Why Hollywood Studios is being rebuilt

[doctornick]

No, it is not. Disney closes access when it reaches capacity. Is attendance dropping because the number of park closure days goes up? I've not seen any numbers to indicate that result. So, what is the problem?

The problem ends up being dissatisfied guests if they have long waits for relatively few attractions or don't feel they get enough value for their money. That can potentially hurt attendance/revenues down the road.

 

[Daveeeeed]

Something that has struck me in reading all of the complaints/suggestions about Epcot and HS, is how much the parks get compared to Universal. Why is that? It sounds like the comparison is primarily to the number and quality of thrill rides. Note that I used the term "rides", and not "attractions".

Now, don't get me wrong. I am a coaster enthusiast to the extreme. I love fast coasters, classic wooden coasters, lots of dips and spins... I enjoy spending a day riding thrill rides until I am totally exhausted.

But, does Disney need to make any of it's four major parks into a thrill ride destination? I don't think so. WDW is a destination composed of multiple Theme Parks. Theme Parks are not the same as Amusement Parks. WDW can differentiate itself as a destination with multiple parks - each with it's own thematic specialty. MK is the ultimate in Theme Parks. AK is it's own unique experience, with a blend of real animals, prehistoric animals, futuristic/SciFi animals, etc. EPCOT is... well, it should have been... well, I think anyone who knows Walt's vision knows that it will never be what Walt envisioned. But, it can still be better. I think it needs to go back to its original design - two parts, one focusing on experiencing the world, the other a focus on learning.

The Studios can still have the same "Hollywood" theme. Remember when Disney-MGM was built? The race between Universal and Disney to have a "Studios" Park? Well... before that, the competition for Disney was Universal Studios Hollywood, which was a special draw in SoCal because it was different from Knott's and DL. It was a working studio with a tour and some attractions. Disney-MGM was a several steps above that, with some added rides, but still a "working" studio with shows, history and other studio-related attractions. I think that model can still exist. Disney can take advantage of the IPs and create more than just rides. It needs to be an immersive experience. Have some attractions like Universal used to have - Star Trek show and green screen, ET show and green screen, where audience members were selected to participate. Have some behind-the-scenes of how studios work: animation, stunts, special effects, costuming, etc. Give us something so different, that we want to go to the park because it is different. Don't turn HS into a Universal wannabe, competing to see who has the most thrilling rides. Make it stand out because it does NOT have so many rides.

I don't think any WDW gates need to be full of thrill rides. Make/Keep them thematically special. I think that is what the original approach used to be, and IMHO, that is why the attendance numbers keep growing, despite the crowds, competing amusement parks, lack of so-called E-Ticket rides, etc. The parks should be unique and very Disney - not just another place to go for thrill rides.

Just my $0.02... YMMV

I agree, and especially since Hws already has loads of thrill rides, but Hws does need at least another 2 e-tickets weather they're thrill rides or just simply a high capacity Ratatouille type of attraction just due do capacity issues alone, coupled with eh demand.

 

[Brad Bishop]

Yeah, I read that a LOT on this forum. Yet, no one has provided evidence that this happens...

I think that the problem lies in "unique experience".

For example: Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey is unique. Same with Gringotts. They have all of the standard lawyer posters of, "You'll die on this ride if you're not 100% healthy," but I think it's a safe bet that guests will be fine (family and all).

Universal tried something different. They made Harry Porterville complete with the run on the banks )).

Disney gave us:
- NFL: TLM: Omnimover + AAs - pretty much stick it out there and let it go. No thought.
- NFL: 7DMT: off the shelf family coaster + some AAs.

Both of these attractions are landscaped nice but are lacking. You don't get off 7DMT thinking, "Holy crap that was great!!," but, instead, most people get off thinking, "That was it?"

TLM leaves people thinking, "Ho-hum.. The Little Mermaid.."

That is contrast to the Harry Potter attractions at Universal which leaves a feeling of, "Holy crap that was awesome!!"

Disney counters with, "Frozen is cool. Let's retread Maelstrom as Frozen. Also: Meet and Greet." It's lacking. It's minimalist. It's all about shoveling crap our way and saying, "We're Disney! Enjoy!"

