinced everyone that it isn't a true experience unless you stay onsite) that they just went crazy. With the rates they charge how could they not be profitable. You certainly don't get anything extra for the 3 to 4 times higher hotel rates then are offered off property. I'm talking across the board...be it value, moderate or deluxe. What started out as a way to support the Parks turned around that the parks became something that supported the hotels...gave people a reason to stay there. Just like they did in Anaheim, the clutter of hotels and restaurants that circled around Disneyland happened again, but this time it was Disney doing it to themselves. I guess it's OK as long as Disney is creating the clutter and not some outsider.

What Universal has done that is different then before is that they are the ones that have raised the bar instead of Disney. They have gotten the attention of a large group of people that never used to consider going anyplace other then WDW. As long as Uni continues to amaze, they will always be dividing their time from now on. Disney won't alter that fact. The more time that passes without Disney winning new people over to complete loyalty the harder it gets. Walt died 47 years ago. Memories of his presence in the personal lives of people is about two generations ago. His coattails are shredding badly and it's getting harder and harder to find a way to grab hold. Disney is still top dog and will be for quite a while more, but another canine has come to town and grabbed a very large leg bone and ran away with it. Up until now it was just a puppy, but it has grown up and knows how to growl.