That's the problem. Disney used to be the innovators. Not they're the bean counters giving lack luster rides and retreads while they collect their bonuses and call themselves great. What they've given customers over the last few years has been mediocre. It's awesome by Six Flags standards. Six Flags isn't charging me premium prices, though, and telling me how awesome they are.

 

[Cesar R M]

I think that the problem lies in "unique experience".

For example: Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey is unique. Same with Gringotts. They have all of the standard lawyer posters of, "You'll die on this ride if you're not 100% healthy," but I think it's a safe bet that guests will be fine (family and all).

Universal tried something different. They made Harry Porterville complete with the run on the banks )).

Disney gave us:
- NFL: TLM: Omnimover + AAs - pretty much stick it out there and let it go. No thought.
- NFL: 7DMT: off the shelf family coaster + some AAs.

Both of these attractions are landscaped nice but are lacking. You don't get off 7DMT thinking, "Holy crap that was great!!," but, instead, most people get off thinking, "That was it?"

TLM leaves people thinking, "Ho-hum.. The Little Mermaid.."

That is contrast to the Harry Potter attractions at Universal which leaves a feeling of, "Holy crap that was awesome!!"

Disney counters with, "Frozen is cool. Let's retread Maelstrom as Frozen. Also: Meet and Greet." It's lacking. It's minimalist. It's all about shoveling crap our way and saying, "We're Disney! Enjoy!"

That's the problem. Disney used to be the innovators. Not they're the bean counters giving lack luster rides and retreads while they collect their bonuses and call themselves great. What they've given customers over the last few years has been mediocre. It's awesome by Six Flags standards. Six Flags isn't charging me premium prices, though, and telling me how awesome they are.

as someone who visited both HP and Disney offerings in the same week.. yeah.. I feel harry potter was incredible... but gods.. that forbidden journey gets you dizzy!

 

[Marlins1]

Agreed - cool ride system but they over used it IMO. I feel like you get jerked in a different direction every time you want to look at something. My family and I have been on FJ twice and have all written it off due to the subsequent headache and we love coasters. Funny thing is I like the queues for both E Ticket Potter rides better than the ride itself which is the exact same case as TLM.

 

[Rutt]

I think that the problem lies in "unique experience".

For example: Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey is unique. Same with Gringotts. They have all of the standard lawyer posters of, "You'll die on this ride if you're not 100% healthy," but I think it's a safe bet that guests will be fine (family and all).

Universal tried something different. They made Harry Porterville complete with the run on the banks )).

Disney gave us:
- NFL: TLM: Omnimover + AAs - pretty much stick it out there and let it go. No thought.
- NFL: 7DMT: off the shelf family coaster + some AAs.

Both of these attractions are landscaped nice but are lacking. You don't get off 7DMT thinking, "Holy crap that was great!!," but, instead, most people get off thinking, "That was it?"

TLM leaves people thinking, "Ho-hum.. The Little Mermaid.."

That is contrast to the Harry Potter attractions at Universal which leaves a feeling of, "Holy crap that was awesome!!"

Disney counters with, "Frozen is cool. Let's retread Maelstrom as Frozen. Also: Meet and Greet." It's lacking. It's minimalist. It's all about shoveling crap our way and saying, "We're Disney! Enjoy!"

That's the problem. Disney used to be the innovators. Not they're the bean counters giving lack luster rides and retreads while they collect their bonuses and call themselves great. What they've given customers over the last few years has been mediocre. It's awesome by Six Flags standards. Six Flags isn't charging me premium prices, though, and telling me how awesome they are.

Do you have anything to support the assertion that most people feel that way about the disney rides?

I have no doubt that a portion of the male demographic between 18-35 probably feels that way, but most people I talk to love both rides you feel are subpar.

 

[Marlins1]

Honestly - I enjoyed 7DMT more than either E ticket Potter ride. I admit it is much less ambitious but I think it is more fun. I guess it is the screen/simulator thing. Unfortunately the next E ticket at Disney will also be screen based. Rip Ride Rockit is another story - best Orlano addition in a long time IMO.

 

[Travel Junkie]

Do you have anything to support the assertion that most people feel that way about the disney rides?

I have no doubt that a portion of the male demographic between 18-35 probably feels that way, but most people I talk to love both rides you feel are subpar.

I don’t know how The Little Mermaid has polled in Florida, but in California Little Mermaid has been widely panned and ranks fairly low in guest satisfaction ratings. The DCA version has undergone multiple refurbs with sole intention of trying to improve the ride experience. Those changes have also made their way out to Florida now. A ride that has undergone multiple fixes in less than 5 years of existence does not sound like an attraction that the majority of its riders love. At DCA it remains a walk on most days.

In regards to the Mine Train it has received very mixed reviews with a large amount of criticism focusing on the short ride time.

Neither attraction has received the overwhelmingly positive reaction of recent Universal additions.

 

[Rutt]

I don’t know how The Little Mermaid has polled in Florida, but in California Little Mermaid has been widely panned and ranks fairly low in guest satisfaction ratings. The DCA version has undergone multiple refurbs with sole intention of trying to improve the ride experience. Those changes have also made their way out to Florida now. A ride that has undergone multiple fixes in less than 5 years of existence does not sound like an attraction that the majority of its riders love. At DCA it remains a walk on most days.

In regards to the Mine Train it has received very mixed reviews with a large amount of criticism focusing on the short ride time.

Neither attraction has received the overwhelmingly positive reaction of recent Universal additions.

Not that Im doubting you, but again, is there any actual numbers anywhere to support this?

And DL is a different fan base entirely. Entirely different expectations than WDW.

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Back to DHS, what are they going to do with Indiana Jones since Disney announced that there will be more movies in the future. Move the stunt show to another part of the park with other various rides?

 

[Mike S]

Not that Im doubting you, but again, is there any actual numbers anywhere to support this?

And DL is a different fan base entirely. Entirely different expectations than WDW.

If only more of the people who go to WDW had those same expectations things would be a lot better.

 

[Rutt]

Back to DHS, what are they going to do with Indiana Jones since Disney announced that there will be more movies in the future. Move the stunt show to another part of the park with other various rides?

I hope they keep it. I actually enjoy that there are so many shows at DHS. I do hope they get a couple kiddie rides in there soon. Thqt being said, short of a stunt show revamp, maybe a MnG i dont see them doing much else with Indy.

 

[Rutt]

If only more of the people who go to WDW had those same expectations things would be a lot better.

Depends on why youre going I guess.

 

[Marlins1]

Back to DHS, what are they going to do with Indiana Jones since Disney announced that there will be more movies in the future. Move the stunt show to another part of the park with other various rides?

I would hope so - HS has too many shows but I do not think Indiana Jones is the one to drop. We catch it every couple of years and always enjoy it. Much better show than LMA.

 

[G00fyDad]

Back to DHS, what are they going to do with Indiana Jones since Disney announced that there will be more movies in the future. Move the stunt show to another part of the park with other various rides?

I doubt it. They might keep an IJ presence in the park, but I doubt it will be the tired show that they have right now. Besides, I think that the new movies may flop. IJ is one of those iconic movies that you can't just go and remake and have a hit. Harrison Ford IS Indiana Jones and they nearly destroyed the franchise when they brought in his kid. I love Chris Pratt, but I don't see him as IJ and I doubt the movie will have the success the original 3 had. I could see Disney removing the IJ stunt show and not adding anything else IJ to the park.

 

[1023]

I doubt it. They might keep an IJ presence in the park, but I doubt it will be the tired show that they have right now. Besides, I think that the new movies may flop. IJ is one of those iconic movies that you can't just go and remake and have a hit. Harrison Ford IS Indiana Jones and they nearly destroyed the franchise when they brought in his kid. I love Chris Pratt, but I don't see him as IJ and I doubt the movie will have the success the original 3 had. I could see Disney removing the IJ stunt show and not adding anything else IJ to the park.

Also, this area (IJSS) will become part of the slow to be announced Star Wars "land". At least that is the expectation. Several things that you are familiar with seeing from the theater back towards Star Tours will look very different 5 years from now.

*1023*

 

[Rutt]

Honestly - I enjoyed 7DMT more than either E ticket Potter ride. I admit it is much less ambitious but I think it is more fun. I guess it is the screen/simulator thing. Unfortunately the next E ticket at Disney will also be screen based. Rip Ride Rockit is another story - best Orlano addition in a long time IMO.

I agree with this. While the theming in wwohp is incredible, the rides dont really wow me.

 

[1023]

Too many shows? Seriously? It's a Studio theme park. And, how many is not too many? Let's see... shows... Indi, LMA, Beauty & Beast, Disney Jr and a special engagement of Frozen. So, five shows is too many?

Ummm you forgot some....

Voyage of the little Mermaid.
Jedi Training Academy.
Fantasmic! (uhhhh, this one is kinda big..)


*1023*

 

[AEfx]

Something that has struck me in reading all of the complaints/suggestions about Epcot and HS, is how much the parks get compared to Universal. Why is that? It sounds like the comparison is primarily to the number and quality of thrill rides. Note that I used the term "rides", and not "attractions".

I know it comes across that way, but I don't think you'll find many people that mean "thrill rides". For example, folks like myself would be happy if we just got more rides like PotC, HM, etc. - or nothing more "thrilling" than, say, Dinosaur.

As far as Universal, I don't really consider Spidey a thrill ride - nor Transformers, really. They simulate motion, but they have a wide audience once you hit the height requirement (which is decently low on those rides). Like, my mom has severe back problems plus hates coasters, but she has a blast on Spiderman or even Dinosaur. It all really depends on your level of "thrill".

In a real sense, at least compared to other parks in general (including Six Flags, etc.) Disney doesn't have any *real* thrill rides, really, other than Everest maybe just because of overall stats/drops. It's variable - to some Soarin' is a thrill ride, but 80 year olds love it, too. I'm sure I'm forgetting something else. But on the "Disney thrill scale" - I don't think you'll find most folks need Disney to push that any more.

Primarily, we are talking about breadth, and theming, in cohesive, moving attractions. How fast they move isn't really a barometer you'll find many even measure here when it comes to how much we like an attraction. If anything, if you really were measuring most of the crowd here, you'd find that the higher up on the "thrill" scale a ride goes actually can be a negative at some point.

That's why you see such praise of Universal from so many of us who are long time theme park fans. We became Disney fans because we love theme parks. Disney used to be the unquestionable king of theme park attractions. No one even approached their level of theming or immersion. Things that make you go WOW that have moving vehicles that don't really go faster than a brisk walk.

That's what Universal is doing now, just that they are doing it on more "thrilling" attractions (though since Kong is in a truck, that one seems a bit more family friendly). Personally, I wish Forbidden Journey hadn't been a Kuka - it limits the folks that can ride it. Or if there was a different riding option (another 2nd type of ride vehicle available). That said, the Kuka arm really is a great experience and very appropriate - though as the central attraction I've always thought it was more because of their 10-year exclusive contract they used it than anything else.

Gringotts is one of those...yeah, it's a thrill ride, but it's not crazy...I think most folks are able to handle it. There are non-coaster fans who can ride it. I think folks have more tolerance for a) the simulator aspect vs. strict coaster and b) when it really fits the theme so well.

So, TL;DR? It's not so much thrill rides (though we don't need everything "toddler appropriate" either) but HOW they do the rides that we are envious about right now.

 

[AEfx]

Too many shows? Seriously? It's a Studio theme park. And, how many is not too many? Let's see... shows... Indi, LMA, Beauty & Beast, Disney Jr and a special engagement of Frozen. So, five shows is too many?

I don't know about too many (though stuff like Idol was always dreck, didn't belong, and just was tolerated as the park so desperately needs people eaters), but I do wish that once there is more to do, they start scheduling more conveniently.

It happens to an extent at all the parks, but it's so terrible at DHS because of the amount of shows and the lack of other things to do. They schedule the shows to make them almost impossible to go from one to the other, on purpose, so you have to spend more time just "hanging out" and hopefully spending money. It's really annoying. They are staggered just wrong, LOL, and if they were staggered a bit more conveniently, you could do them a bit more efficiently and make better use of time.

If there were more things in to do in the park, they wouldn't need to artificially stretch the day like that as much as they do now (I hope, LOL).